Link to Part 2
 

Link to part 2.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/p...er-deck-baseba

Thank you Chris, I appreciate that. Being a very advanced amateur photographer, 40 years of concerts and wildlife, I am very visual. I tend to look at the whole, then break down the parts. I do legal research as a career and it also applies there. Just don't ask me to pick out a Mantle, Joe D. or Mays forgery. I will leave that to those of you that have done that for years. I will stick with Olympic signatures.

Thank you, Michael.

I can talk from the industry side on this issue a little bit as I was with Steiner Sports for nearly a decade. I can’t talk to Upper Decks policies regarding forgeries or infringements but saying Steiner Sports doesn’t care would be an overstatement and probably an oversimplification.

Actually, they do care, they are just limited in what they can do. From my time there running e-commerce, When blatant fakes were posted on eBay or other stores and brought to the attention of the right people, we flagged and contacted eBay to have items removed. As for websites we found selling fake or questionable items, C&D letters were drafted and sent to the sites owners. Unfortunately as you can imagine, there are literally millions of Steiner Sports items on the marketplace from all different eras, and it’s virtually impossible to go after every item and listing. It’s part of why each of these bigger companies always encourage you to buy direct or from a licensed retailer to ensure legitimacy.

I’m also talking to what I know from my time there, which ended in 2014, but when I was there we did in fact do what we could to stop blatant fakes and forgeries. Can’t really say what their practice is these days

Additionally, it’s a big piece of the reason why Steiner moved to individual numbered holograms, since the generic ones had a propensity to fall off over time and were easily swapped to a fake item unfortunately.

I’m also not saying that any of these companies do enough, but it’s a massive resource allocation from a personnel stand point.

Look at the recent influx of Tom Brady fake memorabilia with legitimate appearing Holograms. They even lifted real hologram IDs to use on fake product, as I said VERY difficult to chase it all down.

Sorry, Kevin, I am not letting them off the hook.

Chris, nor should you. I’m not defending their current lack of activity, I wish they did more to protect the brand and their customers. I’m just explaining how it worked when I was with them for any insight or provides as a whole.

I appreciate you explaining.

I have heard others make the point above and it is puzzling to me. Why bother even putting on a hologram if "the only safe place to buy" is direct from Steiner? What about all the legit resellers who purchase dealer bulk from Steiner? This screws them, doesn't it? And it doesn't say much about a collector's ability to sell down the road on the secondary market.

I know it is not easily solved and a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. But I believe these companies must be very aggressive in policing their brand. If the fake sticker sellers keep getting wiped out on ebay enough times, they will eventually move onto something else.

There more recent lack of any activity bothers me as well, while I was there we at least actively attempted to track these down and rid them from the industry the best we could. The reason they always say buy direct or from an authorized dealer that is purchasing at wholesale is for chain of custody on the item.

On the flip side I understand most people’s point of view of why bother if it’s technically meaningless. There is no perfect answer as we all know their are plenty of unscrupulous people out there looking for a way to make easy money and take advantage of the trust behind a reputable COA. Unfortunately there is no easy fix, short of holograms that ALSO match to pictures of the exact item online.

Thank you, Kevin, I appreciate that.

I agree with Steve.

I just don't get it.

Aside from their "authentic" items being over-priced, I'm turned of by their "turn-the-other-way" attitude.

Forged Sandy Koufax 2000 SP Authentic Chirography
 

This is a no-brainer Sandy Koufax forgery.

The card stock does not look correct.

The same sellers who have been listing and selling those forged Jeter counterfeit cards, have also been selling these like hotcakes.

This is listed on Ebay now.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sandy-Koufa...7ea7%7Ciid%3A1




Attachment 348921

This forged Koufax card is listed by Ebay seller Lyonhrt7777 who is one of those sellers who sold the Jeter forgeries like they were coming off an assembly line.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-SP-AUT...4AAOSwykpchG26



Attachment 348924

Sold by Ebay seller tntnorthnj (who has sold quite a few of these).

Koufax is forged.


Attachment 348988


Card is counterfeit. The "Sandy Koufax" should be farther away from the border of the card. Grainy-looking card.



Attachment 348989

Ebay had a department consisting of volunteers to police the autograph market, some are members here.
They disbanded the group, along with John Gonzalez an eBay employee, because the group was doing its work very well and removing many bogus items. That was costing eBay too much money :(

For sure!!!!

