Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768202)

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

Originally Posted by Fballguy (Post 1768238)

Don't believe this has been pointed out, but you can end an auction that has bids, so the non-shilling claim seems a little hard to believe.

Not that it wasn't hard to believe in the context of this listing to begin with.

That he tries to portray himself as a con man with standards (I wouldn't shill bid!) leads me to believe he's not coming completely clean and would probably be hard to trust at any point in the future.

On a side note...I don't believe this is really a high schooler. I think he/she is trying to catfish us.

Originally Posted by njdunkin1 (Post 1767967)

Net54 members and all,


Before I communicate the following words, I wanted to let you know that this is NJ Dunkin, posting regarding a mistake I made a few weeks’ past. I made some counterfeit T206 reproductions to sell on eBay, but instead of making clear that these were fakes, I made the area of authenticity very gray. I recognize this as immoral, deceptive, and misleading.

Here is a link to one of the four auctions in question:

Abbatchio Uzit

I seek forgiveness for three things:
1) My actions were wrong. I recognize this and apologize for it.
2) I was confronted about this on Facebook (Tobacco Row) and stretched the truth in order to paint myself in a better light. I seek forgiveness for deceiving Facebook and board members alike.
3) I should have posted this publicly as soon as it happened, yet I delayed in posting to try and preserve my self-image and reputation.

I realize that this whole situation and how I handled it was wrong, and that I have no excuse for my actions.

I have reserved post #2 for the full details of the story. I wrote this out about a week ago. The details of the story below are the truth, but you do not have to read them or even read further than this sentence. I know the last thing I deserve is your forgiveness, but I felt led to communicate this to you knowing that it was wrong to carry on without associating myself publicly with my actions.

Thank you to the board and Facebook members for the encouragement to take this step.

Noah "NJ" Dunkin

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1768282)

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1768282)

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

Originally Posted by mechanicalman (Post 1768274)

I think this situation just shows that nothing good happens when high school boys hang out on Internet chat boards with mostly middle-age adult males. ;)

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1768276)

What’s to stop him from mastering his skills? Going to other Facebook/forums ?
Making more FAKE ebay accounts with the intention of selling fakes and shilling them? Making or already has made a fake net54 user name?

Answer: NOTHING!!!

This is the birth of a card con artist. He’ll be around for years.

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1768282)

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

Originally Posted by Paul S (Post 1768291)

Sure he's in HS. He takes printshop as an elective:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 (Post 1768216)

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn :)

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 1768306)

Question: If he had walked into a card show and stolen some cards from a table would you be OK with having him here again, ever? If the answer is "no" then I don't think he should be allowed back. There are enough crooks in the hobby already; we don't need a trainee-crook.

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1768276)

What’s to stop him from mastering his skills? Going to other Facebook/forums ?
Making more FAKE ebay accounts with the intention of selling fakes and shilling them? Making or already has made a fake net54 user name?

Answer: NOTHING!!!

This is the birth of a card con artist. He’ll be around for years.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 1768001)

LOl. Indeed. What balls. How dare you rip me off when I'm trying to rip you off.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1768326)

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide (Post 1768333)

~cough~candiman~cough~

Originally Posted by griffon512 (Post 1768312)

I completely agree. Even if he is young (and I very much doubt he is younger than 20 based upon reading his words in this thread) he pursued an extended con. If someone makes a lot of mistakes when they are young that primarily screws up their own life (drugs, alcohol, etc.), I'm sympathetic. If the focus is on damaging someone's else life that's a whole different ballgame in my book. Plus I'm really tired of those that follow this pattern:

1) Sell yourself as an extremely devout Christian do-gooder by saying things like "all blessings to Jesus, our Lord and savior, etc."

2) Do a series of things over a long period of time deliberately damaging other peoples' lives.

3) Once caught (not before then), ask or expect to be vindicated though a bunch of superficial mea culpas.

I don't buy it, and I don't see that as being harsh or overly punitive. I see it as being a realist. If he earnestly wants to compensate for conning people he can undertake his own self-exile away from this Board/hobby. We are all full up on bad actors in this hobby. There is no need for another casting call in a year.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768218)

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1768282)

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1767982)

Bye Felicia

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1768326)

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 1768438)

What a tremendously sad situation. With so much fraud and deceit, the hobby is getting harder to enjoy.

I remember when the cards were the focal point of collecting. Now, it seems like the scammers and BS stories get a disproportionate amount of the attention and headlines.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768474)

I think that someone who commits fraud, especially against other members should be banned for life from the board. By letting him back after a year or whatever shows that we forgive him for ripping us off. If somebody tries to hurt or rip me off, I cut off all ties with them forever. We do not need these people in the hobby and need to send a strong message to them.

