If it's good enough for Sporcle it's good enough for me. :D

http://www.sporcle.com/games/livfred/eponymous_movies

Yawn. Think most of youse guys need to hit your local watering hole and get laid for a Friday nite. Else, you wouldn't be posting this nonsense. :rolleyes:

Jose Fernandez and passengers all with alcohol on their breath

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...odor/92784342/


"“This recklessness was exacerbated by the consumption of alcohol by the operator, whoever that was."

I have a 2 points about this:

1. Dead people don't breathe
2. They had water in their lungs. I would expect those observations to be tainted.

Fernandez under influence of cocaine and alcohol at time of crash. Terrible.

Driving a speed boat in the dark of night at high speed under the influence of coke. Really bad idea on many levels.

I guess we're all blessed the Gods put rocks there instead of a family. Happens all to often in traffic accidents. Although I'm sure he never did any car driving under those intoxications.

Wow...I wanted to keep his cards I have but now I am having second thoughts

Was a great player but like a lot of people in their 20s think they are invincible.

I tell my kids all the time about the hockey goaltender from NJ who was killed years ago speeding. His reflexes were superhuman quick and had perception skills than none of us mere mortals will come anywhere near. If he can lose control of a car on a turn speeding all of us can. Speed kills.

Yeah it gets worse and worse plus not just under the influence a .14 which pretty dang high plus cocaine.. (yes we cant prove who was driving yet but it was his boat)

We really going to name public schools after him? Plus he knew he had a baby on the way..

Like someone said, luckily it was just rocks and not people they ran into. I still disagree that a man's last actions if it results in a the death of innocent people can't taint many years of good work. If they release these toxicology reports when they were first available instead having to be sued to release them the narrative about Jose Fernandez would of been a lot different in terms of the celebration part

One of the passengers didnt have cocaine in their system as well so it wasnt a group thing.

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If three men who were sober and clean decided it was a brilliant idea to take a speedboat out on the ocean at one in the morning with the knowledge that there were unseeable deadly hazards in the dark around them, I would be bewildered. It makes sense now.

Did I miss something, but why wasn't the Tim Crews boat accident mentioned?

Makes you wonder how many of these players are using cocaine etc.

Don't these guys get drug tested on a regular basis? If he used cocaine i would think it would be in his system for a while say if he didn't die or crash and went back the next day or so to play.

They test for drugs of abuse if they believe there is reasonable cause to suspect a player of abusing drugs. That doesn't mean if a player fails, that anything happens. They could recommend a treatment program for them. They won't get suspended though.

Drugs of abuse suspensions only apply to minor league players not on the 40-man roster. There have been rumors of a couple instances of teams adding players to the 40-man roster to protect them from lifetime suspensions under the minor league drug prevention program.

With everything these guys have to lose you'd think they put the hard drugs far far away. Drink and drink, use a driver the team would be thrilled to provide.

I know it's not a great thought, but now I look at all the videos of Fernandez going manic in the dugout differently. Was he going back to the bathroom and having a few toots on days he wasn't starting? I have no idea. But certainly makes you wonder.

RIP. None of this makes him a terrible person. Just someone who made some terrible choices.

Not saying it applies to Jose, but it can be argued that terrible people make terrible choices.

Making a terrible choice or choices is not exclusive to terrible people, at least in my opinion and based off of my experiences. This is especially true when it comes to addiction. Of course ultimately that final judgment is not ours to make anyways

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I didnt say that, i just said it can be argued that terrible people make terrible choices.

Who knows. As a rich young single very popular athlete in a city with lots of rich young partyers, maybe he fell in with the wrong crowd. Or maybe it was just an unfortunate one-time thing.

Perhaps,but people like to argue things are a one time thing versus perhaps someone got away with doing certain behavior without incident until now..

so many reality cop shows are sting operations the perpetrator says 'its my first time' Like 95% of the time, it appears they are arresting people who said its their first time

one of the guys on the boat didnt have cocaine in his system as well so there seemed to be a choice involved..


Theres an issue of who was driving which really does impact a potential settlement. I believe you are only liable up to 600k per person in florida for just being the owner of a boat which was being driven by someone that caused an accident. If you are active driver though, the sky is the limit

I noticed that Topps set all his cards to "Sold Out" in Bunt. That would mean that you can't get them in packs anymore.

