You should go for it... YOLO! Hell, I’ll be your first customer and you give me a much deserved NM-MT 8. :D

vintage clout
 

he chose not to read the thread, because he said not concerned after operation dug out......that must have cleaned out all the fraud, and the auto market recovered.....

I know the auto market won't collapse because of that post alone......goes to show, some collectors would rather ignore the problem, than be part of the solution..poster didn't even want to read the thread...didn't even want to attempt to brainstorm a solution..so they will blindly collect the autos anyway....ignorance is bliss.....just blindly accept what the opinion of the tpg is...

of course there are problems detecting trimmed cards....some probably are a little tough to detect.....

BUT JUST ADMIT IT!


then let's come up with solutions...

we are the customers and should demand better service....

like more provenance or extra graders on the piece/card...ect....

demand better service so shit like this is reduced even more ....both with autos and regular cards....

the hardcore auto collectors are definitely not going to want to hear a certain percentage of the collection is fake....I know I wouldn't want to think that if I was very heavily vested in autos....

fact is, just to easy to copy and fake autos and it was proven again on a fairly large scale....

I'm sure that was just the tip of the ice berg!! '33 goudeys 52 topps ect ect...

very sad that some don't want to be part of the solution, bury their heads in the sand, and accept such huge blunders WHICH COULD EASILY be avoided...


vintageclout, use some clout if you are a "big baller" auto guy and demand better standards....

since you are in a "big league" auto collector and I am not.....you obviously are super wise:D

Jason.....
 

that Mantle is sweet! congrats!

I really have been interested in starting a grading company for many years....

I had a lot of expert collectors on board....(from here)

I wanted to start one because there was some fraud from that guy pat when he tried to pass off a brown old mill printer scrap and got it into an sgc holder....


I had a similar scare and made sure all my scraps were legit....it made me realize how important it was to make sure my cards were legit.....



my grading company idea I was working on 5 years ago:

I wanted to call my company "T206 Experts"

and I had many on board(including Erick summers who designed a slab/flip for me)

I had many ideas......one was to assemble actual hobby experts and veteran collectors, who would collaborate and actually have multiple graders on each card.....to document each card......get a scan and data base....and try to reduce any fraud on T206....especially after that pat scrap scare...


Some of my "board of experts" included - Chris B, Steve B, Erick S, Tim C, Jim R, Ted, Adam, Pete, Jantz, Hank L , just to name a few....and about 30 or more heavy hitters and computer/resolution / print experts/hobby veterans./ ect.........true collectors and experts who would have had 1000 years of cumulative experience......and 90% were being recruited by me from this board...


each card , basically, I wanted a group opinion on each......report cards.....confidence of graders.......ect.....many cool ideas and concepts to reduce any type of fraud when it came to T206 especially scraps....

who knows, maybe I will still persue this in the future....


point being- WE NEED BETTER GRADING STANDARDS!!!


especially when it comes to fraud like these autos....


similar to my grading company idea of T206 experts, similar could be done with an "auto" division of a grading company.....put more graders on the cards collaboratively !!!reduce the error rate.....gaurentee what you grade, or don't slab it!!! give confidence reports...ect...ect


there are literally hundreds of ideas to reduce this kind of fraud...


but having these standards will cost more money......let's face it, no matter how many safety checks, graders ect, mistakes will get by, but HELL, at least start putting more systems in place and demand better standards from the grading companies to reduce this type of fraud:)

even if some more cost is absorbed by the consumer, if the standards are better, more confidence, better quality, more value......


the first step is to keep these problems in the fore front.....and continually strive to improve grading standards to reduce these types of nightmares to zero defects:D or at least as close to zero as possible....


:)

That’s a very revealing and scary article. A quote: “The agency estimates that as much as 90% of the sports collectibles market is bogus...”

Wow!!!!

Sounds like an amazing amount of collaborative thought went into it. That’s one of the many upsides of this hobby. There are WAY more folks interested in improving the integrity of the hobby than there are assholes who are perfectly content to destroy it so long as they make their fortune via fakes and forgeries. We just have to continue doing exactly what this community has done for years— outing them and striving to right the ship. Won’t happen overnight, but as long as we stay vigilant and determined, we’ll beat the bastards!

