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The problem is that the op failed to follow the 7 p’s: Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. The T206 Wagner and Joe Jackson gamer are holy grails. Probably a good first step is to contact Leon to see if it’s ok to post such a magnificent and expensive item on the board. Have him back you and verify the item and list properly with all the details. Then instead of questions and doubt he would be getting oohs and aahs and probably a couple of legit offers. You throw them out without doing your due diligence (or even a photo) and then tell some confusing story about the card being painted and cracked our of the holder and you get what you get. When you are representing items of such importance you have to bring your A-Game. Now would be a good time for a do-over. Try that again like you have a million dollar listing - because you do.
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This is a card that would do great in an auction, but selling it on BST might not be the right fit. But you never know.
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There's been a few legit T206 Wagners on this B/S/T for sale over the years.
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The ONLY way that card gets a 3 or 3.5 is if Mr. Magoo is the grader- careful, your credibility is in question....
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Good luck with the sale, but it doesn't help your credibility to tell people that card would grade a 3 or 4. You may just not know that you're wrong, but everyone else on the forum knows you are. If you haven't sent any cards in to PSA in a few years and looked at the grades you received, it's probably best not to make any claims about what grade this card would get.
There's exactly 0.00% chance this card could get a 2.5 or better with those corners, assuming there was no alteration. I would take the the under on 1.75 personally. It's a great card. No reason to lie or exaggerate to try and make it seem like more than it is. Edited to add that I probably went a little harder than I needed to in the above post. The OP sent me a PM and said he was just comparing his card to another PSA 2 and his card looked better. That is certainly possible. This card could not get above a "2" because of the corners, but it's still a nice looking card. I have a bunch of PSA 2s with rounded corners that look great. |
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Jason Mars?
Ok, after reading the whole thread, everyone thinks this is a legit listing. So, I withdraw, but leave posted, my comment. |
card was
restored......then unrestored....
I have been following this card for almost 5 years..... its been worked 2 x over...... :) |
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Then, unaltered. So, no, it has not been altered. It is alterless. Without alter. It has no alter. |
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To the OP, you should post a pic of yourself holding the card. It worked out well for this guy...
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My point exactly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Peter....
and all....
I have followed this card very close , like I said , for many years..... CARD SHOULD BE GRADED AS "ALTERED" reasoning: once a card has been tampered with (beside trimming) "altered" by human or otherwise....... first time: card had been "altered" the first time when extensive coloring had been added, and especially around the ear.....some "paper"(I believe) was added...and other major altering items performed on the card.... second time: card was "un altered" by "altering" it again being reversing the original restoration...... this is EXTREMELY unfortunate as now no one really knows truly how much this card has been worked on.... it breaks my heart to see a piece of history being tampered with extensively.... my friend and board member mike s has held this a few times... if you are going to drop serious cash on something like this, original in any condition , is the way to go....because no one truly knows what has been done and undone to this card... CARD IS 100 % ALTERED .....AUTHENTIC, BUT NONE THE LESS ALTERED |
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This is precisely the point I was making earlier. 100% altered. What once was done cannot be undone. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Yes......
basically an "attempted" reverse on another "franken wagner"
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:mad: leave these cards alone!:mad: |
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+1 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...rail-hits-ebay
Have look, at this from a few years ago. Been floating around for a few, it seems. Crack it out, and send to SGC and ask for a “A” designation. New card, new game....... |
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Unaltered and unrestored are not words I would use. It was altered to make it look better then altered again to attempt to make it look like it did before it was altered the first time. 2 times it was altered. |
Thanks for the link. This could be their problems in selling it. Back when the card was worth 150k they wanted 300k. When the card was worth 250k they wanted 450k. Now that the card is worth $420k (based on the December sale) they want $700k. The card is never for sale at current market value. Maybe in 5 years it will be worth $700k... and they’ll want $1.3m. Seems to be the mo.
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Does a realteror sell both heromes for sale and vacerant lots as well as Wagerners?
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Wagner
The card is what it is. The guy wants to sell it. I don't think it's fair for people to go back and forth and make all sorts of editorial comments on a BST post. No one in their right mind is going to spend 700k on something w/o doing some research. This would turn me off from wanting to sell a major piece on Net 54. Just my 2 cents.
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I just saw that there are already 12 pages on something that was posted today. It was a fun read. Any Baltimore News Ruth's laying around?
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Sarcasim is hard to do in print. Sorry.
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Ethan.....
totally get it.....
but, trying to sell something such a high profile card, putting on BST, and all the knowledge here.... just a no brainer that the seasoned collectors are going to put a seal of approval or not... whether this is frowned upon, if an investor or even a collector in our community pulls the trigger, its good to know that we care in our community and are proponents of full disclosure....we actually care... this is our net54 environment , if what we were stating was incorrect, than it would be addressed.... when collectors want to "slip" it into an sgc for a possible "Auth" instead of "altered"....there is a huge difference.... unknowing collectors might not have the "full scoop" if you will... I personally would take an auth card 10000 more than an altered one...... just made that decision on a cobb recently... once there is evidence of tampering(besides trimming)....its a game changer/ deal breaker for me, and a lot of others.... |
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So as a community here we are the closest thing to a police as there is. I have many numerous friends here and have actually met them at nationals/shows, etc. This place isn't the wild wild west and I'd hate to see it become that. So if someone posts bullshit on here...they're going to get called out on it. The BST isn't the best venue to sell high profile/mega high buck cards anyway! |
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What I meant I suppose...but didn't state very well is that this is the last place someone should come to try to pull the wool over over our eyes relating to vintage cards...the knowledge and experience here is unparalleled.
