Crying shame
 

Its just a shame, totally not right, that Baseball and/or Football Hall of Fame does not put in Bo. think about it…hall of FAME. Nobody was ever as famous at one point as Bo, except perhaps Ruth or Satchell Paige or Jordan. Of all the two bit barely make it players the Hall has allowed in, come on folks, give Bo some love, respect and acknowledgement he is well deserved due.

1. Mays
2. Aaaron
3. Maddux
4. Rose
5. Griffey

As to the question of Jeter - how about greatest living short stop. Would you take Ozzie Smith over Jeter? Jeter better at the plate, Ozzie in the field. Both were very successful in regular season and post season.

My other nominee for the Freaking Amazing Player Cut Down by Injury wing of the Hall would be J.R. Richard. I'm not going to bother dumping out stats here...just remember how dominant this guy was whenever I listened to him pitch against my Dodgers. And the season he suffered his stroke really felt to me like it could have been his finest.

Richard is a great rags to riches to rags to riches story and a player whose Life in Cards will definitely become part of my collection.

Attachment 169247

I saw Aaron late in his career. However, I have to admit that Junior was the most exciting if not the best I ever saw play in person. Although he was a bit of a prim donna I feel privileged to have witnessed his career from beginning to end. He was absolutely the most complete player of his generation.

Even pre steroids I would rate Bonds right up there with and possibly ahead of Griffey. Not quite the home run power but everything else, and he was a better overall hitter in part because of his phenomenal ability to draw walks.

Ripkin

Mays and Koufax. I can't consider someone who was never the best player in the game to be the best living player (looking at you Aaron).

Mays over Aaron & agree on Koufax
 

Mays over Aaron by a nose (or more) and I have long shared the writer's opinion of Sandy Koufax. Koufax was phenomenal for the last 5 of his 12 seasons. However, in his first 7 years, he broke below 3.50 ERA only once: 1955 when he was 3.02 in 4 decisions. After 1961 he was brilliant; the brilliance was just too brief to rank as Greatest Living. For that title, I guess I'd go with Maddux among pitchers. (Randy might have gotten the nod had he given more than half-hearted efforts in his final games at Seattle (9-10 won-lost record on 4.33 ERA before posting a spiffy 10-1 mark and 1.28 ERA at Houston) in 1998.

Never use your 1990 Fleer cards to get the spelling of names.:D

Many rightfully have Berra somewhere on their lists. Trying to understand how he could get only 65% of the HOF vote in his first year of eligibility. Was there some large faction of writers who still regarded him as active since he was managing?

Mays
Aaron
Doerr

In my opinion he is vastly over-rated.

Im just saying i think he was better than jeter

430 HR, 3200 hits, 2 MVPs, about a zillion all star appearances and he was vastly overrated how?

Name career hits HR RBI AVG OPS MVPS GGs top 3 MVPs World Series champ
MAYS 3283 660 1903 302 941 2 12 6 1
Aaron 3771 755 2297 302 928 1 3 7 1
XXXXX 2519 520 1603 317 991 3 2 8 1


Sorry for formatting.....
what a skewed audience though.

player xxxxx should have won 5 MVPs as he was 2nd twice to Barry Bonds. 8 time top 3 in MVP voting 8 times in 10 years.
Player xxxxx is still putting up numbers, and unquestionably without peer during a 10 year period was considered the best player in the game....and likely the most consistent player from his rookie year to 12th season ever to play the game.
Player xxxx hit 3 home runs in a world series game to boot.
of course its Albert Pujols.
BTW, not saying he is 'the greatest living ballplayer' but it is amazing some of the names that HAVE been mentioned, and he hasn't been mentioned once.

Without move to bandbox Atlanta no one would be picking Aaron over Mays.

You can try and make a case for Ripken, there's certainly an arguement to be made but he only led the league in a few offensive categories and only a few times. His .276 lifetime BA is more indicative of his longevity in the game rather than being a total monster in the batters box. However, if you're adding intangibles like being a great role model and sportsman, then you can make an agruement for him. Look at Barry Bonds, he was a monster in the box. Yes, it was assisted by PEDs but he was a monster. Now on the other hand, he was a total horses ass. If you let that negate his monster ability on the field then Ripken by far is the better choice.

Oh yeah, let me clarify something. I can't stand Barry Bonds. I think what he did to the game was just wrong. I think sticking around long enough to hit more HRs than Aaron was a classless act. I only wish MLB could have suspended him long enough to not allow that to happen.

Did anyone mention a pitcher as their choice?

Easiest answer EVER...

