Where does it say, or when has anyone ever said, there would be a no questions asked return policy here? Are you serious? As I obviously wasn't clear, that is NOT the policy and never will be. This extraordinary, mandated return is being mandated for the reasons already stated. And the seller (hi Tim and this isn't personal) can also just leave and not do anything. It's America....

Specifically I wouldn't want to see a NO RETURNS EVER message in a BST listing here. If people do it other places that is their business. It is not the attitude that is wanted here.

FWIW I asked this member how much for a lot of cards he offered me and he exploded on me for simply asking a price.

Originally Posted by Sean1125
What is your group price?

Yesterday, 01:12 AM
Timbegs

Default Re: 1953 Bowman Colow w BOTH MANTLES
Is this a joke? I showed you the cards; make an offer or don't. Very simple.

Forgive me if I have the wrong person. I thought you said you buy cards. If not, do you know anyone who does?

I'm looking for a bid. I don't do this for a living; I am just trying to raise some funds to surprise my wife with some new countertops in the kitchen. So again, let me know if you have a bid and are a card buyer. Or can direct to me to a person who might put a price on them rather than answer questions with questions. An actual card buyer.

I'm not giving them away for nothing and will be listing all 23 cards as one lot on eBay in a few hours. I figured I would give SOMEONE from this board a chance to get a good deal first but I've had no takers and not one offer despite giving net54 a decent head start.

So if you have a price where you'll buy them, you should show it. I will counter if I don't just hit the bid. The sooner, the better. I will take what I can get and these should draw interest and I imagine I'll sell them by tonight the latest on eBay as I need the money.

I thought people would at least make some kind of offer on this board. I am kind of surprised, honestly.

Anyway, if I made a mistake and you don't buy cards, I apologize. If you buy cards please make an offer.

Thanks
Tim


I let him know I felt his response was rude and unwarranted. He did apologize after the fact.

LOL.
Cues up Cyndi Lauper.

When a seller says he is giving a good deal, but also says he doesnt sell cards for a living than I am not sure how he knows what a good deal is. Plus, the fact nobody was willing to pay his price would seem he does not know how to price.

I think he should of asked whether you buy cards to sell them later at a loss....you could of said no to that

Given what I have read from this seller and buyer-EYEON in the earlier transaction that is subject to the thread, it was really the wrong seller for the wrong buyer.... if they made 3 deals, SOMETHING bad would of happened but it occurred on the first deal.


Its sort of like when drivers pick up hitchhikers in shady areas. I was told never to pick up any hitchhikers because hitchhikers can be dangerous. I was also told never to accept a random ride from someone because the drivers can be dangerous. Thus you have dangerous drivers picking up dangerous hitchhikers. Its an issue of who will take out the knife first i guess. Sooner or later SOMETHING bad will happen.

That is hysterical!

I'm not sure I can even count how many times someone who is offering something for sale has given me a similar response when I ask how much.

Always happens to me at card shows. I see something that piques my interest, inquire about the price and get a response like "Gee, I don;t don;t know. What do you think it's worth?"

Mind boggling.

Wow.....alrighty then.

I dont know what kind of card shows you go to, but I have never had that response.

Agree
 

So is seller banned yet?

Quick question -

Did the buyer ever ask the seller about a return policy?

If the seller is stating the truth about the buyer then I believe that providing an hour to respond to an email message is a bit of an ambitious request. Sometimes I go days without checking my personal email. :eek:

OK then.... I read all 9 pages of thread but still not sure why. Kinda like watchin a train wreck I guess.

FWIW - the SGC Grading scale - I could see how one might call it a 2 (and possibly a 3)

40 VG 3 90/10 or better centering, corners more rounded--but not excessive, stronger creasing may exist. Poorer focus, registration, and discoloration, and staining are more noticeable.

30 GOOD 2 Centered 90/10 or better. This card usually exhibits one or more of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tear, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss.

20 FAIR 1.5 Centered 90/10 or better. This card usually exhibits several of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, a small portion of the card may be missing.

10 POOR 1 This card usually exhibits many of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, small portions of the card may be missing.

I agree this seller should be banned. This is not the way we should do business here. But am I the only one who thinks the buyer caused a big part of the problem? I won't be able to flip this for enough of a profit is a very stupid thing to say when asking for a refund. It really seems like they're both clueless to me and I would not consider doing business with either one.