I have no idea about Fernandez, but for some people coke can be a terrible drug, I had a very close friend in law school who really struggled with it and he was anything but a terrible person.

That can be true and to boot he probably not responsible in some part for the deaths of two people.

Terrible people make terrible choices, unless you can point to someone we can all agree is a terrible person and see if that person did not make terrible choices.

I contend that all terrible people make terrible choices but not all people that make terrible choices are terrible people..

Terrible
 

I am sending this one to Jack Handey with a note saying "top this one"

I remember hearing an interview years ago, from a former MLB player.

He said that starting pitchers were more susceptible to substance or alcohol abuse. They pitch once a week, twice at best. That leaves A LOT of downtime, something that most position players, since they will play everyday, do not have.

As mentioned previously, life is all about choices though.

and not all people make terrible posts, but some do!

Everyone
 

and yes I mean EVERYONE has made a terrible choice at one point or another in their life. That does not mean any of us deserved to die for a moment of stupidity. I feel for all those that lost their lives these new revelations do not change my feelings that this was tragic.

Thats a good point..i bet that probably applies to kickers and punters in football too as they have a lot of downtime and its not like there is much of a playbook to look at.

So most of you guys are on board with contracausal free will? Perhaps it's best if I just post about baseball cards.

Oh man, you made be have to look that word up! Now I gotta figure a way to use that word on my wife tonight.

Tim Raines, Alan Wiggins, Ron LeFlore, Ken Caminiti, Eddie Mathews, Miguel Cabrera, Daryl Strawberry, Lenny Dykstra, Billy Martin, Mickey Mantle, Jimmie Foxx etc. are all known to have been substance abusers (drugs or alcohol) and none of them were pitchers.
I don't agree with that statement one bit.

I guess this qualifies Jose to be a a US Posage Stamp someday. Just like the drug addict Elvis. My brother was a big stamp collector until they started putting all these "stars" etc on stamps.

We'll agree to disagree. i can come up with a list of pitchers as well, but I'm not sure what that solves. I'm sure there are countless players who never made the news or headlines, that had abuses which were kept quiet and privately handled.

The radio interview was with a former player, and I'll give him the benefit of insight to the matter.

theres also a bunch more position players on teams than starting pitchers..

I don't think I believe that at all. It sounds like some idle hands rhetoric.

Idles hands rhetoric?
 

It is not just rhetoric it is actually backed up with facts it's why things like midnight basketball and thriving job markets, after school programs, and community centres that are thriving help to cut down on crime. It does not take a rocket scientist to realize it's harder to get in trouble when you are doing something productive or positive.

Also nothing good ever happens during the night after 2 am typically

Glass houses people

For my daughter that cut off is 12:30am (she will be 20 this month)...Nothing good happens after that time.....for her anyway....

I believe all of that when it applies to children. but we were talking about adult professional athletes who aren't pitching on a given day.

Said EVERY dad with a daughter! Too funny Leon!!

see next post
 

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I guess it took 5 months for the dust to settle

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/jo...031729793.html


Here come the lawsuits that people were arguing wouldn't occur. If Jose wasnt driving the boat, since he was the owner he would be responsible for the death of the one passenger that was not driving the boat or if Jose was the driver he would be responsible for both. Would be interested to know as to what kind of insurance there was.

Also in the works is Jose's mother is trying to be in charge of the estate and the current money (with life insurance proceeds an earnings in the 4 million range) and it would not surprise me if money went 'missing' before a judgment is entered. There is also a potential newborn baby in the future. Still the total death claims right now are for about 4 million dollars. Jose's new contract would of been in the 25 million dollar a year range. A sad situation

Looks like there is some decent evidence that Jose Fernandez was operating the boat at the time of the crash and he had drugs in his system. I really dont think there should be schools named after him. He would have been charged for manslaughter had he lived.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...138834953.html

I saw this today as well. It's more than "decent" evidence at this point that he was driving the boat:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/in...t-intoxicated/

I heard a couple of media reports about this, and there were some people saying, let him rest in peace...why do this to the family?, What's the media doing to the family? I totally disagree with those thoughts. While tragic as this incident is, the truth should be known as an example for our younger kids on what can happen when you think you have it all....This was indeed a tragic event, but it could have been easily avoided....

plus he killed two men, what about their families?