WILLIE MAYS

Hes on my list , post #50 on this thread

Makes more sense than Pete Rose. :rolleyes:

Bo might have become a great baseball player, but (paraphrasing Bill James) you aren't a great player just because you could have been a great player.

I would take Jeter over Ozzie, and Ripken over both of them. :D

Ken I think we tend to think of the question as referring to retired not active players.

Bo not great?
 

Bo wasn't a could have been great player...he was a great player. Refresh yourself with a youtube tour of Bo highlights. Not great players don't get the media attention, mega endorsements, and a nations infatuation the way Bo did.

Now if you mean he wasn't a great player only because he didn't play long enough, you have a case. Apparently, both Halls of Fame side with this conclusion.

There are sometimes exceptions to the rule. In Bo's case, imho, he was an exception.

Bo would definitely be in any Hall of Awesomeness. Unbelieveable to be an all-star in both sports.

Bo hit .250 lifetime. He had great potential but I wouldn't call him a great player. And for all his remarkable speed he didn't steal much.

Bonds hands down.

Willie Mays

Bench's lung surgery was 1st week of December '72.

On the original question, Mays.

1. Willie Mays
2. Hank Aaron
3. Pete Rose
4. Mike Schmidt
5. Randy Johnson
6. Ken Griffey, Jr
7. Johnny Bench
8. Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton - tie
9. Cal Ripken
10. Rickey Henderson

I'd put Bonds no lower than #3 if not for the steroids. And Clemens would make the top 10 also. The bad part is that Bonds could probably have cracked the top 10 without the 'roids.

I'd put Frank Robinson at #3.

1. Mays/Bonds
3. Aaron
4. Maddux
5. Griff Jr.

Deon couldn't tackle. :o

For me, it's:

1. Willie Mays
2. Hank Aaron
3. Ken Griffey Jr
4. Barry Bonds
5. Dave Winfield
6. Rickey Henderson

Pitchers:

1. Randy Johnson
2. Sandy Koufax
3. Steve Carlton (can't believe he hasn't gotten more votes)
4. Roger Clemens
5. Greg Maddux
6. Nolan Ryan
7. Tom Seaver
8. Pedro Martinez

Steve

ARod was better than both. And a lot better than Ripken.

According to Baseball-references career WAR
 

Bonds 162.4
Mays 156.2
Aaron 142.6
Clemens 140.3...(note precipitous drop off after these 4)
Arod 116.0
Rickey Henderson 110.8
Seaver 110.5
Frank Robinson 107.2
Maddux 106.8
Schmidt 106.5
Randy Johnson 102.1
Joe Morgan 100.3

followed by Pujols, Niekro, Yaz, Ripken, Blyleven, Kaline, Boggs, Perry, Carlton who are all in the 90's...couple of surprises in there !!


-Paul

The Sey Hey Kid

Sandy Koufax

In my opinion the only reason Ripke those milestones was because of the "iron man" streak. Regardless of what the record books say I will never view him as more durable than Gherig, not even close. Lowest BA in the 3000 hit club. Next closest was Rickey and he was a leadoff hitter. I don't give any weight to ASG appearances because it has turned into a popularity contest.

Would probably edge Aaron over Mays. Jim Brown as all time best living.

I'll second this.

Hank Aaron and Sandy Koufax. ---Brian Powell

+1

Willie Mays (although I may be partial to the heroes of my youth)

Top 5...plus 1!
 

1. Mays
2. Aaron
3. Koufax
4. Brooks Robinson
5. Ryan

and 1 more for good luck...

6. Cal Ripken Jr

Mays
 

"Say Hey" Willie Mays but I wanted so BAD to say Koufax because he was MONEY.

#1 Willie
#2 Sandy
#3 Hank
#4 Mike Trout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
#5 Berra
#6 Pete Rose

peace, mike

+infinity

I will say that I am a bonds hater of immense magnitude, but I can't in good conscience leave him off an honest list. For all the hate for the steroids era, everyone had their crutch. From Cobbs sharpened cleats, to the vaseline balls, 15 inch mounds and Greenies like halloween candy, there was never a "clean" era in my mind. With the magnifing glass the current players live under, we may be seeing the cleanest it's even been. I know this will be controversial, but here goes -

My list is -
Aaron
Mays
Bonds
Rose
Clemens

and an honorable mention to Ryan and Koufax.

Best players overall I gotta say Hank Aaron and Rickey Henderson.

Two Words.....

Sidd Finch

Mario Mendoza
 

He set the standard by which all hitters are compared.

