So posting you dirty laundry on a public forum to encourage a lynch mob to join you after hearing half the story is "taking the high road".

Got it.;)

Direct your speech to Jonathan, not me sir.
GB

If I had a little more experience (and probably less respect for my elders as I'm only 33 years old) I would have returned the entire group of bats. But Kevin, I didn't want to 'bug' you and instead chalked it up to my inexperience. The problem is that you've been doing this for a long time. You said that on the phone too. When you told me that you were going to put them all in a single bat bag and ship them to Washington State (I actually live on Bowen Island in British Columbia and my post box in Washington State is about a 60 minute drive for me) I decided to call Greg and see if he wouldn't mind meeting you to pick them up because I was nervous about them rattling around together in a bag with no protection. When I get a bat from Greg it comes in a tube, bubble wrapped, with peanuts on either end, with bubble wrap around the tube and shipped in a big box.Unfortunately he couldn't meet you on the day you were driving to play golf with friends. We took about a week to see if I could make that meeting happen.

When Greg got the bats in hand he called me and said that they were no good. And Greg is the ONLY person I trust when talking about this stuff. He has been around a long time and has never once steered me wrong.
He didn't say they were no good but 'man oh man you are going to make a killing selling these things". As a matter of fact, it would have been easier for him to just reship them to me and hype them up so that I wouldn't have had a bad experience buying from you. He wasted his time unloading them to at least recoup me some of the money.

One of the most discouraging things about you is that after speaking to Brandon, coupled with you having experience in this hobby, you could have sold me even a decent ball that was a pro model for the 600 dollars. You showed me pictures of balls in your collection that I know now to be pro baseballs. To me, it's clear that you flat out ripped me off. The ONE ball you choose to offer me ends up being a dud? What are the odds of that happening? With all those balls you showed me, and their boxes in cubes, you choose to sell me the one ball that ends up being a dud? Come on, I might only be 33 but I have common sense.

I told you on the phone when we spoke the I've been doing this for around 18 months, and that I'm practically brand new in the equipment side of the hobby. I told you that I do this to be able to sit with my 5 year old son and talk about the game. Anyone on this board who has taken a second to have a chat with me would know exactly the kind of person I am, and you took advantage of that person.

At the end of the day, I struggled even posting the original message, because on some baseline, being associated with negativity isn't something I like to be a part of. When I spoke to Leon I told him that I needed some time to think about whether or not to even do it. I know how these things can go. The people that don't know me can certainly come to their own conclusions. However, I gave you a chance to refund the money. I was nice about it. I told you that even though the condition of the bats wouldn't fit in my collection I was ok with it. I wrote that in an email to you. I never ONE TIME emailed you or called asking to return the bats. I had already chalked that up to a loss. The GREAT deal you gave me resulted in a $600 ball worth $50 bucks, and a loss of around $800 on bats that were not properly described.

Let's take it a step further. One of the bats was a Winchester. It was completely cracked. The crack was hidden under grip tape. You never said, one of the bats I'm selling you is completely cracked but the crack is hidden under grip tape so you'd never really know unless you take the tape off..."
You kept that information to yourself. I have no clue how you wouldn't have known that it was cracked, but maybe you didn't know for the same reason you say you didn't know about the baseball. The whole thing stinks.

You know what you did, and now you can undo it. For someone to be in the hobby a long time and take advantage of a new collector is sad. It's something that every other person on this board has NOT done to me.

600 dollars it's peanuts. This whole deal started with a cheap Piper Bat. It developed into a phone conversation where you heard firsthand about my inexperience. Then you sunk your teeth in.

Finally, I fully expect that some members will think I've done something wrong, and that's ok. All I can do is lay out the facts and try to explain my point of view. We are talking about a 600 dollar baseball, sold from an experienced collector to an admitted novice. Those are the facts.

6:37 AM and the kids are up. I check the thread all the time and will answer any other questions that are asked of me.

Jonathan

Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

Also I never told him it was from 1896.

I refund for things when customers aren't happy with them.
GB

edited because I am getting too heated. Comment not necessary.

Jason, I get it, all I am doing is reiterating what is on the top of all the B/S/T threads (not placed by me). Before I make ANY purchase of something I'm not sure about, I do some research on my end first, that's all that was meant to imply.

