1. VCP gets paid to do exactly what you guys are trying to avoid: (gasp) tell the world how much you paid for a card.
2. I personally love having card prices (particularly on ultra-rare stuff) cataloged and listed, both as a buyer and a seller. So many deals go on behind the scenes in private sales with rare cards that vcp is often left in the dust. I know of cards that sold publicly at 5k and later sold for over 30k privately a year later. If I wanted to buy OR sell another example of that card, I think it is vital to know what it sold for privately.
3. If the guy you are selling the card to says "but you only paid X for it," he is just as likely to quote you the vcp anyway, so who cares?

Of course you do. You want to be in the game, without spending a lot of time to acquire niche knowledge that professionals use to make their profits and as professionals, they want there to be less of them so there is room to make the profits they need.

Revert back to my last post. The last thing I want you doing is justifying your offer on my purchase price when I am trying to make a profit on a card. This is not hard to understand.

On rare stuff, lots of things don't make it into VCP. There is simply no category for them. Think about how to price all of the t206 errors, miscuts, oddities. There is nothing to go, on other than the past sales of that exact card.

"Of course you do. You want to be in the game, without spending a lot of time to acquire niche knowledge that professionals use to make their profits..."


It is like you are staring into my soul.

If you are trying to sell something truly rare, a dozen copies or less, and there hasn't been a public sale in years, I do NOT want my purchase of the card out there. I have had this used against me in these scenarios, I can call them all the names I want but in the end I want their money. I have spent years chasing cards following private sales as none make it to public auction. It is a lot of work and all the scenarios are different. Selling is completely different if you HAVE to sell the card versus not.

Its just hard to believe that some people simply cannot understand the opposite side here. I understand you want your info, you think we are silly but we disagree...and that is ok. No one is ripping someone off or even being rude.

There is an obvious dividing-line on this issue between guys who sell for a living and guys who are primarily collectors who sell on occasion. I don't think either side is necessarily wrong here. My point is, who cares if we know what you paid for a '48-49 Leaf Jackie PSA 3 on the board? We all know the card sells in the neighborhood of $1,500.00. Ebay, VCP, and auction results tell us as much. But I am sure that you guys, as sellers, have your reasons. No one is wrong here. Just a lively discussion is all.

Exactly this. Yes.

I am not a dealer, I hate selling cards and rarely do. And you are right, who cares about a card that always has examples on ebay...if there were only 8 copies of that card and you had one you may feel differently.

I think everyone understands your point. And yes I buy and sell as a hobbyist but am not a dealer which sounds like you might be. My point is that the community good from the knowledge gained by all should trump your fear of your buyer knowing a historical price offered

Not if it goes for big money! And if it doesn't, then my card ISN'T WORTH BIG BUCKS, and such is life!!!!!!!!! You gotta take the good with the bad. I collect rare cobb postcards. If someone sold a Cobb postcard on here that I also own, and it goes for huge money, then great: I want the world to know. And if it does NOT, then that is the market, and I don't care to hide it from everyone in hopes I can scam them later. I am done with this topic, but have at it.

I agree with ya there Orly, but you are neither the buyer nor the seller in that scenario.

How exactly does the hobby progress with price information anyway? It does nothing for the hobby itself. And no, I am not a dealer in any way and never have been.

Disagree with you big time there Steven. Pricing information is key for the hobby as for one it signals which cards/sets we can focus on based on budget. If I run across a card/set I'm not familiar with on BST and the offer price has been deleted I can't make a quick judgement if it fits into a future buying opportunity. Man I really love that (fill in the blank!) and now know it was being offered for $500, I'll put that in memory or on my list of something to pursue in the future. For all the dealers using BST, it behooves you to educate your customers and treat them fairly as they will most likely come back for multiple transactions.

You think the Dr. getting kicked off his United flight will be flying United anytime soon? lol

Take paragraph 2, and replace "card" with "house".

Oh you're right, it's a very bad analogy :confused:. We should be comparing houses to a commodity like coffee beans, not baseball cards, because all houses are the same, unlike baseball cards.

AJ, everything you talk about has to do with the hobbyist, not the hobby. Whether you participate in the hobby or not does nothing for the hobby itself...at least the way I think of it. All your points, all your issues within this have to do with providing the community with as much information as possible. I just don't agree this has anything to do with bettering the hobby....strongly.

Just look at all the info out there now regarding sold prices on houses accessible to the public. Stopped lots of flippers in their tracks. Also, led to people changing addresses on their houses and condos. Unit 1 for unit A, 3rd street to Third St...etc

It actually is a bad analogy because house sales are public record. Not because they couldn't be considered 1 or 1 items as well (which they could).