Pardon me for not putting on my Team Steven jersey. Both sides are wrong. Tim should refund the money. There is no question about that. This isn't eBay. We are a group of collectors who rely on this being our one safe-haven against these kind of things. If you don't know about grading, then don't claim it is a 3. You can't have it both ways and use an estimated grade as a selling-point, and then use your ignorance of grading as a defense after the fact.
Now a hypothetical question for Steven. You buy a raw card that the seller thought was VG, and send it to grade. The card comes back a 6. Would you send the seller a check for the difference? You can't have it both ways either. You took a risk on a raw card, and what bothers me most is that your chief complaint is that YOU CANT FLIP IT FOR A PROFIT! Not that you feel the card isn't worth what you paid, but rather that you can't make a profit on it!
This thread is just annoying on so many levels.

Tim has PM'd, asked for his account to be deleted, and said he isn't going to refund any money to Stephen. Here is my response....

Hi Tim
We don't delete accounts generally speaking.
That being said I will honor your wish and you have been banned. It was definitely your choice. Happy collecting,
LL

.

This whole thing kinda stinks. The " give me a refund or I'm going to trash your reputation on the Net54 forum"- left me with the worst taste of all of it.

I agree, I feel some people might think twice about making deals with him if it could lead to a thread like this in the future.

Someone buying to flip is as entitled to be happy with a card, and to receive accurate disclosures, as someone buying for his collection. I don't see why it makes a difference. Not that I am on Team Steven either, I don't think he handled this particularly well, but he's young I think and will learn.

What I meant, Peter, is that inherent in that statement is the idea that he can get his money back FROM ANOTHER BUYER, but not make a profit. This would mean (gasp) that he paid fair market value for it.

If you buy something from me and I misrepresented it,
intentionally or unintentionally, don't you think you deserve a timely refund?

Ok I think a lot of you are listening to what he said seriously when it's not the case.

1. I politely asked for a refund

2. He said no. (Answered in less than 10 mins)

3. I said I don't want to but I will take it to the board. Gave him a hour to get back to me ( no answer, after he admits reading it in that time frame) .

4. I then contacted him again say please let's settle this as the last thing I wanna do is make the thread. ( no answer)

5. Then I contacted him again!! ( no answer)

In total I gave him 4 hours almost to rectify the issue. I know he always answers quick as every correspondence we've ever had was quick.

6. I then posted and deleted. Feeling bad and still wanting to give him a chance.


Those are facts so please don't get the picture of me rushing him to a decision. I just felt robbed.

Please see the ENTIRE FIRST PARAGRAPH of my initial post. The fact that I am annoyed by his reasoning doesn't mean I don't think he should get his money back.

What is the purpose of asking for friends and family? If the buyer asks to pay friends and family as part of getting a lower price from a seller, that's one thing, but it does seem strange when a seller requests it. I'm sure the seller is just trying to get the best price he can but it can be construed as trying to remove protections for the buyer.

The better (and less shady approach) that I see and like is to say "This is what I want to get out of the card so this is the PP F&F price, but you are of course welcome to pay G&S if you cover the fees."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did.

Well the answer is FREE and easy access to the buyer's payment.
Obviously the way this has played out I would guess they are neither friends or family at this point.

Another answer is to not have to declare it as income.

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

That is why I said you should get a refund. But a true "3" is not a $250 card. That pretty much means looking to get over on someone to me.

The seller misrepresented the condition, and you should get a refund because of that; the price you paid wasn't 30 percent under VCP. Not to be flippant, but a 30 percent discount off of VCP falls into the "If something looks too good to be true..." category, IMO.

I read through the eleven pages thus far, and I find myself agreeing with your assessment. We all occasionally slip up and make mistakes, professionally and day-to-day. I flubbed up my first transaction on this board--however, I apologized and tried my best to make things right with the seller. While the transaction didn't go as we both had originally planned, we moved on and we both continue on N54 as businessmen and fellow collectors to this day.
This is why I feel this transaction didn't go through and left a bad taste in many mouths--neither the buyer nor the seller provided any "give"; it was all "take". While this can show what collecting is like to some people in the real world, it isn't an accurate representation of N54, which, from my experience, has been a board where the majority of collectors try to make deals which leave both parties as winners.

