I hope they are not just changing the label alone. I hope they introduce a new holder as well. Just changing the label doesn't do anything. They have done this several times already.

Will PSA continue to sell for a premium to SGC ? Or will these new changes help their product sell on par with PSA.

My guess is if PSA even remotely saw SGC as a threat, they would have just bought them by now.

FYI...

I got my submission back today, and they came with the old flips. So I'm happy... :)

Mine too!

And my guess is PSA thinks competition is good. I doubt they would buy SGC regardless of the situation. But who knows? I know I need to send in another submission to SGC soon to keep my 18 yrs streak going. The only grader for me is SGC.....My one submission to PSA sucked and I doubt I go back to them to submit. I will still have cards in their holders but SGC gets my business for being the most accurate (not perfect) graders. BVG is a close second for me. If Beckett did a better job marketing their vintage they might get the prices they deserve. Until then SGC is my main choice. It sounds like the old flips are staying for now, which is a good thing for many. For me, flips aren't that important.

Submission back today. Old label as is tradition. All good!

This may have been addressed---if so I just missed it, but is the actual size/ dimensions of their slab going to remain the same?

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The biggest change to card grading will be when PSA, SGC, BGS, or whoever decides to implement AI for grading. When you remove human subjectivity from the process, it will be (in theory) as consistent as it gets. While it would potentially improve the turnaround times and increase throughput, there are potential downsides too. At that point, I doubt there would be nearly as many crossover attempts.

Really? Holy cow....PSA will always command a premium over SGC...Prewar cards like T206s, not even close....

Seems like they demand a premium in all their cards. People are addicted to their registry and pop report.

Interesting, coming from you Leon. I have always written off vintage BVG stuff because I've heard so many concerns about grading trimmed cards or overgrading in general. I may rethink my position. I've always thought SGC is more consistent, even though PSA commands an obvious premium. For whatever reason, PSA has tightened up their grades significantly. In many cases, older flips would grade at least a full point lower than even 5 years ago.

Officially arrived.
 

Well I guess it's official.

The holder looks the same, which is fine with me.

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Saw them at the National today. I actually like the look. I know that puts me in the minority but I like them.

I like it look better than the previous one. but still wish they use better material like beckett, and maybe security sticker like psa

Impressive

Size of the Number Grade
 

The picture in a previous post doesn't give perspective on how large the number grade is on the flip. SGC is doing a lot of things right by collectors with the changes they are making, but the size of the number grade on the flip overshadows the card underneath. The close to uniform feedback I heard from other hobby collectors was that the size of the number grade should be reduced significantly to keep the focus on the card itself and not cheapen the look of the flip. I'm in that camp!

Why are there two grades next to the 4.5 Joe Jackson? And neither are a 4.5, but instead would be 3 and 5.5?

Just a guess here, but a 4 is considered VG-EX, so a 4.5 would be VG-EX+. SGC just divided the "VG-EX+" into those 2 little hexagons.


I am disappointed that the SGC holder is the same and that the edge seal was not improved to be more tamper evident.

Awful look

I had an opportunity to check out the new changes today at the showroom setup. I was also told by a representative that new holders are coming “soon", and that this is phase 1 of 3 of things to expect.

Ah, nice. Thanks!

Is the gold chipped along the top left of that SGC Mint 9 Ramly? I do like that they have labeled it sheet cut. Wonder what the value difference between that card and a PSA 9 would be.

Agreed.

Chuck,

Haven't really paid attention. Is this for certain? They are using the same
type holder with seal?

Not a fan of big label numbers either, but this is a massive upgrade. The old labels were probably the worst in the industry. They finally have a 21st century look.

I saw a Wagner SGC 4 with the new flip and it looked fantastic. The non-colored flip (instead of red or green) allows the card to dominate instead of a clash of colors getting in the way. The size of the number grade is a little large but not a big deal to me. I much prefer the new grading scale, as well as all the technological advancements, available scans, ability to make offers, reduction of the human element, etc. SGC's product is far superior and better looking to PSA's at this point; they will need to fix their registry to compete and, therefore, get higher returns on registry-type cards.

As for new holders, I am told they are being worked on. What I was happy to see was real innovation at SGC, which is unlike anything I've seen in the TPG industry in years if ever. I suspect this will push PSA to get off their asses in both the quality of their product and service, all good things to happen.

Bottom line is that I'll be sending in all of my high-value cards/postcards to SGC to be reholdered shortly.

As of right now there are, Tony. According to Brian, though, in post #102, SGC is working on a new holder to be released later on.

Thanks!
 

Chuck,

Thanks. Hope it works out. I would eventually update some stuff into
the new holders and new flip. At first glance, I like them.