I completely disagree with this. 2 people died but he did not kill anybody. They got on the boat on their own free will and knew exactly what could happen.

Seriously how many people in their entire life have not got in a vehicle/boat with a friend that had a cocktail or something else. Now if that would have ended tragically would you want people saying your friend killed you?

Those other two men were big boys that made the decision to go out with him that morning. It sounds like all three were out drinking together and took off in the boat after 2AM. One of the guys had coke in his system (like Jose). It was just a poor choice that all three made.

Right. That's why he drove 70 MPH into a rock embankment...They should have known better..Really?

Exactly

You would be great on a jury for a defense in any DUI auto accident in which the driver killed the passengers because everyone is a 'big boy'. The article says that jose would of been charged with manslaughter had he survived, so apparently you would disagree with that as well.

One of the passengers had no drugs in his system and had basicallyzero boating experience. I am pretty sure he was not aware of the risks

I guess the lawsuits are fruitless because it was the passengers fault for the accident

Jake,

I figure if someone is stupid enough to get into ANY type of vehicle when they know the driver is drunk then that's on them. I never said he shouldn't have been charged with a crime if he had lived. You can call it manslaughter, murder, or whatever - but think about it, those other two guys knew he was drunk. They played Russian Roulette and LOST. And no, I wouldn't let someone off the hook if they were driving drunk and caused the death of his passengers because his passengers knew he was drunk when they got in the vehicle. Geesh, chill out. Your assumptions are so off base.

He quoted you, but his response seems more like it was aimed at bnorth. That being said, with your thoughts shortly following his I can see where it sounded like you were in agreement.

i see you agree that the driver is responsible but 'that's on them' as also the responsibility on the passengers for being stupid and implying they are also responsible.

Depends on what you mean 'KNEW' he was drunk. If the guy tells you he had 2 beers but in a boat that means nothing compared to car. Did you kNOW? I know there can be counterarguments but the fact there can be arguments makes adding conditions silly.

Its starts to get complicated when we keep adding layers. Thats why the law is pretty simple. The driver/owner is responsible for the occupants. That way we arent worrried about who knew or should of known things. Nobody thought he would be driving 65 mph or whatever in a rock embankment like cmize said.

If you believe everything on the internet then....

According to the investigation the three were seen in a bar prior to the time they got in the boat. The assumption is that the three were probably together for a while during the evening. Yes, alcohol tends to screw up your judgement (like letting you pile drive your boat at over 65MPH into a jetty on a clear evening) but you have to figure in today's day and age you just need to be smarter when you decide to get into a vehicle with someone that is not in total control. I guess it could have looked worse if Jose was driving his vehicle (on the way to getting to his boat) and slammed it into a tree at 100MPH (killing all three) because society is less tolerant of drinking and then driving a 4 wheeled motor vehicle.

The time line is pretty interesting. Investigators seem to have it nailed down pretty good. The way I see things is that people "own" the consequences of their poor decisions.

I want my kids growing up knowing that consequences of their poor decisions is on them and nobody else.

I don't think that's entirely true though. Getting on a boat with someone who was drinking isn't the same as signing your life away. I don't think it's right to blame a victim either. The two men aren't dead because they were drinking or doing drugs, they're dead because Jose Fernandez was drinking and doing drugs.

It becomes a broader issue, people who drink go with designated drives. So if the people are drunk and dont realize their designated driver is too drunk to drive and an accident happens, its again the passengers to blame? I can see a failure in trust but thats not the same as being responsible for the accident.

The passengers didnt decide to drive, It was Jose. If Jose decided not to drive and nobody drove, then no accident happens.

I really think you just have to blame the driver on this who decided to man the wheel. It makes it a lot easier. If we go around blaming passengers for auto accidents for the fact of just getting into the car or boat thats a pretty slippery slope.

Afterall, we are trying to prevent impaired people from driving. Accidents end right there if people dont drive impaired. We dont need to get into the nitty gritty of what the passengers knew/how impaired were they/etc etc

Reading some of the above comments, it's pretty easy to see how someone got millions from McDonald's after said someone spilled their own hot coffee onto their lap. The "victim" mentality in this country is unbelievable. Much like our welfare system, our court system has become a lazy way to make a quick buck and be set for life. Disgusting.