-NJ Dunkin

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

Tim B
Banned

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 126
Default Enjoy it - this will be my only post



The transaction was doomed in a lot of ways. We have a buyer thats part of the 'im quitting the net54 board' club dealing with a 'this is my last post on net54' club........those are two clubs that shouldnt be trading cards....like the Sharks and the Jets..


P.S. "Im leaving the hobby club' could also be tough club to trade with especially (not saying all but a red flag) when they havent left the hobby and continue to be very very active....and there is also the 'i dont care if i am banned by saying...." club as well.

+1

I don't see the problem.

Why doesn't he ultimately trade it up for a "3"?

:D

Yes....I laughed

I'm confused. Should I have not said anything and let it go? Then have him rip someone else off? Someone else already showed a nasty message he left them. I was upset and trying to protect others at the same time. Now I'm getting crucified. In my heart I know I did the right thing.

I say we all move on

For what it's worth, in my mind this Stephen guy is nothing more than Adrian 2.0.

And perhaps he should just send the '56 Mantle to PWCC. Not only will it miraculously become a 3, it'll end up in a 7 slab.

Or sell it to Battlefield. She could really photoshop it, and we can discuss it here once a month when she continually resells it.

It's hard to believe that someone's reputation means so little to them that they would do this over a couple hundred dollars.

When your wife says she has to get the kitchen redone . . . well, we've all been there . . . .

I've never been married, so maybe that's why I have trouble understanding. :D

LOL. Good one.

Not even as he would have had the card back and it obviously has some value, being a Mantle. Loser.

LOL, that is so true. I have learned 2 things from 19 years of marriage. 1) If she asks you to do something, 99.99% of the time it is easiest to shut up and do it. 2) It is way easier to get forgiven than permission.:D

Kitchens are expensive but it's cheaper to keep her.

He said he wanted to pay a "2" price initially


Vcp psa 2 average 273
Less grading, and less ebay pp fees and you only paid 250?

Just cause "it ain't a three" you still paid for a 2 as you requested and was obviously how you felt it would grade


Edited to add below:



"Message #2

(I do not have a sent mailbox set up apparently) so it went something like...

I am offering you a price based on a 2 not a 3"

But you never offer full VCP for a raw card. I normally don't even pay half on raw cards based on what I expect them to grade. I know you're nitpicking Stephen, but for a raw Mantle with creases, I would have never paid that much. But then, I have no problem waiting for the right cards/prices to come around.

On the other side of the cpin, If you are trying to make a few bucks, you have to take risks and strike quickly

The Ultimate throw up
 

The Ultimate throw up.....Will this please go away, what a freaking joke....

Yeah, I lost $100 on a Johnny Manziel card once. That loser... ;-)
The dead guys can't disappoint you by being cut by Browns, at least.

Well he lost an avenue to sell cards to get the kitchen redone....but for $250...maybe he is upgrading paper mache...to cardboard....at least its an upgrade and will remind him of the cardboard he sold

Please retitle thread

"ADRIAN vs ADRIAN"

(rated VG 1(-)3)

featuring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MNANgFCYpk

Others are protected... By their knowledge of the hobby, and by not having a desire to grab something cheaply off of others to make a quick buck.

And you stated your intention... So did he.
You said it yourself... He said "I THINK it will be a 3"
And "I WON'T offer any guarantees".....
You ACCEPTED those conditions making the purchase.... Right?

Is there no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY left in the world??

Honestly Stephen, accept the position you put yourself in, and move on like a big boy...
Its a learning experience that you sorely need.

Focus on your trade up scenario, as you seem to be getting support and it looks like you could make that a reality.
Its not a huge loss to take, and considering the enthusiam you show (which I like), you'll spring back, plus you'd earn the respect of a lot of board members by just moving on.

Just my opinion Stephen, but don't let this scenario sour you.....
Everyone has transactions they regret... You'll rise above it in the end.
Take care.

Yes but the idea is that the board should live up to a higher standard of customer service, friendliness, support, whatever you want to call it.

Clearly from Tim's listings and his response to another potential buyer, he was someone coming in to make a hit and run. Unfortunately he did just that, and the people most vulnerable to a situation like that are guys like Stephen, with a few bucks, a little knowledge, and a huge desire to get ahead.