By the way, I have one of those forged/counterfeit Sandy Koufax cards coming to me.

Ebay Seller Probstein123 Forged Counterfeit Sandy Koufax
 

This is exactly what I thought would happen....

When buyers of the forged/counterfeit Sandy Koufax 2000 SP Authentic cards discover what they really own they will consign them to consignment specialists like Probstein123...

He recently sold one for $157.50.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-SP-Aut...p2047675.l2557




Attachment 349320

Attachment 349322

Have you spoken to the guys at probstein to let them know? They may need to know about all of the different forgeries out there so they can avoid them.

Adam, Probstein123 (Rick) has never responded to my emails over the years when I inform him of a forgery in his listings.

He sold one of these a couple of years ago.



https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ource=activity

Johnny Unitas 2001 Upper Deck Legends Ebay seller Tntnorthnj Lyonhrt7777
 

Same sellers as the Jeter and Koufax cards.

Just like the Koufax cards that came out of the 2000 SP Authentic product, which was a tough pull, same with the Johnny Unitas 2001 Upper Deck Legends card.



Attachment 349585

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Attachment 349589

I had heard that Upper Deck is not really concerned with the fake autograph side of it with these cards but the fact that someone (maybe in China) is replicating the whole card selling them wholesale to buyers in the USA with the hologram on it. And that may be what brings the Feds into this...

I already know that Upper Deck doesn't give a hoot, but I am hoping that we can trace the source of the counterfeit cards via certain means.

A member here told me that another member here on Net54 says "That Tntnorthnj is a good guy."

If that's the case, maybe that member can communicate with Tntnorthnj and I am sure he will absolutely want to assist the hobby in locating the source of these counterfeit cards.

Ebay seller lyonhrt7777 has sold nine (9) of these since mid January.

Ebay seller Tntnorthnj Derek Jeter Forged Counterfeit 1995 UD Card
 

Ebay seller Tntnorthnj sold more than a few of the below-style Derek Jeter forgery on one of those 1995 Upper Deck counterfeit cards.

Observe the raised "R" in "Jeter" on the front of the card.



Attachment 349598

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Attachment 349600

Attachment 349601

Most likely afraid they'll get caught again.

These cards each probably average around $100 each - Koufax, Kobe, Jeter, Unitas, Harper, etc. what’s the difference between printing the fake card and printing a $100 bill? Looks to me like it’s the same thing.

I agree!!!!

One of those sellers, in my opinion, must know the source of those cards.

Evidently TNTNorthnj doesn't know autographs.

Look at this train wreck listed by them.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/JOE-DIMAGGI...MAAOSwVHRcuonH



Attachment 350659

Sandy Koufax Forged/Counterfeit 2000 SP Authentic Blog
 

I just posted a blog on the Sandy Koufax Forged/Counterfeit "2000 SP Authentic" cards.

No coincidence that the all of the Ebay sellers (primarily TNTNorthNJ and Lyonhrt7777) of the forged/counterfeit cards stopped listing them after I posted my blog on the Jeter counterfeit/forged cards.


Attachment 350979

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Below is the link.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/p...ogPost:1337379

They're always "listening" trying to stay one step ahead... amazing the lengths people go to in order to SCAM innocent people from their hard earned money. Absolute scumbags.

Great effort Chris. The forger really had a problem with the letter 'R' - it's lower on 'Derek'.

It looks like a one-run card printing, as they never corrected their problems.

Thank you, Scott.

As someone who knows Derek's autograph, those are all train wrecks.

The forger(s) penned multiple forgery styles.



Attachment 351099

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eBay seller tram7777, check his other stuff... but he’s selling that Jeter card on this thread... I reported to eBay, but we know what that does

The Jersey guys put a lot of these out there over the past couple of years. This seller has all stuff that’s authenticated... and this card. He probably is another victim who bought something he thought was good. He probably doesn’t know.

TNT has these fakes up now

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Signat...gAAOSwDSpc5MFu

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Signat...MAAOSw7XFc5MFq

Ridiculous.... I wish someone would say something to Jeter about this. He may or may not know how bad it is.... But I’m sure he could do more than most people about this problem...

Ebay seller Tram7777 is also selling one of these.


Attachment 354009