And regarding my Mantle, the old man would roll over if he knew the ONLY material possession he cared about doesn’t even pass the smell test by the most “respected” grading company in the industry. I remember him removing it from his safe from time to time. He’d gaze at in awe and tell me stories about the amazing Mick he watched play when he was a kid. He made me promise not to tell anyone he had a “mint Mickey Mantle” because he was afraid someone would come in and steal it. He was absolutely convinced it would be worth a million bucks someday...LOL. Not in an Authentic holder, dad. Sorry ��

Jason....
 

Thanks so much.......I can't agree with you more!
absolutely spot on;)


That Mantle does look "pack fresh".......I can see why your dad loved it so much.....very touching story ......please don't ever sell or trade that card!

it will get justice one day......if I had my grading company going and we expanded into other cards, I would make sure that card got the grade it deserves....

a card like that needs provenance.....back story......it should all come with the card.....then have the extensive panel research the card, and get it in the right holder.....a report.....photos....ect.....

it would be sweet to have almost like a mini bio to accompany a card...like a "write up" from you, with your auto, drivers lics, ect.....some kind of back story....documentation, photo.....attach this to the report and flip/cert number with the proper grade.....


your dad is smiling still:) keep that card in the family....if I ever get a grading company one day, your card will be #1 on my list;)

ALMOST LIKE A JUSTICE FOR CARDS!:D

Btw....
 

looking at your card more, it is an absolute blazer! that should be a solid 8 all day, maybe better....

the gloss is amazing from the scan:eek:

Thanks brother. That means more than you know. This discussion got me thinking, and I wonder if the TPG’s look at your submission history before grading your new submission. I can envision a situation where this smoking hot, potentially $50k card arrives. They say “wow! This is too good to be true”. So they pull my account history up and see that I’ve submitted nothing but $500 to $1000 cards over the last decade. But now he has this five-figure gem? Yeah right dude. You either hit the lotto or trimmed a mid-grade card. Too good to be true considering the low POP on high-grade ‘53 Mantles, so no need to go through the motions with this one.... TRIMMED!!

What sucks too is I was so convinced it’s legit that I put a declared a value of $24k on the sub form. Wanted to do the right thing and pay what is right to get it slabbed. If I had even the slightest fear that it was trimmed I would have declared a value of $500 and paid a minimal grading fee. So not only did it come back without a numerical grade, I paid $900 to have it deemed worthless!!!

Jason....
 

you are a smart and honest dude....you are the kind of collector that improves our hobby........your dad was proud of that card, and every right he should be! it is an absolute beauty and I can see why he kept it locked up.......2 semi soft top corners would keep it from a 9....id have to see the back....and see the card in person, but if your dad pulled that from a pack and kept it locked up, no WAY is it trimmed(only from the factory).....

that card is actually PRICELESS - being your dads pride and joy.....do not ever let that go, trust me:)

it will get the proper grade one day.......especially if I had ever started a grading company.....I would take all factors into account before "rendering" a decision.....some fact cut cards prob look "trimmed" just from production.....I'm sure it's possible....some graders just need to evaluate cards a little better, get more opinions from other experts or even other companies, put more time on a card , especially at a $900.00 PRICE TAG:eek:

what a "rip off".....think about this, HOW CAN YOU DECLARE THE VALUE-declared value is subjective and just really not measurable.... by just guessing????you can't because they haven't assigned a grade!!:eek: how corrupt....that doesn't seem right???? also, if they deem the card "AUTH" then waive the fee!!! you already got screwed , I am sure, as soon as you wrote the check and submitted it unfortunately....:eek: charge a "nominal fee" if card fails the inspection basically.....card was worth $25 k to you if it was graded 9 or a 10 or more...

it's so wrong on so many levels.....