This was absolutely NOT a case of an innocent mistake by a seller, but a calculated attempt to defraud, or at least "beat" any number of potential buyers. He came on as a complete newb to the board and posted a ton of ads immediately.

Coincidentally, one of the reasons I try and see the good in Stephen is I made at least one deal with him before his foray into more atteniton-grabbing posts. It was a good deal for both of us on a tough item. I'm no rookie, though I haven't been on n54 long, there is very little chance of someone rooking me, and even less chance of me dealing with a person who even gives me the impression of TRYING to get over on me. I came out ahead on the item, He feels he did great on it too I'm sure. But the main impression he gave me is one of enthusiasm. If he could hang out on here long enough and read widely enough those dewy spots behind his ears should dry quite nicely. as for the attention thing... :)

Hi there Scott,
While I agree with a lot of what you said... The seller didn't PERSUE Stephen right? He didn't force the sale. You can agree to that, no?
Stephen made an offer, and BOTH accepted? Correct? Where's the personal responsibility of the buyer??
You said "this board should live up to a higher standard"... but for just the seller?? Or both the seller AND buyer? If what you said is true and you believe it.... Stephen's "higher standard" would be accepting he made a bad judgment call.
Apparently, you seem to think it only goes one way....
I could be wrong, and if I am, I apologize, but that seems to be what your post says.
And we agree that Stephen's enthusiasm is a positive trait for both himself, and the hobby.
I wish both parties could rectify this situation amicably, maybe a partial refund would be fair?
But that's up to them.

Regards,
Brent

I'm a bit of a pain in the ass. I tend to hold others to the same standards to which I adhere. In this instance we had one honest person and one dishonest person. If I am party to a dispute, and I have been, so long as the person I am dealing with is being honest, they get satisfaction. I gave a partial refund that I imagine many would have denied, or maybe granted grudgingly. My trading partner was courteous, yes, but more importantly he wasn't dishonest. If Tim had not set out to defraud, he was certainly trying to tread the line as finely as possible. To my way of thinking, yes, that relieves Stephen of a large portion of the concomitant culpability. I fail to see anything dishonest in what Stephen did. In fact he seems to get a lot of flack for his naive honesty! While I don't comport myself in the manner of either of the parties involved, I do feel that only one was unethical.

Alas Brent, that ship has sailed. Tim has since been banished. He will be at Home Depot early tomorrow morning, searching for a $250 backsplash for the new kitchen.

Hey there Frank,

Does Feel Like it's RainiN LUCKY CHARMS iN Here :)

""" BCD deals wit PETER CHAO """

Honestly, wit ALL that's happened in the past week...
Has Any of the 2 Party's(And I Do mean Party's, These 2 have their own Disco goin on in their heads) Been Vetted Yet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Abb.ondandolo , I Kinda Like You...
And I Loved Peter Chao :)

Only, if You Gave me "4 Hours OR ELSE"(And I'm Guessin I'm Not the Only 1)
if I Got the Message in Time?,
I'd Still Feel Like Flippin a Coin...
(We Can't Just Assume "LIFE" Didn't Just Show uP
& Yank'd us Away from the Putar...)

Howevar, I Still would of Refunded Your Money,
Hopfeully Before You Trash'd me

"RESPECT!"

FOR THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE ME, TO THOSE WHO HAVE FOLLOW'D

~ DOESN'T HURT TA ASK QUSTION'S... Before You Purchase !!! ~

"I Still Come Here to Learn!"

Someone else said it and I agree. Stephen paid what, $250 for a card with a VCP of $275? Not the gold mine he is looking for, but accept the lesson learned, get the card graded, sell it and move on. You might lose a little juice, but you learned a valuable lesson.

WE have also learned that if EYECOLLECT is unhappy about a transaction, he will post very quickly a negative post about the seller. I would wait at least a few days of being ignored or trying to hash it out before making a thread on net54 about my bad experience. Just because you put in your thread 'i dont want to attack anyone' doesnt mean you are not in fact doing it.

I agree that both sides should be held to a net54 standard. I wonder why someone would not just return the $250 but I wonder if a few days passed and people maybe got over their emotions a return may of been made. Probably not but at least i would hope most buyers would give a few days and not start making threads/threats the same day etc..

Bottom line is someone bought a card, the listing was less than honest, the buyer was unhappy with it, asked for a refund, and was told to forget it.

What you do not understand is this..