Well I just gave you an example. Does the hobby get stronger if potential buyers know more about cards/sets and what they cost? I think so. It certainly benefits future sellers on BST if they've got more interested buyers. And I become an interested buyer when I know a certain card/set fits into my budget. At the end of the day the BST is a place where hobbyists come together to buy, sell and trade within the trusting net54 community. Deleting asking prices because you're afraid of having to validate your asking price when it comes time to sell is a poor excuse from taking away from the community at large.

Yes. The housing market works nothing like the card market but that is way off of the point I was attempting to make, along with your analogy.

My argument only, was that there is more potential room to make profit if buyers don't know what I paid for an item. It is also has the chance of turning some buyers off because they don't know what a fair price would be.

You only want to know what 'fair' is so you don't get ripped off. You don't want to pay more than you have to, but you are forgetting that you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to.

If you purchase with what you think it is worth to you, regardless of knowing what it is worth to someone else, you will never get ripped off. You then don't need to know what other people thought it was worth, because you got it for what you thought it was worth to you.

yes confucius good post and pretty much useless for this conversation

It certainly benefits future buyers if sellers make money on the cards that buyers want so they can continue to sell cards to potential buyers.

At the beginning of the day, Net54 is a place where people come to talk about a lot of things, one of which is selling cards and reaching buyers, one method of such through advertising, which like everything else, is up for a certain period in time, and then it is no longer available.

please keep going...you're doing a great job of making my point

You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

we've already established that historical prices realized are kept and found on ebay and AH's...why not BST? And on BST it would only be "Asking Prices" not final. So your comment about advertising and no longer being available is nonsensical to this discussion.

Asking prices
Ebay: Asking prices disappear after 6 months.
Website: Asking prices may disappear at any time.
Auction sites: Auction sites come and go. Not all auction sites maintain opening bid pricing or reserve information for you to never endingly stroll through.

Sale prices
Ebay: Private sale prices are not displayed readily.
Website: Sale prices are not displayed readily at all.
Auction sites: Not all auction sites maintain a history for you to never endingly stroll through or may disappear at any time.

Seems right on par to me. These items are businesses. People selling cards on this forum may or may not be.

Yes and vcp and card target have all the data. What's your point?

Some of it. Just like you can get some of the past prices on the Net54 website, but not all of them.

:rolleyes:

The point is, your peeve will never be satisfied, here or anywhere else. Insert another quarter to play again. :)

AJ - We just don't agree, but you seem to claim I am taking from the community at large by doing this. All your examples are for the betterment of the hobbyist and just b/c its helps the hobbyist does mean it helps the hobby. But really, you've called me silly, you've made references to confusius and I really doubt you are putting an ounce of energy into understanding someone else's view besides your own. So in the end, tough shit.

I understand all the viewpoints given but you've given zero rebuttals that make sense. Feel free to keep erasing your prices and I'll leave mine up. Everyone else is free to do the same. Are you a selfish person or one that wants to help the community?

I really enjoy helping the community, when I list a card for 1/3 of the market price.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I get 17 "I'll take it"s for every one in the community who is kind enough to let me know of my error, whether due to ignorance or a typo.

Helping the community is not a universal goal of Net54 members. Believe me.

I've been around here long enough to know who my friends are, as well as the other estimated 90%. Don't worry, if you consider me a friend, you are in the 10%.:D

Marketing on BST comes in many forms. Mine is no doubt considered ridiculous by some and ingenious by others, but I will treat you with respect as long as you reciprocate and will communicate privately and promptly regarding any transaction in progress.

What is left on a listing after the fact is the seller's prerogative - period.

Negotiating sales or trades publicly is not my style, nor would I suggest my style to or impose it on anyone else. 'nuf said.

Carry on.

That's it!! This thread can close now, Frank is 100% right!!

Yes sellers obviously have right to delete or leave up prices. No one arguing otherwise. Hopefully more than not realize the benefits to themselves and the community and leave them up.

Can we get a chant?

Leave them up!

Leave them up!

Leave then up!

Muhahaha

Frank, I'm your friend. Who's with me?

I certainly hope that I have a lot of friends on this board...that has been my goal from day one.

If you were truly interested in benefiting the hobby you'd start a thread sharing actual hobby/card knowledge and not put so much emphasis on prices, values, etc.

My Take
 

While it's not a huge deal to me, I generally don't like people knowing how much I pay for things, cards or otherwise. If me not wanting to share that info somehow leads to someone paying more than they would have otherwise, and that's what we're really talking about here, then so be it.

I dont disagree with that. However when you hear sellers in negotiations say 'cant do it for that, i have more than that into the card' If i then saw the asking price on that very same card in a prior recent sale for less (assume that was the card the seller previously bought) than what the seller was asking then I would know about the seller integrity for example..

basically im fine for all the secrets, even though in houses everyone knows what people paid for the most part, but i dont want to hear it from sellers how much they paid for a card when they try to negotiate but that very same seller removing prices of what the asking price was on a card they bought. cant have it both ways for me..

right!