Even though I am not a SGC customer, it is good to see them trying to better their business model and products. Long overdue, in my opinion.

It is amazing to me, that after all these years, a person has no way to verify a SGC serial on the website. That doesn't sit well with me.

I am very curious as to how all of this is going to play out. With the exception of a couple of times during my first lifetime as a collector in the late 1990s-early 2000s when I submitted a few cards to PSA, I have only submitted to SGC. It has been a few years since I even did that. Lately, I have considered sending a few to SGC, but all this makes me ponder exactly where this will all end. I have a couple of football sets which are almost 100% SGC graded. I could live with the flips being different. However, if the holders themselves change in a substantial way and they don't resemble the SGC holders the rest of my sets reside in, I'm not sure that I would feel very good about it.

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hot off the press
 

from the SGC display at the National:

Attachment 324560

Attachment 324561

dont know why they rotated...

Maybe it's just the pic, but those holders look different, almost a translucent quality? Unless I am missing it, I don't see the black SGC gasket??

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Gasket is definitely there.

What are the show specials for this weekend at the National?

Within a month it will look normal, I predict. It only jumps out at people now because they aren't used to it.

I see the certs no longer have the dash and three numbers after what used to be the submission number, representing the cards within the submission. Is there somewhere they explain the change in cert. numbers?

So does this mean if you submit an existing SGC card to get reholdered, you’re exposed to the risk of it coming back labeled as “sheet cut”? Seems that’s what happened with the T204 Johnson - was previously a “clean” SGC 96 in the old holder.

The world knew those were sheet cut anyhow, from a write up in REA and probably otherwise.

Yeah, they said they randomized them for greater privacy.

The sequential cert and submission numbers made it very easy to ID bad card batches, you no longer have that tool to weed out some problematic cards.

I think the question is how they're going to square it with the current listing, both in the registry and pop report.
1) If they do a straight reholder, will the new flip have a new cert number?
2) Will it if they do a review submission where the card is being regraded?
3) Can both number types live together in harmony in their database?

PSA style obfuscation?

Nothing like making your business stand out by combining the worst features of your competitors.

excellent point

Between this random number generator

Refusing to honor old label grades


Sudden attention to centering


The sweet embrace if death wont be long now. Since psa has failed any star cards and vintage signed cards, and SGC has added Phil Marks, I'll continue to send them signed cards, but that where it ends for me. On a recent sub they told me a psa 7 o/c equates to an SGC 2! The only saving grace from SGC was an accurate grade where anyone can judge centering, now that is out the window.

Anyone have more pics of mantle 52 topps sgc 9 or t206 Wagner sgc 4?

My camera phone is not the best, and the cards were behind glass with bright LED lighting which screwed up the colors, but I had to snap some shots of these cards.

https://i.imgur.com/hyExj6j.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5cFtYUC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EHzcuhi.jpg

Beautiful pics thank you!:)

I personally like the flips, they look so much more modern than the old when comparing side by side.

Please tell me why anyone would want a modern flip with a prewar card?

I just do not understand this.

SGC needs a graphic design person with real creative ability.

I think they blew it again....

Just one mans opinion....

Well , we all have needs....
 

.."
Please tell me why anyone would want a modern flip with a prewar card?

I just do not understand this.

SGC needs a graphic design person with real creative ability. "


__________________
There are some things which cannot be learned quickly, and time, which is all we have, must be payed heavily for there acguiring....They are the very simplest things and because it takes a mans life to know them the little new that each man gets from life is very costly and the only heritage he has to leave............E. Hemmingway


....And Poppa Hemmingway really really needs a proofreader...


...

It looks like most on the board like their new flip and system. Maybe they will become the new TPG number 1.

As a graphic designer, the flips from all the TPG's get under my skin for their bad design. Many years ago I was brought in by GAI to create some designs for a high-end flip and slab that complimented the beautiful cards that they encapsulated. I had to work within the limitations of the equipment that made the flips and other tough restrictions, but I think the designs were able to add a touch of style and class that went well with the expensive cards they housed.

This was just before the company began their spiral, and my designs never went into production. But it shows that at least one TPG cared enough to try to make their flips aesthetically pleasing.

When I get a card that is in a slab, the first thing I do is break it open and ditch the flip. I don't want anything so badly designed to be near something as beautiful as a Diamond Star or Goudey.

I got a few autographed card slabbed at the National, so I figured I'd share the new container. It will take some getting used to, but I'm generally a fan. I actually picked SGC for this card because I liked how the black label looked with the black background.

Were they trimmed with "BAT wings"?

I kid

After what was said on the floor of National I don’t think they have enough patches to plug the holes in their boat now.