Yes. He tried to sell the bats he didn't like, and take a loss, without even contacting the seller. Then he tried to resolve this amicably over and over and over privately. So, yeah, to me that is taking the high road. Had he posted this without ever trying to get it resolved privately first I wouldn't have the same opinion. He also ran his first post by me before posting to make sure it was ok. Of course it is/was. But that is just my take that he took the high road. Maybe he should just shut up and get taken, right?

And I should reiterate this had already gone on for several days BEFORE it was posted about. When the crazy statement about "some deals are good and some aren't" came out, is when it went public.

So just return the guys money on the ball and be done with it. Instead, your reputation keeps taking a beating on Net54. Again, just my 2¢.

Jeff

I almost barfed when I read that. How could an intelligent person say that?

Agreed everyone, just tired from a long, hard weekend. I've refunded $$ (only one time when a person wasn't happy) so agreed, Kevin does need to do the right thing here.

I have posted thousands of things where I went back and said "I said that?, what was I thinking" ....no worries......

Amen to that.

REA Auction
 

220 items at the REA auction?. That's actually pretty impressive....this deal just looks/smells bad all over. Give the man his $500 bucks and move on. Is it worth getting this much unwanted attention? Sounds like you are a pretty successful dealer..your call; just an outsider's viewpoint.

First of all I'm not a dealer I'm just a collector who is parting with his collection because I'm moving south next month and can't take it with me I kept some selected items for myself that's it. These items would describe and photograph for him I don't understand Jonathan what you don't get about that and what you did not see before you purchase these items we had many phone conversations not just one. I said he would get his refund that's it. I will return his money but Jonathan I'm certainly not shedding a tear over your purchase you saw everything you had plenty of photos descriptions I told you about the crack that under the tape

By the way this will be my last post on in this matter so let's move on

Jonathan wants to keep bashing me he's more than welcome to because I have thick skin Jonathan it doesn't bother me in the least.

Maybe LL should lock the thread once this happens, no need to go on, IMO.

However it all plays out, I think it took real balls to post this. [emoji1]

I saw that and thought about it. But locking threads isn't something that is frequently or casually done. Kevin (hi Kevin) is doing the right thing and kudo's for that.

Um, he MAY be doing the right thing. He's said all along he'd give the refund... In October. I don't see him addressing the timeline for refund issue. If he is refunding immediately then the thread (and community) seem to have served their purpose, which is great.

Agreed. The refund should be immediate, not 4 months from now.

PayPal covers the buyer for purchases for up to 6 months. Time to end the polite conversation and get your money back. Good luck.

And originally he was only going to refund the difference his similar ball sold for in the REA auction except now we learn that ball is in the original box and probably in much better shape since he kept it with the original box. So how could he fairly make up the difference between those two balls? How was that ever a fair offer?

If I'm reading this right (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the total purchase was $2500. We know the ball was $600, so that means the bats were $1900. Is this correct?

The OP felt that the bats were misrepresented and cut his loses by selling them on eBay. I think I speak for most everyone here, but if I made a purchase of that size and felt it was misrepresented, I would ask for a refund, not cut my loses by turning around and selling them on eBay.

A few months later he feels the ball is misrepresented and now wants a refund (and I think he deserves one). I guess the part of this that doesn't make sense to me is why he was willing to cut his loses on the $1900 worth of bats, but wants a refund (again, which I think he's entitled to) on the $600 ball? Why not cut his loses on that too? Why the bats, not the ball?

It just looks strange to have the bats shipped to a third party and then immediately posted on eBay. I understand the explanation for this, but others have said the bats looked nice. This is the part that I just can't wrap my head around - why be willing to immediately cut your loses on $1900 in worthless bats, but not on a worthless ball?

Last, if the bats and ball were shipped together (I'm assuming they were), why did Greg immediately dismiss the bats as worthless, but not the ball?

One other thing, if the bats were received and immediately thought to be misrepresented, shouldn't that have raised some red flags on the ball too at the time?

Is the part true about not giving a refund until another auction in October?

The bats seemed to be mainly a condition issue which, while still a problem, is a much more understandable one, condition being subjective. The ball however had an objective problem. Buyer claims he was told it was something other than what it is. That's fraud as opposed to a difference of opinion. If it was an honest mistake, fine, but it's still a different caliber problem than disagreeing over condition.