I contacted him a few times about other cards prior to this deal. He ALWAYS got back to me within 5-10 minutes meaning he gets emails to his phone. Then when I messaged him the first time asking for a refund he answered me within 5 minutes. Now all the sudden he doesn't have a chance to check his messages? I sent him 4 messages in total. Only one was answered AND he admits to reading my deadline message within the time period. I also waited an extra 2 hours and sent 2 messages to this guy. I'm not dumb. He was clearly ignoring me.

Then again with Jeff the sun could be out and he would tell me it's not. Why are you always like that? I agree I could have possibly handled things differently (not buying the card).


Also, I want to clear the air with the people saying I was looking to strike gold. Is a $50-$75 profit striking gold for laying out $250? VCP has this card "Graded" at $355. I was planning on buying this card and selling it raw for $275 maybe $300 (hence my offer of $200). I came up to $250 after speaking to him and him leading me to believe this card was in fact VG. I don't get how I was looking to take advantage? Should I look to make no money? He's asking $300 I offered $200. I have received a lot worse offers from some big names on here.

One example would be my Ferguson Bakery Pennant of Joe Jackson SGC A

This is a $800-1000 pennant all day. (sold for $900)

I threw it up for sale and received offers on here of $300 $350 $400 and these are from people whom are active reputable people on the site. Those offers are going for my throat lol

Why am I being ridiculed for being straight up with the guy with my intentions from the first message, looking to make a "Few" dollars, being unhappy with the quality, and asking for a refund? Then coming on here protecting the community from someone whom was CLEARLY out to get as many people as possible.

I apologize if I seem too enthusiastic and sometimes jump into things quickly, but that is me and I am probably never going to change as that is how I was born. Heck, It's gotten me pretty far in life and when I hone it right sometimes is a way better quality than not haha.

My intentions were not malicious and never are. I would never lie steal cheat or rob from anyone (not just board members). I am 32 and can honestly say from the bottom of my heart I have never stolen anything in my life..

ok one time at Golf Smith when I was 7 I walked out with a bag of tees and in the car my dad asked me how I got them and I said the store. Once he explained to me about stealing I cried and brought them back in haha.

Anyways, sorry for the long winded post. I am really one of the good guys.

There are definitely tons of different personalities on this board. Like anything in life. When you deal with the general public, you will have your Good Guys, Your Bad Guys, Your Tough Guys, Your Mother Theresa's, Your Crooks, Your Douche Bags, Your skeptics, Your Immature people and your Weirdos.

If you can not identify yourself with one of those, you're probably the Douche Bag.

If Net54 were a sitcom and all the members characters, Stephen would be the one who gets the TV Guide cover. And I mean that as a compliment.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I feel its an unfortunate situation for both parties involved.
IMO hobbyists involved in BST transactions with cards should all have a clear method of displaying and transmitting images of the items. I.e. spend $80 for a flat bed scanner - and use it - a 400-600 dpi scan of the front and back with comments on any surface issues which may not be apparent on the scan. I may be stating the obvious, but all too often I see poor images from individuals attempting to BST sports cards- this is mostly on ebay, social media, and message boards. The "high end boards" such as net54 and CU tend to have much less of this going on. I saw the FS posts with regards to the individual in question and just passed on by- the images are horrible- either trying to hide something or are too lazy to figure out a way to take clear images. Maybe we should have some kind of minimum standard or set of guidelines in the BST sections with regards to displaying items for sale. Probably would be a pain for the moderators to monitor -but may be worth it in the long run.

I think the seller described the card perfectly. Because he suggested that it might be a 3 doesn't make it so. When he states that there are two creases on the card, that tells you that a 3 it is not. How many times have you sent in a card to be graded and it comes back not only a grade lower than you expected but two grades lower!!. This is buyers remorse and nothing else, IMO.

How was the listing less than honest?? The card had creases, and the creases were mentioned. Seller said the card MIGHT '3'. I've seen some pretty bad 3's, so I can see why he would think that. The card will more likely '2'....I think both sides made errors.....

I'm not gonna rehash with you Steven the technicalities of "striking gold". You got a 1956 Mantle for $250. It's an iconic card, as long as it is real. The scan he showed had the card in pretty decent shape. You paid a PSA 2 price and got a raw card that will more than likely grade a PSA 2. Not the "trade up" you envisioned, but still a Mantle card......Like someone else said, it was a seller trying to take advantage and a buyer trying to take advantage. Bad combination, IMHO.