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nice card
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All-
I cannot confirm who the exact seller is, but I can confirm... About 6-7 years ago, I personally saw this card for sale in Gotta Have It's retail shop on East 57th St in NYC. I believe Pete was the shop owner, and selling the card for $350-400K. I saw it myself in their shop (during which time, Johnny [mrvster] & I conversed about it several times). The card was restored years prior, and sold in a Mastro's auction. Later, the restoration was "reversed", but since it is virtually impossible for someone (PSA, etc) to determine if 100% of anything added to the card was fully removed, it was labeled Altered. I cannot confirm who is posting this, but like I said, everything I said above it fact. |
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What? I never commented on what you believe the monetary value of any particular grade would be, nor am I contesting that...but ok. This is all over the place. In the early posts we are told the card sans the altering would be a 2. Then in the middle at some point your tune changed to it being a 4. And just now you are at “3 or 3.5 at least.”??? All very confusing. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Wagner
If someone is going to call "bullshit" on a card, then they should do exactly that...rather than nibbling around the edges. Being critical of what someone else has to offer is easy. We are all adults and able to make our own decisions.
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Am I the only one that has some questions about authenticity? The corner wear jumps out at me and maybe it's just poor image quality but the left side and lower left of the slab look ghosty(new technical term). OP - I am not a potential buyer, just someone breaking forum rules with my post. High res images will help your cause greatly. Good luck.
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That too... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
I agree with most of what you said but I sold a 52k card here and did quite well with it. I would do it again too if the opportunity arises. A great looking, real with no stories, 100k card would do fine here. ANd if it didn't sell there is no harm or fee...and if it does sell there is still no harm or fee. But no, it won't be totally the wild, wild west but at the same time everything that can be let go does get let go.
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And, the “World’s Most Patient Consignor In History Award” goes to....
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just so you know, the OP of this thread raised some eyebrows on blowout forums attempting to sell something shady, and then was PMing people claiming to be a consignor under the same name as their username and soliciting people to sell their cards through him. gotta dig up the thread now.
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And I certainly wouldn't consign a vintage baseball card holy grail with someone who specialized in music memorabilia!!!!! To me the fishy nature of this whole thing is why it's on the bst...otherwise it'd be in a major auction house. |
here's his other sales thread that got him banned on blowout. was very vague about the lot then solicited people over PM to consign. I personally wouldn't buy from him.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1272803 |
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Just wondering if anyone has called gottahaveit to see if this guy is legit? After reading this and the blowout forum - I would say that I wouldn’t put this guy in charge of selling anything... certainly not millions of dollars worth of memorabilia. Gottahaveit is currently hosting auctions and selling items for several hundred thousand dollars. I’m sure their sales people are highly knowledgeable professionals who have some experience. They certainly have the ability to sell this themselves and must have sports connections. If he works there they may want to know the reputation he is putting out there for the company.
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I see we are still waiting for the promised hi-res scans. #Yawn
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he did the same thing "I don't know how to post pictures lol" on here and on blowout. if you work for a consignor, you know how important pictures are help sell your item and to verify you have the item.
any 13 yr old can figure out how to post pictures on the internet, lame excuse. and don't try to sell a card worth over half a mil without researching how to do so professionally. I mean come on. not to mention, stories and values keep changing depending on how members challenge him on different details and aspects. |
And the responses on Blowout are all of the exact same tone as what he got here. There is the way a professional auction outfit would list something, and the way an ebay amateur would (on his Jordan lot) with all the "Unknown! Who knows what could be in this lot!" trying to get suckers to bite.
Smells nothing but fishy to me. If it is real then I feel sorry for whoever consigned a legit Wagner to that organization. |
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the Gretzky uncut sheet on listed on their facebook page is on ebay too but not on their website. ZERO seller feedback, only buyer. kinda strange an auction house related ebay seller hasn't sold anything at all. also would've figured that such a high profile item for sale like the Wagner, would've made some kind of press in the sports world....or at least be on the front page of their website. its just a small post on their instagram and facebook pages.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wayne-Gretz...t/372604933524 |
corners
I wouldn't purchase regular cards with these corners graded 1-1.5. There is no way on earth (though several are graded as such) that the paper disappears over the years, if so then why would so many look that much better get numbers. The ONLY way that this happens is that the card is beveled with a file to make each consistent (which is dumb) AND ALTERING or cut in a small stop sign shape and the edges conform to that over the years....none in my collection
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Post 19
, the reason we have had the card for so long is because we have not been trying to shop it. Again, we had a retail store gottahaveit! and the card was perfect for eye candy, we also went to a lot of shows. After 25 years, the retail store had to be closed so now we are trying to activity shop it. |
Post 21
The card is under consignment yes, as we know a lot of people and for the right price we have some amazing items that the same guy would sell. If I were Leon I would consider following Blowout, at this point. |
How about the statement that: “ The owner is one of the best experts in Sports in the world.” There is NO WAY that one of the “best experts” would not be known by at least a few of the guys on this forum. Perhaps he can give us a name. Though he didn’t say “expert in sports CARDS.” Interesting omission perhaps.
Peter, I’m with everything you’ve had to say on this topic. The story doesn’t match. But if they really have had this card consigned to them for all of these years, the consignor is getting royally screwed. The right thing to do here is to advise the rightful owner consign to REA or HA. They failed in their half-ass efforts to sell this person’s card. Of course, they would never do this, but it would be the right thing to do. We have broken every BST rule in the book. This may be a decent exception. |
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Ok, so the OP totally screwed up and the Wags has never been for sale. The OP is on very, very thin ice. There is a story....I don't think it was outright 100% fraud. It sounds like a casual conversation that the OP tried to make more out of it than there was.
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