Nice ones, thanx Jim

I picked up another Joe D a couple days ago, which gives me 11 different versions.

1 : I have a DC version, but for some reason haven't scanned it.



2-3-4 : There are three with NY on the right hand side.

The middle one is easiest to spot the difference based on the placement of his foot in relationship to the text on the right hand side.

The text on on both sides of the top one is inside the width of the picture, while on the bottom one the text is printed wider.



5-6-7-8-9-10-11 : There are seven with New York on the right hand side.

The top two have the letter J in Joseph level with the other letters, and the placement of the text on the right hand side is different.

The next four all have a "dropped J" in Joseph. The top and bottom look to have the same placement of all the text, so you might think they are the same, but note on the bottom one that the font is different. It is easiest to spot on the left hand side,the "M" in magazine is different, and the "k" in York is different.

On the other two (the 2nd and 3rd down) see how the foot is lined up with the name differently? Also the text on the right hand side of #3 goes beyond the picture.

The bottom on has a way smaller name, and see how the right hand text has different placement, with the little box to the right of York?

I'm afraid to ask
 

Is there a Clemente in the set?

Not that is listed in the catalog, and I have never seen one.

But, I hope there is.

Doug

Here is the DC version of Joe D. It's the only one that calls him Joe.

Doug

M113 Cubs variation
 

the top Evers has Poster #7 at the bottom; not sure if it is also available without the #7 designation; maybe the big guns can weigh in on this. the top Chance as a Cub has Poster #4 at the bottom; same question as for the Evers. enjoy.
Attachment 263427

Attachment 263428

Attachment 263429

Attachment 263430

Another home run from Jim. Thank you, sir.

I have the Evers poster #7, and haven't seen it without the #7.

I don't have the Evers #4, and haven't seen it without, either.

Doug

Nice info...

Sorry, I'm having a hard time letting this thread die...

And, I know that Jim has one that has different text at the bottom...

3 more M113 teams
 

found these in the archives. another 3 pieces knocked off your original list Doug!
Cobb top row, 5th from left
Attachment 264163

Attachment 264164

Attachment 264165

I'm back! And so is this thread!

I have trouble letting things go, or so my wife tells me...

Anyway, this has been a great experience when it comes to comparing our collections, and thanks to Doug, I for one have learned a lot about the endless caption variations. I'm confident that I'll never have the budget or the focus to collect them all.

However, I'd like to steer things a little closer to what I had in mind in the first place, which is to exchange information about the set. Let's face it, there are few major sets about which so little is known. And there are lots and lots of questions.

Are there any Baseball MAGAZINE collectors/experts out there? Does anyone have any detailed knowledge about the magazine's final years, how its inventory was ultimately disposed (there was a major auction house sale a few years ago - the printing plates have already been cited). Was there an inventory of posters included in that sale? Have there been any warehouse finds? Because pioneer New York area dealer Bob Gallagher was selling M114's from a two foot high stack on his table at shows in the late Seventies, and I don't think he purchased them one at a time.

Other issues I'd like people to join in on: set oddities. Ken Keltner is listed as having had posters issued in 1939 and 1947. I've only seen the one relatively common batting pose. Any other versions lurking out there?

Not long ago, someone got hold of a 1928 Jimmie Foxx printed in green rather than the usual sepia. It looked like the real thing. Anyone else have off-color premiums? (you're free to insert your own jokes here)...

Finally, here's my current list of posters that do not appear on the official list. Please, by all means, feel free to add to them:

M113: 1-4) Ty Cobb, Johnny Evers, Frank Chance, Walter Johnson - each seems to exist in two poses, and the official list has only one each.
5) Vic Saier - not listed anywhere
6) Death Valley Scott - also not listed, although I've seen a few around.

M114: 1) Mickey Cochrane (Tigers) - probably 1935. Only version on the list is from 1925, obviously showing him with the A's
2) Rudolph York (Tigers, batting) - there's a catching pose from 1938 and a dugout pose from 1946, both listing him as "Rudy." My guess for "Rudolph" is 1942.
3) Dizzy Dean (Cubs) - probably 1938
4) Joe Gordon (NY) - second pose, shown early in this thread. 1942?
5) Bob Feller (Washington DC caption) - probably 1957
6) Ty Cobb (batting cage, Washington DC) - shown in an earlier post of mine, probably 1957
7) Mickey Mantle - two poses have been shown in this thread, only one is on the list

Happy hunting.

Alan Kleinberger

Hi Dave - I just purchased a Ted. It has a New York address on it. Does that mean it was printed in 1939? Also,were there different images used for the 1939 vs 1949 versions?

Thanks for your help!

Evan

Hi Doug,

Did pose #1 come out first - is that the 1939 version?

bb magazine
 

Alan,
The auction you are speaking of took place in New York City over two days in September of 1996. Christie's East (I don't believe there has been an "East" for some time), handled the auction. Once in a while, a catalog will turn up on eBay. They are a trip.