Banning somebody from the board is only part of the solution. He will still be able to sell stuff on eBay and rip off unsuspecting people. eBay will still allow this type of behavior.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768475)

We have a year to think about reinstatement. If the time comes (and after age verification) this might be the first poll to see if someone gets reinstated. :cool: There doesn't seem to be a unanimous thinking on it?

PS. I wish the threads showing how there IS TODAY millions (I doubt that is an exaggeration) of dollars of fraud going on, got as much attention. Sigh.....

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768478)

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768478)

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768485)

But a poll on this one could be interesting.

Originally Posted by commishbob (Post 1768497)

Maybe "fraud related" threads could be placed in their own forum for search/posterity purposes. Down by the Water Cooler forums or below the testing forum maybe. Other card forums have a 'bad trader' section so perhaps this is something to consider. OTOH cluttering up the site with additional forums may not be desirable. Just thinking out loud here as it were.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768504)

I still think that this main forum would be the best place to discuss it. Having it buried in another section might make it difficult to find.
But the idea of having a "fraud related" thread can list sellers and buyers who have done wrong in the business. Who to watch out for. I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1768509)

My opinion is that if he can prove he's a high school teen, then he should serve his 1 year sentence and be re-instated with limited access to the BST (as a buyer only, not a seller - at least not for a while). We should just chalk it up as being young, irresponsible and immature. That's assuming Leon talks to him and gets the feeling that he's truly sorry.

On another note, I think banning someone for being a neo-Nazi is far worse than being a neo-Nazi. Since when does Net54 moderators intrude in people's personal lives and what they do outside the boards as long as the propaganda is not being espoused on the boards? I don't care what someone does outside the boards as long as they have positive things to contribute to the boards. I don't care if they're a member of the KKK, BLM, what political party they belong to, their religion or whatever. Why is any of that important to board membership (again as long as they're not espousing their views on the board)? Very, very intrusive. Worse than gov't intrusion in my opinion. Guess that's what America is coming to.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768510)

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768510)

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768520)

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I do care. If there is a confirmed skinhead, KKK member or worse on this board, and I find out, they won't be here. And if anyone doesn't like it they can pound sand.
BTW, I actually see the point being made concerning interfering in private lives. But this is a private board and it's not going to cater to those extreme haters, even if they don't espouse their hate on the board, while the current management is in place. ;)

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1768551)

The question then becomes where do you draw the line(s) and what's too extreme left and what's too extreme right?

As an odd personal experience/example, one of the first online groups I joined was an AOL chat board about listening to shortwave radio.

Turns out one member was a well known - like was on TV here in the US- racist. Except he was just a really mellow one, didn't come across as hateful, didn't express a wish for violence on anyone, just didn't want to live next door to anyone who wasn't like him. (Something I totally disagree with and find really undesirable even the relaxed way he expressed it) He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all.

Most of us just wanted them both to stfu and get back to discussing what weird radio stations were on what frequency....


So which would get banned? The mellow A-Hole, or the violence promoting guy who was probably ok in real life?

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768565)

I feel it is my duty to try to provide a relaxing, peaceful and friendly environment around here. The fact that there could be some who espouse hatred being in those groups, makes it uncomfortable for many members including myself. If someone keeps their views to themself, and they aren't running for the Grand KKK dude, then they probably wouldn't even be known about on this forum. I think it comes down to who we want to associate with. I firmly believe the great majority here don't want to associate with hate mongers. This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations. I can't imagine trying to do a deal with a known skinhead or Natzi on the BST, therefore it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51 (Post 1768449)

... however, if he’s as young as he says he is, I think he can learn from this and be a good fellow young member of the card collecting community down the road. I’d give him another chance

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768504)

… I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1768551)

… He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all…

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768485)

As for one strike and you are out, I agree if there is fraud where someone is currently financially harmed. If there is no financial harm I am more lenient. But a poll on this one could be interesting.

Originally Posted by Stampsfan (Post 1768589)

Given the direction this thread has taken, I feel I have to say up front that the following comments are made tongue in cheek. Cynical and self deprecating humor is something I embrace and enjoy.


Perhaps he counts his age the same way some Domincan baseball players do when trying to land a professional contract. "Hey, that kid in the Little League World Series has a beard..."


How about a list of eBay buyers who have 100% feedback and never renege on payment?
Wait, perhaps that may be too short a thread.


I think it's awful and hateful when people attach stereotypes to a group of individuals...
;)

Originally Posted by TobaccoKing4 (Post 1768508)

Maybe there should be a pinned thread that lists people that have been found to be scamming/committing fraud. This way people know to proceed with caution in dealing with those people in the event that are reinstated on the forum.

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1768607)

Good reason to avoid opinions on the board, thereby requiring your name be out there and subject to background checks 😉

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768565)

This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768605)

Such as Neo-Natzi's, skinheads, KKK etc...?