I read that article again by IRV.....wow:eek:


Jason- beautiful, priceless card:)

Okay, I don’t think I said whole in my original post. I didn’t read the WHOLE thread! I stopped early on because it just started to get into bickering back and forth and THAT’S what I was ignoring 😊 The topic itself is interesting! I actually posed the same question over on SCN, but I think it got overlooked haha I’m 24 and started collecting around 17 or so. I wasn’t really around for the whole Operation Bullpen fiasco. I don’t know what autograph collecting was like before that happened, and I don’t know the full effect it had on the hobby shortly after. That was actually part of the question I asked on SCN. In present day, autographs still seem to be widely collected from my limited point of view, which is why I said if that couldn’t stop people from buying autographs then I’m sure this won’t affect it much at all! I’d be interested to hear what others experiences were surrounding that.

I’ll preface this by saying I don’t submit too many autographs to TPG’s as I usually just get them at shows or send to private signings. As for that side of things, I think it would be cool to have a camera at every signing table and you get a picture of your item being signed right then and there and they just build that cost into the price of the autograph. I figure people are already spending hundreds of dollars on a single auto, so what’s $10 or $20 more 🤷🏻*♂️ Or have people pay extra for it. Idk! I haven’t done any analysis on it haha I’d personally like to see it be a requirement. This would be nice for cards because I usually get rookie cards signed and I don’t want a stinkin’ sticker on the back of it! It’d be cool if there was some sort of invisible ink to put on cards that won’t ruin them too. Plus, it’ll help eliminate the cases of people bringing up random items that they brought from home to get stickered. Maybe even put a GoPro on the head of the athlete signing and you get the video of the encounter too (half joking 😊).

I don’t know much about the current process they have when analyzing the autographs or who is doing it when people send in for review, but I think having multiple people look at it would be great because I know sometimes opinions can differ. Again, probably not cost effective, so raise the price! I’d rather them raise the prices to have more eyes look at it and be as accurate as possible than being inexpensive, quick, and sloppy. A little transparency would be nice too. Perhaps saying who it is that reviewed the autograph.

Thanks brother. That means more than you know. This discussion got me thinking, and I wonder if the TPG’s look at your submission history before grading your new submission. I can envision a situation where this smoking hot, potentially $50k card arrives. They say “wow! This is too good to be true”. So they pull my account history up and see that I’ve submitted nothing but $500 to $1000 cards over the last decade. But now he has this five-figure gem? Yeah right dude. You either hit the lotto or trimmed a mid-grade card. Too good to be true considering the low POP on high-grade ‘53 Mantles, so no need to go through the motions with this one.... TRIMMED!!

What sucks too is I was so convinced it’s legit that I put a declared a value of $24k on the sub form. Wanted to do the right thing and pay what is right to get it slapped. If I had even the slightest fear that it was trimmed I would have declared a value of $500 and paid a minimal grading fee. So not only did it come back without a numerical grade, I paid $900 to have it deemed worthless!!!

Derek....
 

first of all....thanks for the post! I know sometimes we bicker here, but it's all for the good of our hobby.....we debate a lot on this board and a lot of positive does come out of it!

thanks for reading the whole post, because sorting through the crap(I never back down when right, and won't let other push me around or put me down:)), as I am no better than you even with your limited experience, you are quite wise already!


Your ideas are absolutely BRILLIANT! so simple, yet so effective!WOW

this is what I'm talking about.....the buzz phrase "moving forward", let's safeguard.....the photo opt at the signing is just AWESOME AWESOME IDEA! not sure why it's not offered already, it should be:)


I like the invisible ink, and ideas "outside the box" another catch phrase I hate:)


we live in a society of tech advances, need this to work for us, not against....

I'm sure new methods ect can be used in the future detecting fraud and a push should be for documentation and provenance

Jason.....
 

btw.....my mom passed two years ago.....I can't tell you how much I miss her, wordsjust can't describe......

she bought me an uncut sheet of 1982 topps from a shopping mall baseball card show in 1982....it has a cal ripken on it......I had it rolled up in a closet for years......I forgot about it almost.....has some damage now, but, by far, is my most cherished card / piece I own.....

it's the memory of us together in the mall and the time we spent together...


I wouldn't sell it trade it for anything, not even a wagner:)


brings a tear to my eye just typing this....

Jason, cherish that mantle like your dad:)