When the reports first came out that Jose had died, there was talks of mental instability. The rumor was he went out on the boat to clear his head, or at least that's how the media made it seem. If this story had been true, and IF his friends tagged along to keep him safe/calm/sane without any knowledge of his intoxication, then Jose could have been charged with murder/manslaughter/etc.

But that's not the case. The reports state that the 3 of them were together that night - all 3 had been drinking and 2/3 had cocaine in their system. Therefore they all made the choice to become intoxicated. Then they all made the choice, coherent or not, to get on the boat. With this being the truth...

Jose Fernandez is responsible for his own death. His one friend is responsible for their own death. His other friend is responsible for their own death. Simple as that.

What's really sickening is the families of the 2 people accompanying Jose are looking to sue Jose's fiancee - whom just had a baby last month might I add. I hope the judge dismisses any lawsuits against Jose Fernandez by these families. Of course, I don't have much faith in our judicial system to do that.

Accountability. Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Well its hard to take your opinion seriously when you start it off with ' it's pretty easy to see how someone got millions from McDonald's after said someone spilled their own hot coffee onto their lap"

What case are you referring too? If there is no specific case of that do you agree that some entity convinced you of that? You may want to see the movie 'hot coffee' that i have attached a link on youtube. Mcdonalds used that misinformation to convince people like you that this occurred but in reality she received far less than a million .

Id like to know the name of this person that actually received milions of dollars from mcdonalds due to fault on their own yet public opinion thinks that happened.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmLo_mpeltE


can also watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAzMMKIspPQ

In addition, you mention that that fiance of jose just had a baby. What does that have to do with anything? What about the passengers families?

People going to jail like to tell the judge that they have a family to take care of. The judge usualy says 'you should of thought of that before you committed the crime/driven drunk (you can fill that part in)

Even after the lawsuit. im sure the lawyers will work it out and leave enough money for the family. Many babys grow up without a million dollar trust fund. A lot of money has probably 'disappeared' right now as well. Is that fair to the victim's families?

I have emboldened parts of your post and will answer chronologically...

1) Not sure how the beginning of my post negates the seriousness of my post.

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebec...;s_Restaurants. "Negligence" and "lawsuit" are synonymous. Negligence is everywhere. The alternate terminology is "human error".

3) She is a new mother, and just lost her fiance. The deaths were not fault of her own. In fact, she had NOTHING to do with it. Your defense of the other 2 families is they just lost a loved one, therefore they should be entitled to some compensation. She just lost her loved one, and her new baby lost a dad. Where's their compensation?

4) So what you're suggesting is, because she was engaged to a rich athlete, her financials should automatically become a trick-or-treat bag where everyone can come grab some? "Don't worry, there will be enough candy in the end for you to enjoy some of it."

The McDonald's case is a bit of a bad story. Not to say the person was without fault and stupidity, but McDonald's had been warned by authorities numerous times before the incident that their coffee was served way too hot, especially for the drive through and people carrying the food themselves. They had been told to serve the coffee cooler and that they could be liable if a customer accidentally got burned after accidentally spilling it on themselves.

And, as someone who would go to McDonald's in college (many years ago), I specifically recall thinking that their coffee was extra hot and served hotter than anywhere else.

Well people to get injured all the time with people with no money and no insurance and you are right , there are no claims against those people and it doesnt matter if they have kids or a family . However if someone has money and/or insurance, they will likely get sued in a case such as Jose's


Which reminds me, there is probably insurance on the boat that is being pursued but the public will not know about that for this type of case. I discussed that earlier in this thread months ago.

Still having a family doesnt relieve anyone from a damages award or being a fault for an accident. The baby has nothing to do in terms of what happened in the accident and the victims damages. Collecting on the damages is a different story. The baby will be used as a sword, not a shield

right mcdonalds made a decison, they got X amount of business with their coffee which far exceeded the liability. Plus even if they did 'lose' a case, they can just make the public think it was for millions and millions of dollars and get people to back their side so they win both ways

I find the victim blaming hard to understand. If your child died because their driver was drunk I don't know how many people would say their child deserved it.