There's a clinic in Dallas Texas that allows you to donate one of your balls for like 30 grand. You can always recoupe your losses that way if all else fails. Lol

All jokes aside, this is a transaction gone completely wrong.

If it was a 30 dollar ball would we be here discussing this?

I agree. So many unanswered questions.

As I have stated before, if the ball is not as stated, a refund is in order. But the bat story is crazy.

I think the the guy was looking to flip and the 'cut his losses' story is the same thing as 'going to sell at the national' or 'bought it for my personal collection' it goes in the category of who cares if true or not ..

but the ball wasnt what he paid for so he didnt want to sell that at sure loss...

thats my theory...more info can change my mind but thats what my thoughts are now..

To put it as simply as possible, I collect SGC 60 T206 cards that (in my opinion) are graded properly. SGC 60 cards can have a whole bunch of different conditions. Nobody is perfect. So if I buy an SGC card on eBay with a blurry photo, and it gets to me with corners that I deem too round for my collection, I try to recoup as much money as I can and move on.
If I buy a SGC 60 Green Cobb, only to find out it's counterfeit, I think I would have a hard time reselling it to recoup my investment and move on.

My options with the bats were plentiful. Greg was kind enough to list them on eBay and I took a loss. The story about the bats (in my opinion) has nothing to do with the ball. And I said that in various emails to Kevin. His opinion on condition is different than mine. He thinks they are SGC 60. I think they are slabbed SGC 60 but look like a 30. We've all seen things like this before, and almost everyone has more experience than I do.

What I can't for the life of me understand is how we all seem to be skipping over the most salient point. How in the world, could someone with so much experience that they have 220 pieces that REA deems worthy for their auction, choose the one ball in his entire collection that turns out to be not what he says it is.
How is that humanly possible? He's not new to this hobby.

I have bought many many items on this forum. I've had every single deal be flawless.

I really tried to not post again as Kevin says he will be refunding my money (even though no timeline has been spoken about) but I really don't see the harm in NOT returning the bats because it was simply a condition disagreement, that I didn't even once bring up to him!

As always, I'm here to answer any further questions. I just hope that Kevin will let me know when the refund is coming.
Jonathan Schwartz

It so easy to refund..it takes like 5 seconds...not sure what the hold up is

Yeah, good talk on the phone Jonathan.
What is the hold up on the refund...on the ball?

Your guess is as good as mine, Jimmy.
I think that with today being the 4th he must be busy with family commitments. Totally understandable if that's the case. If not, I don't know what the holdup is.

payment
 

Gotta have it to pay it???

I'm guessing he doesn't have it. But that's the problem. It's a guess because he hasn't communicated with OP (and secondarily to future potential buyers). Communication doesn't seem to be his forte to be frank. Hope for all involved this is resolved soon.

so someone with 1000s of dollars of merchandise and in the business of selling a ton of stuff doesnt have a few hundred dollars...you would think someone in teh business in buying an selling has a few hundred dollars (of at least credit no less by credit card) to refund..

i got a feeling if this seller was arrested for something and needed 500 dollars bail to give to a bondsman he wouldnt have to get it together..he would have it

Re: the refund thing, I bought an item from a big auction house which they then shipped to the wrong address. This AH made me wait until they had received a refund from the post office before they would refund me. I thought it was BS and will never bid with them again. You should refund immediately every time.

Agreed. Kevin- If you have such a collection of quality stuff to have 220 items listed in REA my guess is that you have 600 bucks laying around to send Jonathon a refund and put this issue to rest. Adam

What AH?

Maybe a couple members will also stop bidding with them.

Some will only bid on their items IF they really want them and MIGHT pass on something not real important.

Most will say that sucks and keep bidding just like before because it didn't happen to them.

;):eek::):D:cool:

I will send you a PM. I'm not looking to derail. It was BS though and I'll never understand why a professional AH would make a buyer wait for them to get a refund before refunding the buyer.

right that classic with deadbeats...if they do the wrong (and are in the business to get customers ) they should be the one waiting to collect not the person that was wronged

Not sure why this refund is taking this long....
I think paypal works 24/7 and banks are certainly open on the East Coast at 1pm if needed.
Super professional.

Still no refund Jonathan?

Nope. I'm still waiting.