:There are definitely tons of different personalities on this board. Like anything in life. When you deal with the general public, you will have your Good Guys, Your Bad Guys, Your Tough Guys, Your Mother Theresa's, Your Crooks, Your Douche Bags, Your skeptics, Your Immature people and your Weirdos.

If you can not identify yourself with one of those, you're probably the Douche Bag."



...But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain... and an athlete... a basket case... a princess... and a criminal. Does that answer your question? Sincerely yours, the Breakfast Club

Sure everyone on this board has made a transaction and looked back on it with regret. Maybe think the seller was less than forthcoming. Comes with the territory. Write the seller off and move on. No need to make a federal case out of it as they say.

Roflmfao!!!!

All that matters is mama got a sweet new counter top.

If I were to weigh the fault on a scale the seller here bears by far the most weight. No matter what Stephen paid he didn't get what he was expecting and a refund should have been issued without question. The guy admitted he can't take pictures worth a crap. Factor in the back and forth he had with Sean and that guy doesn't belong on this forum.

You are wrong bough. Taking advantage would be hey sweet mantle card. It's only worth 150 can I give you 100? I told him I wanted to buy it to make a few bucks. I was forthcoming and honest from the jump. He led me to believe it was in better condition than it was and that I would be able to make money on my 250 rather than 200. How was I looking to take advantage? I literally told him I was buying to resell. Holy smokes.

Stephen -- the guy is banned. I think at this point you would be well served to move on and leave this alone.

Stephen, at some point, you gotta let it go. Let someone else have last word, even if they're dinging you with it. The deal is completed. The seller is off the board. Case closed.

You're right. Apologies.

N


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

O?

It's fitting that I come in and make a comment after this issue is completely dead, but YOLO.

Stephen, it sucks when you feel you made a deal with good intentions, but the deal turned bad. Nobody wants to have to go through that, so I feel for you a bit because you went in with a lot of trust and that trust was taken advantage of.

That being said, you have to do a better job of getting all the information needed to make an accurate decision on whether or not what you purchase is going to allow you to flip it for a profit. The picture he supplied was terrible, and you should have asked for better pictures. Enough pictures to where you can tell 100% that the card is worth the money you're about to pay for it. If you can't get that then don't do the deal. Two, you can't just trust people's word on things. Even if he says he thinks it'd grade at a 3, that doesn't mean that's true. He never claimed to be an expert, so basically you trusted a guess and are upset that his guess wasn't accurate. Three, you can't come on here and do what you did, at least not in the time frame that you did it. You came on here before things had finalized and bad mouthed him. I don't like eBay very much, but one thing I do like about them is that if you buy a card and it's not what was advertised then you have to go through a process to get a refund. I believe that process takes at least a couple of weeks. You got the card, messaged him, and shortly thereafter posted this thread in order to get Net54 to guilt him into giving you a refund. If you had waited at least a couple of weeks, and done everything you could do in order to get a refund, and then came here after the issue was completed, in order to out a bad seller who refused to give you a refund, despite your best efforts, you'd have garnered more sympathy to your plight. As it stands now, you've hurt your reputation by jumping the gun and putting the seller on blast before the situation came to a complete conclusion.

In the end, I think you felt a bit betrayed and you did what you did in an attempt to make things right, but you went about it all wrong. In the future, get better pics, don't take the sellers word for anything, pay using a CC, and if you ever have an issue with another seller, PM Leon or a member you can trust and run the situation by them before taking it to the board.

I wish you the best of luck on your goal of getting the Mantle.

It going to be really hard to find someone selling 1 card to you for you to make 50 bucks on a 200 dollar card. That same person would likely try to sell the card for 225 dollars

When a card is raw there is always risk. You could in the future have the card graded and if it came back a 2, he could agree to give you 25 bucks or whatever. Some sellers may agree to this so they dont have to send the card off to be graded. I have done this type of deal with T206 cards where i received a credit or i paid extra depending how a raw card graded.

The buying to resell makes the most sense what you buy several cards and are willing to do the sweat equity to make money off of them imo..

I agree, vintage lots can be a good way to make some capital if your goal is to make money to eventually either get a more expensive card to flip, or to pay for the card you want.