The auction was a big deal; the New York Times did a article a week before the sale. This was good publicity for the auction house, but I don't believe they considered this stuff to be classy material. There were about 17 thousand photos in the auction.

Bill Mastro was the big spender on the first day, buying Conlon lots and lots packed with HOFers. He may have spent in the vicinity of 40 thousand dollars. Mr. Mastro was a smart guy and may have had buyers for this stuff when he walked on to the auction floor. There were, maybe, two other big dealers who picked up a disproportionate number of lots. I can think of only one or two private collectors who may have made an imprint.

There had been the Culver sale of Bain photo about 4 years prior to this auction. Sotheby's handled that auction. That was the first time photographs went for big money. That was just a weird auction....


There were no M113 or M114 premiums, but there were about 20 lots of what the auction house called "cover" photos. I have at least one that wasn't mounted, but most were Conlon shots affexed to heavy board.

BB Magazine was around from 1908 into 1955. Between '55 and '65 it was sort of hit and miss.

The last publisher was Earl Noyes of Washington. D.C. His widow was in possession of the photo library until the Christie's sale. She had made attempts to sell the photos, but, until the Christie's auction, had no luck. You have to remember, photographs were of absolutely no value, if you were going to collect baseball memorabilia in those days, it would have been cards or autographs or programs. I have been told there was an asking price of $100,000, which would have constituted a real gamble. Who knows?

Here's the punch line: about three weeks after Christie's hauled out the 17 thousand photos, a pipe flooded the apartment where the pictures had been stored.
lumberjack

I'm happy that this thread is back in action...

I do not know, and I'm not sure if it's possible to know which years many of these issues were printed.

Doug

Hello everyone. To answer the question asked about the two Ted Williams poses, I believe Doug may have accidentally transposed them, chronologically speaking. The Ted Williams pose showing a very young Williams against a dark background was issued in 1939. There is no way to know precisely when your copy might have been printed, as the M114's were kept in print and were periodically reprinted, until they weren't. There seems to have been frequent tinkering with the typesetting on the captions, which is where Doug's incredibly precise collecting efforts come in, but I don't believe anyone is in a position to know the year or years each caption type was issued.

So, to summarize, the Williams pose with the dark background was FIRST issued in 1939 and was probably reprinted and made available through 1948 or even early 1949. The second pose, showing a stadium background, was first offered in 1949, probably late I the year, and was undoubtedly available until the magazine when under. A "New York" caption line would have been available at least through 1954, perhaps later until the stock ran out. A "Washington D.C." caption line would have to post-date the magazine's sale to a DC - area publisher, which I believe took place in 1954 or 1955. The last "regular" issue of the magazine came out in 1956, but apparently the premiums were still being produced for another year or so. No word on whether the 1964-65 revival made the earlier premiums available.

There. I hope that's as clear as mud...

Very helpful, thanks!

Evan

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

In the spirit of the multiple holidays during the next 10 days, here are the multiple versions of the Archer m113. Among other differences, note the placement of the copyright symbol both under the edge of the picture and to the left of the edge.

Doug "yes, I may be slightly nuts, but different IS different" Goodman

ps - I have fixed my numbering to reflect my agreement with Alan regarding the Williams pictures chronology.

And here are two versions of the O'Toole m113.

Same thing with the copyright placement as the Archer.

Also, note how the second line "The $25,000 Pitcher" isn't as wide in relation to the first line "Marty O'Toole" on the lower scan, only reaching from the "R" in Marty to between the second and third "O"s in O'Toole.

Here are two versions of the Jim Scott m113

There were posters issued in 1957 which measure 17.5 X 20 inches.

Here are scans for :

Johnny Antonelli
Jackie Jensen
Bob Lemon
Chet Nichols
Dean Stone
Mickey Vernon

I also have Bob Turley, but haven't scanned him, yet.


According to the catalog there are also posters for :

Hank Bauer
Frank House
Al Kaline
Al Rosen

Do any of you have any of the missing four?

Alan, perfect!
Doug, last month, finally picked up my 7th variation for Ted Williams (as you had posted last year--2 versions of the 1939 and 5 versions of the 1949). I agree, in looking at these versions side-by-side, I also believe each is a different print-run, and likely once yearly from 1949 through 1954/55.

I also saw that you picked up another Joe D. variation; will have to keep a look-out for those Ted variations that have not been found yet.

Dave

Here are the three more large sized 1957 poster scans :

Missing only Frank House and Al Kaline...

With thanx to the most recent Huggins & Scott auction, I have added 4 more m114s to my collection (1036 total) with one of them being a previously unseen (at least by me) Mantle pose. That gives him three different issued poses, that I am aware of.

Doug

Congrats to whoever picked up this m114 Willie Mays tonight on ebay, those don't come up very often, and even though it's beat up, I thought the price was pretty good.

I picked up the Rosen for $2.24 instead.

If anybody reading this picked up the group of 15 for $82, I would be interested in the Robin Roberts that was included.