Since this works the opposite way I want my item back and then I will pay

Actually that's completely reasonable. I assumed it had already been returned. Even Ebay makes you return the item first.

No problem returning the money I just want my item back

Kevin, can you please PM me your address and I'll have the ball in transit tomorrow. Thank you.

Do I have to say... insure it and get a signature?

I will absolutely be doing both...but I need his address first. I've PMd him asking for his address as well but have yet to get a response.

I got an empty box from an AH. Called them right away, waited 4 months, and then was told I'd need to provide character references before they could refund me. And the guy said "if I refund you're money I'm out the card and the money, right now you're only missing the card, so that seems fairer"
Finally got my money back, never bid with the guy again at any AH he's been to.

Takes a while to build a reputation, but seconds to kill it.

I guess if he never gives you his address you never get a refund? :eek:

Jonathan please keep us apprised of any developments.

Good luck,
Greg

It only took 136 posts on this thread to get the story straight and to get the refund agreed to by the seller .
I wonder how many posts it will take now to get the address issue resolved .
😀😀😀
Glad it seems to have worked out in principle now .

Charge it back. Money to you within 48 hours. Enough with the silliness.

good point...after all when a buyer pays he doesnt have the merchandise and is out the money so whats the big deal of a seller refunding first.

You an get the address from your PayPal transaction.

BTW, the 1933 goldsmith catalog show the Atlantic ball with box selling for 25 cents

Any time someone files for a refund through Ebay or Paypal they have to return the merchandise first. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to have the ball returned before giving a refund.
James

I agree, but it wouldnt be the first time ever a refund is issued as good will first...after all you can always get the refund back if the item isnt returned

I would love nothing more than to return the ball but he has yet to send me his address. It's all packed up and ready to go.
I PMd him this morning for his address too. No response.

I checked the paypal transaction and it doesn't show his address anywhere.

seller is being an ass, isn't the valuation of the ball like $30-$40? if so the seller can certainly refund the $600 first, it's not like the dude didn't just buy $1500 worth of bats from you! if you have 220 items in REA and numerous PC balls, then you knew the ball you sold was shitty...end of story.

Unbelievable. Refund him the $600, Kevin, and be done with it. Stop playing games.

Oh boo hoo like I'm supposed to feel bad about a guy that waited for months to send the item how many times do we have to go through this that he'll get his money back so stop the nonsense

You do realize that you're insulting and ticking off pretty much all of the potential bidders of your REA lots, don't you?

Well, I doubt that's actually gong to have any impact on anything. I for one would bid on anything I wanted. Of course if HE was handling the sale that would be a different story.

I highly doubt it will have any affect on bidding. It has been proven over and over that people will buy cards from complete scum. If Bill Mastro had a cheap PSA graded T206 HOFer for sale people would line up to buy/bid on it.

If it's only a $40 baseball and you owe him $600, why are you demanding the ball back first?

Kevin,
I don't know you, and I feel fortunate I don't. You misrepresented an item. If proven to be intentional, that could be construed as fraud. Your unwillingness to make this an easy transaction is also confounding. So you need the 30 dollar ball back before you refund the $600 you charged? That seems a little ridiculous. Refund him $570 now and hold back $30 until you get your ball back. Your complaint of 4 months time passing is weak as well. Aren't you lucky it took him 4 months to figure out he had purchased something that was misrepresented, you got an interest free loan for 4 months. I think if you reread this thread you will do the right thing, cause the thread is anything but flattering for your image.


Mark Medlin

Wow, some seriously bad mojo here. What a way to alienate potential customers, many of whom call this site home.
Jeff Betts

Yup. Sad. True, but sad.

So I gotta sit here and listen to you vindictive people constantly. I told you I would refund his money what is the problem here. I have never had a problem dealing with anybody on here selling items he's gonna get his money but this is why people run from this site cuz they just can't stand all you people that live in such a perfect world. Time to move on people

So the guy that ultimately had to go to the court of public opinion and the subjects of that court are vindictive? Wow. That's rich.

Every time this thread pops up, this is what I picture in my mind.

You know Leon I used to really like coming on this site I've done a lot of deals in the BST with guys always loved reading the posts but I'm done, remove me. I'm finished here...

Well said.

Guys he said he's liquidating his collection. Basically he doesn't care about repercussions because he's never making another deal. That's also why booting him (at his request) is also meaningless.