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-   -   Negro League Postcard on E-Bay (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=198478)

Fred 12-18-2014 09:33 PM

As Tiny Tim said in A Christmas Carol: "God bless Us, Every One!"

sbfinley 12-18-2014 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pariah1107 (Post 1356509)
What do you mean? Everything about the auction is questionable; a rare PC with no efforts to authenticate it goes up for sale on a knowingly unethical website without tangible evidence from experts. UH, yeah, I'll buy it.

There were a lot more eyes hawking that PC than the handful of bidders. I don't really collect Negro League or Cuban baseball items in general, but I do make random weekly checks for search terms like "antique baseball", "baseball cabinet", or "Cuban Baseball" as I suspect many here do just to see what pops up. There were probably at least 50-75 collectors hoping it slipped through the cracks (me included) and could be nabbed cheap. Like Dan said a quick look of the sellers other items shows he deals in run of the mill antiques and being bases in Conn. he item likely filtered out of the the city (where the team was based) into his hands.

packs 12-19-2014 07:36 AM

Not sure what makes the corner tear suspicious. Both of the top corners are deeply creased with the top left one nearly falling off. I think it's safe to assume the bottom corner was creased into oblivion and fell off.

joshleland 12-19-2014 08:37 PM

The Rookie Dihigo
 
I like this post on many levels

I knew exactly what this postcard was when I saw it a few days ago because this is the second one I have seen
The other one was in beautiful condition and I bought it down in Cuba from a well known (at least down there) collector/dealer
I was down there with the great Luis Munoz, the true dean of Cuban baseball memorabilia
Luis is unique in terms of not just knowing the sport and the stuff, that he has owned most of it, but also because he was the first and started us all in this very unique, mysterious and fascinating field
I have known many of the other followers of this field quite well such as Jeff Eastland and Yuyo Ruiz
But apart from Luis Munoz I respect greatly Ryan Cristoff (who really knows his stuff and was the first to promote it which has been of great benefit
There will never be another Richard Merkin who bought pretty much everything Luis showed him
Richard was one of my closest friends and legitimately a mentor to me
Boy do we all miss Merkin, we were so lucky to have him in our hobby
But I still have the hat he wore on the cover of the Beatles Sgt. Peppers album to remember him by
I sold him the best RPPC of all, the Lelands Giants team postcard with Rube Foster

I remember Luis getting a little crazy when he saw the Cuban stars piece
I knew it was Dihigo but he said he was a rookie right away
He did not specify 1922 or 1923 but he said "first couple of years" as it did not matter
We're not talking robin yount here
Ryan is right on target with his evaluation and the way he approaches it
He is basing it on the look of Dihigo and he is a baby here
Luis evaluated it the exact same way
Kudos to you Ryan

After I bought it I recall Luis wanting to buy it from me but I don't recall if I let him have it or not
Probably yes
I hope so because if not it was taken along with all my other stuff by U.S. Customs on the way back home
That is another story for another time
The cards ultimate demise would have to have been burned along with all the cigars and other things they grab
I had no cigars but they view artifacts like these the same way
A sad but true fact, that is hopefully being changed as we speak

Anyway, I see absolutely nothing nefarious going on here in the bidding
This was a guy who had no idea what he had but it didn't matter because the correct search words were there and ultimately the right people saw it
And I don't believe anyone got "caught" bidding $4000+
They simply wanted it badly and that is what they were willing to pay
Look at what negro league pieces bring sometimes and these are many of the same people collecting Cuban baseball
I have put in some pretty crazy numbers on eBay when I really want something and I don't recall regretting it much in the long term
You can't go to the store and buy Cuban baseball postcards at least not any I know of
Except Richard Merkin walked in off the street to my office and bought that Lelands Giants postcard right off my desk
But that was a different "store" and a different era
Things will never be the same