Doug

Good morning -

The combination of the zombie apocalypse, and my natural tendency towards staying up all night, is giving me time to dig into my m114 collection. Alan and myself are combining our lists and are pretty close to having an up to date "checklist" for what the two of us are aware of, and we're also pretty close to asking the rest of you to take a look at it to let us know what we missed.

Until then, here are the lower label print differences (that we know of) for players whose last name starts with "A"...

Avila - 2
Attachment 396931

Ashburn - 2
Attachment 396930

Appling - 6
Attachment 396929

Alexander - 2
Attachment 396928


Since it's 5:35 am, I think I may go to be now.

Doug "or maybe I'll have some rainbow sherbet" Goodman

After a big bowl of rainbow sherbet, here are the players whose last names start with "B" (in two posts).

Blackwell - 3
Attachment 396955

Bevens - 4
Attachment 396954

Berra - 2
Attachment 396953

Bearden - 2
Attachment 396952

Bauer - 2
Attachment 396951

Bagby Sr. - 2
Attachment 396950

Bagby Jr. - 2
Attachment 396949

Brown - 2
Attachment 396962

Brissie - 2
Attachment 396961

Brecheen - 3
Attachment 396960

Branca - 2
Attachment 396959

Boudreau - 7
Attachment 396958

Bottomley - 2
Attachment 396957

Bonham - 3
Attachment 396956

Doug -

I'm scared to ask, but can you identify the date of issue based on the font of any of these...perhaps by cross-referencing them with other players with the same font and the first year they would have been produced?

Also, do you know if there is a Kaline M114 with a New York address (vs. Washington DC)? I believe you said that the Washington DC addresses started in 1954.

Who knew there were this many variations of an under-appreciated and under-collected set? Other than you, of course!

Date of issue : believe it or not, I haven't really paid much attention to dates (yet) other than to just run with what is in the SCD. I suppose at some point, I will probably get into dates, but I don't think we will ever really know, unless somebody finds a file cabinet filled with m114 (and hopefully m113) paperwork from the Baseball Magazine offices (or their printer).



Al Kaline : It was actually Alan's groundbreaking 2008 article in SCD that let me know about the DC address.

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/memorabilia/m114

I have never seen a Kaline with a New York (or NY) address line, and would not be surprised if one doesn't exist, but I'm always looking, just in case.

Doug

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing!

The author of that article, is the OP of this thread.

Thanks for the kind words. When I started it, I had hoped that this thread would find its way to someone who actually knows stuff about the goings-on at Baseball Magazine, particularly during its later years, but so far, not so much. My article was written by someone who didn't actually KNOW anything, just someone who'd been collecting the set for a long time and deduced some things. It just shows that enthusiasm will overcome ignorance.:eek:

Seriously though, I am very flattered that people have found my article useful. No doubt the lack of other articles written about the set helps mine stand out.:D

Alan

Always enjoyed these, chance to pickup some great players cheaply! I did however shell out some money for some fully intact M113s from Steve V many years ago. Complete large sizes and no creases. Steve convinced me how rare they were like that. Someone referenced Steve buying these years ago, I was the beneficiary and ultimate buyer of some of them.

I Moved around quite a bit after that, lugging the stack of these around in an art case. I framed a few so I can see them easily, then thought that was mistake since they were in such pristine condition that was now covered up a bit! I love that Walter Johnson pitching arm pose, pretty unique image and card?

Never see much interest in these, or love from auctions or prices... but they are great!

Here is my Walter... unlike the others this one was well loved over the years and creased.

Paul

Here is a Uncle Jimmy that was signed by Lou’s wife.

Attachment 434837

That's the best m113, in my opinion.

Late to the party
 

I've gotten interested in the M114's relatively recently. They seem to provide a rare opportunity to land a "card" of some otherwise unobtainable Hall of Famers. I gather, though, that some/many of the poses were issued after the players' careers were over.

Is there a checklist anywhere online that gives the dates of issue of the various poses? I assume everyone would prefer something that was issued during the player's career, just I assume there'd be a price difference attached to the issues from when the player was active. I'm not so much interested in price/value, though, just year of first issue. Can anyone help?

Long ways off, but I will have well over 100 M113/114's in my next auction, with several text variations and HOFers.

Signed examples
 

I have several signed M114s from the Doc Steen collection. But my favorite signed M114 is my Wagner:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...aca8852f_c.jpg

I also used to own this signed M113 Speaker, but I traded it for a Ty Cobb check endorsed by fellow T206 player Cad Coles.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...306af0a7_c.jpg

Great thread with a lot of information. The collector gene can clearly be seen.
I remember measuring, to a 64th of an inch, a whole group of 1916-W unc cards as a small project. I drank a lot of coffee that morning, as I remember.
Thanks for sharing, guys!
.

Can we get a link, please?

Will be several months away yet.... www.brockelmanauctions.com

I'm going to go get in line now, it will be like going to see AC/DC in 1982 when I got to the Cow Palace the night before the show...

another group of M114's coming to auction
 

Hi Guys:

The next Huggins and Scott auction will have a lot of over 100 M114's.

Link is nelow. No photos posted yet

https://hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/...l?itemid=60504