Trying to lighten this up a bit... :D

Regardless of the topic, I think I will support the view of the person who uses proper grammar.

Hard to believe one of these guys is a lawyer, and likely works with documents all day.

Attack the messenger and not the message. So someone for Nazis with great net54 grammar you will support. I will go on a limb and i will support the person that is against Nazi's with terrible net54 grammar.

Count me as an anti-nazi person no matter the grammar! Just lightening things up a bit...:cool:

What a waste of time...

Hey Packs - if you're dumb enough to let your child go off with a drunk then I guess that's what happens.

You can call those grown men victims, they were, but victims at their own choice and circumstance. Oh please, let's not twist this and say my post indicates that they wanted to die... sheesh...

What do you mean let, though? These men were adults, they were also someone's children. I think you're putting a lot of distance between what happened and what it means to a family. In my opinion a drunk driver is the only person responsible for the deaths of anyone in an accident. Passengers are victims, both inside of the vehicle and outside.

Put yourself in how Jose's mom feels, his fiance's view, but also put yourself in the position of the mother of one of his friends who died, and their fiance. It all depends on who's position your in, the view will be different.

You can say he was an idiot, or you can say he was a just a young guy given millions at a age where we all did things we wouldn't do now. Or to a lot lesser degree.

Everyone will have a different view on this, no one is right no one is wrong, it is what is, and the Marlins are paying the price as is my fantasy team....c'mon lighten up!

There's no definitive right or wrong answer here. If anything, I hope at the very least there's a lesson to be learned, to be passed down from one generation to the next, which simply put is that life is precious and that nothing (not one damn thing) is everlasting or guaranteed. My son just turned five and is very athletic and competitive and he's just recently started climbing on shit, and by shit I mean everything. I don't want to be this hovering parent (I'm recently divorced, so when he's with me he's mine) but when he gets up on the tabletop all I see is disaster. I mean literally all that would have to happen is loss of balance and a backward fall on tile and everything could change in an instant. I feel for everyone in this particular situation, it's unfathomable to me but maybe in the wider scope there's a lesson to be learned. I honestly just can't imagine, and the thought of putting myself in any of these parent's shoes is beyond heart wrenching, regardless of who's to blame

There is a right and wrong in what you can recover under the law though. People also vote to change what the law is so the opinions when translated to votes do matter. Thus, there has to be a policy on this and people cant just 'agree to disagree' The driver should be responsible and we need to stop victim shaming. If we prevent people from driving vehicles under the influence this all stops.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-cut-half.html

Is this girl to blame for being a passenger in a car where the driver had a .10 but said he had 'two beers' and is a police officer. She was 21, how is she supposed to know that he was drunk.

I took this horrible event as an opportunity to teach my three young sons. Yes, they were grown men, but they were also probably star-struck young men who felt privileged to be in the presence of a superstar. They probably felt that they would look "uncool" if they didn't go along with Jose's crazy request to go out on the boat at night or if they told him to slow down. I made much dumber decisions in my early 20's than I ever did as a child. Let's all take the time to sit our children down and remind them to have a mind of their own, be leaders, rather than followers, and to take a stance even when it is not popular or cool. I can't imagine how I would feel if I lost a son due to the stupidity and irresponsibility of another. That has to be exacerbated when that same irresponsible person is getting streets named after him and all of the pity and national attention. Just a horrible thing that happened. All we can do is teach our kids, so hopefully they don't make the same type of mistake.

Good luck! I pray for that level of possibility. One basic tenet of human nature is self sabotage - it is THE lifetime battle of human being - the only thing that varies is method and extent of the sabotage. HUGE battle from teen age to 30 (and beyond).

Driver responsibility - YES! Passenger responsibility (excepting force or lack of knowledge of the drivers state) - YES!

Orlando, that's it! You get it! Teach your kids the right thing and to make the best decisions.

Probably the most important lesson my father taught me was to walk away from situations that made me uncomfortable for any reason, not giving a crap who maligned me or called me names. Think for yourself and don't go along for anything you don't want to do. Speak up and walk away. Be your own man as you say. I've more than a few times refused to get into a car of someone wasted. Tried to take their keys away and if they were insistent just tell them I wanted no part of it.

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