As for RPPC's being promotional or not, you are looking at it the wrong way
This was merely a format, another choice in choosing what type of photo you got from the photographer
Through the years the have been CDV's, cabinets, mounted, and all different sizes
Real photo postcards were just another choice, another format to use
Interestingly, the Cuban collectors and dealers up until a few years ago didn't even realize the huge premium Americans were willing to pay for postcard backs
Basically I and others would pay the same for blank back photos as for these infinitely more desirable RPPC's
Jackpot
I remember going over an untold number of postcard sized baseball photos saying a little prayer each time I turned them over hoping to see a postcard back
And btw rarely were they ever posted and I do not believe the photographers cartouche was in the bottom right corner
Besides it does not look like it would have been
It's just not fancy enough, doesn't have the look of an more expensive studio piece
And the guy who sold me the Dihigo rookie over the course of the relationship realized this not so secret trade secret eventually but not before I got the Cuban Stars on that fateful balmy Havana afternoon
But it didn't really matter
It could also have been autographed by the team and Fidel and Che and he still would not have fully appreciated it

Interestingly, the one point rarely discussed in this thread is the condition
When I put my meager snipe bid of 888$ the missing corner played a major role for me
But I was wrong
Not because I personally did not like the corner missing but not realizing that others would see past it and rightfully so
Whoever said that it did not matter much (Ryan?) was spot on
In the greatest things where there are no other options it shouldn't matter
And traditionally condition has never played as anywhere near as major a role as in the Cuban material
Cuban stuff is almost never in good condition
The bugs eat those little holes in the paper
The weather is a killer, water damaging almost everything somewhat
And most cubans did not take care of their stuff because of cultural reasons
land
So we feel lucky to have in any condition
It shows great sophistication for collectors to realize all this and not care so much about condition
This thread shows changes and I feel progress in our hobby and maps out the future somewhat for those willing to open their eyes and listen
That makes sense right?

Have a happy holiday everyone and yes my auction is up on the net as we speak
Some great stuff there
Feel free to email me directly if you have any questions about anything
Also catalogues are out soon
Free catalogues to all net54 members as always
Just email me and I'll take care of it
Jevans@optonline.net

Sincerely

Joshua Leland Evans
Chairman
Lelands.com
Since 1969

h2oya311 12-20-2014 02:17 PM

Thanks Josh -

I sure hope another still exists! I'm holding out hope that I didn't miss my one opportunity to land such a great card!!

Exhibitman 12-20-2014 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshleland (Post 1356930)
I like this post on many levels

I knew exactly what this postcard was when I saw it a few days ago because this is the second one I have seen
The other one was in beautiful condition and I bought it down in Cuba from a well known (at least down there) collector/dealer
I was down there with the great Luis Munoz, the true dean of Cuban baseball memorabilia
Luis is unique in terms of not just knowing the sport and the stuff, that he has owned most of it, but also because he was the first and started us all in this very unique, mysterious and fascinating field
I have known many of the other followers of this field quite well such as Jeff Eastland and Yuyo Ruiz
But apart from Luis Munoz I respect greatly Ryan Cristoff (who really knows his stuff and was the first to promote it which has been of great benefit
There will never be another Richard Merkin who bought pretty much everything Luis showed him
Richard was one of my closest friends and legitimately a mentor to me
Boy do we all miss Merkin, we were so lucky to have him in our hobby
But I still have the hat he wore on the cover of the Beatles Sgt. Peppers album to remember him by
I sold him the best RPPC of all, the Lelands Giants team postcard with Rube Foster

I remember Luis getting a little crazy when he saw the Cuban stars piece
I knew it was Dihigo but he said he was a rookie right away
He did not specify 1922 or 1923 but he said "first couple of years" as it did not matter
We're not talking robin yount here
Ryan is right on target with his evaluation and the way he approaches it
He is basing it on the look of Dihigo and he is a baby here
Luis evaluated it the exact same way
Kudos to you Ryan

After I bought it I recall Luis wanting to buy it from me but I don't recall if I let him have it or not
Probably yes
I hope so because if not it was taken along with all my other stuff by U.S. Customs on the way back home
That is another story for another time
The cards ultimate demise would have to have been burned along with all the cigars and other things they grab
I had no cigars but they view artifacts like these the same way
A sad but true fact, that is hopefully being changed as we speak