Their National preparation was very, very disappointing. However, you're discounting something that was said a lot on the floor: their customer service was still excellent. I submitted some cards on Saturday, and despite internet problems, Andy was tremendous. I'm neutral on the flips. The black gasket is still the best part about their slabs, and their customer service is excellent. I will continue to use SGC based on those two factors, and believe they will be able to right the ship after a shaky (to say the least) National.

How were the submission lines at the three TPGs? Looks like PSA's new streamlined process was nice and saved people a bunch of time.

They will be using computers to grade cards, thereby removing the uncertainty that exists when humans are involved, i.e. the garbage grading from PSA. They will have scans of all cards graded which will be available to anyone online. They will have the ability to make offers on any card graded, again available to anyone online. Their customer service blows away PSA. Their slab is head and shoulders better looking than PSA's. Oh - but PSA has the Registry which causes higher resale value on certain issues. I'm sure SGC has no chance in such a marketplace.

What was said in the floor of the National?

+1 What was said at The National.

Truth! I only buy pricing errors

What was said at the national, and how many holes in the boat are we talking about?

Are we talking....Titanic?

I don't know what was said but they were basically having technical issues the whole show. I was lucky enough that my submission somehow got through, albeit it took 2.5 days.

"Skynet had become self aware"

It has to start somewhere...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b1bf35838d.jpg

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The talk on the floor was how floored (pun intended) people were at how ill-prepared SGC seemed to be. I think the technology issues were forgiven, but the lack of information being provided regarding their big changes was a bit eye-opening.

The numbering on the new SGC flips are so large they are almost comical. It seriously looks like the person designing the flips was a guy in his eighties who got sick of putting on his reading glasses.

And why get rid of the classic green? That was SGC's identity. I'll admit the black looks good, but that throws off the uniformity of literally millions of SGC flips over the last 20 years.

Collectors are OCD and these new black borders with the giant numbers stick out like a sore thumb compared to the old flips in people's collections.

My two cents. Go back to green. Keep the single digit numbering system but decrease the font size. And maybe increase security, like stronger plastic casing and some added security feature like a hologram on the flip.

I love SGC. I've only submitted to them, but these new changes are no bueno.

Is this confirmed? are they really going to use computers to grade cards? :eek:

Custom gaskets??
 

Are they going to continue to custom cut the inter gaskets? I hate the baggies PSA uses, and I'd be disappointed if they went that way. The clean look SGC's gasket provided was a big reason i prefer them. Note: being a low end collector, I really use these grading companies for authentication purposes.

This times about 1 million.

1. They designed a plan for submissions to be handled via computer and didn't think to check if there was wi-fi in the building. Now you can blame that on the I-X center I suppose but as someone who works in software development it is akin to being a marathon runner who forgets to tie their shoes and blames the shoe when they trip and fall.

2. They took on-site submissions for the entire show even after it became clear that they had literally no chance of fulfilling the time promises they were making

3. Every time you would go to check on an order, SGC would appease you by saying "check back in an hour or two". Finally I said to a rep that this was the fourth time I heard this and I wanted to just know the truth. I was told that yeah, tomorrow afternoon would be the best time to check.

4. They changed what they do and do not grade without informing the customer. For example, I know of a collector who was trying to submit some tickets for grading. He spent 20 minutes entering them into the new computer system, and asked for help finalizing the transaction. Someone comes up to him and says "Oh - we dont do tickets any longer"

5. Despite all of the computer problems, they had no problem getting their billing invoices processed. I had a charge to my CC before I had my cards back to me. They also charged me for same day service when it took me 3 days to get my stuff back

I like SGC and want them to work, but at this point I can't see using them again. I spent over 2 hours total at the show running to check on my cards and waiting for information. They need to get their shit together, and fast.

If I were Dave Forman I would personally spend this week calling everyone who submitted for on-site grading and apologize for their experience. It was beyond awful for the customer.

Chris Bland

I can’t imagine them changing that. I agree that the custom cuts and black background are what make SGC’s presentation the best.

No this is Kabookie Theater, that’s a couple years down the road.

++1...also...they had a large display close to PSA with high end items graded in the new holder and videos playing but their submission area was somewhere else and was tiny and had no "waiting" area...not that their lines compared to PSA...but still? I was not impressed with their software either as I couldn't find some of my cards using their search feature. For now SGC is still my choice...but they really need to get more professional.

Ability to make an offer on any card that was graded? Seems to me they took some transparency away but using random numbers for certs, but they 100% know, or will know, who submitted what when it comes time to make an offer. It sounded like a great idea at first.

Out of curiosity since I am a bit out of the loop: Is SGC making the offer, or are they simply connecting buyers to sellers?

Did they add the tagline "actively seeking submissions"?

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