Anyway, I see absolutely nothing nefarious going on here in the bidding
This was a guy who had no idea what he had but it didn't matter because the correct search words were there and ultimately the right people saw it
And I don't believe anyone got "caught" bidding $4000+
They simply wanted it badly and that is what they were willing to pay
Look at what negro league pieces bring sometimes and these are many of the same people collecting Cuban baseball
I have put in some pretty crazy numbers on eBay when I really want something and I don't recall regretting it much in the long term
You can't go to the store and buy Cuban baseball postcards at least not any I know of
Except Richard Merkin walked in off the street to my office and bought that Lelands Giants postcard right off my desk
But that was a different "store" and a different era
Things will never be the same

As for RPPC's being promotional or not, you are looking at it the wrong way
This was merely a format, another choice in choosing what type of photo you got from the photographer
Through the years the have been CDV's, cabinets, mounted, and all different sizes
Real photo postcards were just another choice, another format to use
Interestingly, the Cuban collectors and dealers up until a few years ago didn't even realize the huge premium Americans were willing to pay for postcard backs
Basically I and others would pay the same for blank back photos as for these infinitely more desirable RPPC's
Jackpot
I remember going over an untold number of postcard sized baseball photos saying a little prayer each time I turned them over hoping to see a postcard back
And btw rarely were they ever posted and I do not believe the photographers cartouche was in the bottom right corner
Besides it does not look like it would have been
It's just not fancy enough, doesn't have the look of an more expensive studio piece
And the guy who sold me the Dihigo rookie over the course of the relationship realized this not so secret trade secret eventually but not before I got the Cuban Stars on that fateful balmy Havana afternoon
But it didn't really matter
It could also have been autographed by the team and Fidel and Che and he still would not have fully appreciated it

Interestingly, the one point rarely discussed in this thread is the condition
When I put my meager snipe bid of 888$ the missing corner played a major role for me
But I was wrong
Not because I personally did not like the corner missing but not realizing that others would see past it and rightfully so
Whoever said that it did not matter much (Ryan?) was spot on
In the greatest things where there are no other options it shouldn't matter
And traditionally condition has never played as anywhere near as major a role as in the Cuban material
Cuban stuff is almost never in good condition
The bugs eat those little holes in the paper
The weather is a killer, water damaging almost everything somewhat
And most cubans did not take care of their stuff because of cultural reasons
land
So we feel lucky to have in any condition
It shows great sophistication for collectors to realize all this and not care so much about condition
This thread shows changes and I feel progress in our hobby and maps out the future somewhat for those willing to open their eyes and listen
That makes sense right?

Have a happy holiday everyone and yes my auction is up on the net as we speak
Some great stuff there
Feel free to email me directly if you have any questions about anything
Also catalogues are out soon
Free catalogues to all net54 members as always
Just email me and I'll take care of it
Jevans@optonline.net

Sincerely

Joshua Leland Evans
Chairman
Lelands.com
Since 1969

Brilliant post.

joeadcock 12-20-2014 05:51 PM

Nice post Joshua

baseball tourist 12-21-2014 09:40 AM

Interesting post Josh. Re the loss of the items purchased. -Too bad that you didn't drive up to and then fly out of Toronto (or Montreal) as many of the Americans I met while in Cuba on various trips did. The Cuban authorities wouldn't stamp their passports but instead would issue an insert page that could be discarded once off Cuban soil. Each brought back cigars etc and then mailed them back to themselves from Canada (sometimes sending the cigar bands separately from the cigars). Then driving across the boarder to Detroit, NYC etc.

Please don't judge me as promoting this behaviour as I am just reporting what I saw repeated many times. I certainly wouldn't have an issue personally as I believe the embargo to be outdated and unfortunate.

joshleland 12-21-2014 11:59 PM

Cuban travels and travails
 
Thanks for your kind words

Chris, it wouldn't have mattered
I went through the Dominican Republic which is pretty much the same
The problem was my style, I was just too visible
People got jealous and I became a pawn in the jealous struggle between two of the biggest Cuban collectibles dealers
Sounds ridiculous but it's true
I had been there before in the olden days with Mastro, Lifson, and Rosen so took in stride
But those guys aren't going to shoot you

I'm talking about the Cubans

Jeffrompa 12-22-2014 12:51 AM

Couldn't agree more . The prices of some of the RPPC's has really skyrocketed in the last five years .


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