How about Mike Trout? OK, maybe someday. For now it's got to be Mays or Aaron.

I am with the Bonds crowd. Doesn't matter to me. He was light years better than the other 80% of players who also cheated during this era. We judge Ruth against his contemporaries why not Bonds as well considering they all cheated.

Being an "old school" type guy who grew up idolizing Mickey Mantle & the players of the late '40's & '50's, I am beginning to think Mike Trout may turn out to be one of the greatest of all!

He reminds me of a young Mickey w/ all the tools, BUT, none of the frailties that beset Mantle.

This kid may break ALL the records before he's done.

1. Willie Mays
2. Hank Aaron
3. Bob Gibson
4. Yogi Berra (and not Johnny Bench who gets all the hype but Yogi was CLUTCH).

Mays
Aaron
Frank Robinson

Can't see that Jeter is in the top 20

I agree with Mays/Aaron/Frank

A side question between Mays, Aaron, and Frank Robinson. Who was better defensively in the outfield ? Who had the better throwing arm ? Who was faster in the outfield ? Who was the better clutch hitter ? Power ? Better Base runner ? More speed on the basepaths ? etc,...

Pete Rose

While we all concur he hung on too long, Steve Carlton would round that rotation out nicely.

Playing in Milwaukee and Atlanta has that effect. OPS+ of 140+ for 19 straight years, WAR of 6+ for 16 of those seasons. He belongs in the discussion. My vote goes to Mays for his superior defense.

I can't consider some who was great for 4 yrs, good for another 2 to be in the discussion for greatest ever (looking at you Koufax).

I feel similarly Lance Armstrong. They're both scumbags and I can't root for them, but you can't deny that they were once-in-a-generation athletes with or without the cheating, for the reason you mentioned.

Although I'm more impressed by Ruth because his contemporaries probably took better care of themselves than he did (I know everyone smoke and drank, but Ruth took it to another level and gorged himself on food to boot). I'll never understand how he was so much better than everyone else around him.

1. Mays
2. Aaron
3. Berra
4. Seaver
5. Koufax
6. Schmidt
7. F. Robinson
8. Maddux
9. B. Robinson
10. Ryan

1. Mays
2. Rose
3. Berra
4. Aaron
5. Seaver

5 tool..........
 

Willie could do it all, albiet he hung on a year or two too long (Mets).

1. Mays
2. Bonds
3. Aaron
4. Rose
5. Griffey, JR

I'm a little biased with the Griffey selection as he was my favorite as a kid, but he sure had a beautiful swing. It seemed almost effortless. He wasn't bad in the field either.

Ruth, of course, was great, almost certainly the greatest of all time. But he also played in an era of few minorities and no black players at all. "Everyone else around him" excludes a significant segment of the population.

Ruth also played in the pre-expansion era so he faced the best pitchers in baseball regularly. Considering how few teams there were he missed facing a handful of great black pitchers, no doubt, but he faced great pitchers all the time. Now the best pitchers are spread out over 32 teams and only pitch every fifth day. How many times a year does Mike Trout have to face a teams ace?

Best living player, my vote:

Ken Griffey Jr. By far the biggest casualty of the steroids era and ranked the number one player of all time during much of his career ahead of Aaron and Mays.

True! Very good point. And very depressing.

Mays is the best.

It's amazing how certain myths regarding Babe Ruth are so often repeated. Well here is the real story......

At the end of the 1925 season, Babe Ruth was considering calling it quits. He played only 98 games in 1925. He had a mediocre season, and at age 30, weighed 254 lbs.
So that December, he sought out professional help by going to a Physical Fitness Gym. He started a rigorous fitness regimen at Artie McGovern's NYC gym (Artie was his
personal trainer). In 6 weeks, Ruth lost 44 lbs and his physical condition had improved to the point where he said "he felt like 20 again".

Ruth's performance 1926 proved that his physical conditioning really paid off. He played in 152 games....BA = .372....HR = 47....RBI = 145....SLA = .737

He continued this physical conditioning regimen for the remainder of his BB career. This transformation also brought about a renewed optimism; and, from 1927 - 1933
his career performance was equal to (or better than) his playing days when he was in his 20's.

Prior to Ruth's physical fitness program, his numbers were......

1918 - 1925

BA = .350

HR = 300

RBI = 905

After starting his physical fitness program, his numbers are......

1926 - 1933

BA = .341

HR = 377

RBI = 1161


TED Z
.

MAYS. WILLIE MAYS.

...obviously.

Surprised by the lack of support for Frank Robinson. Does he lose out by not playing his career for a single team and not in a big market?

I love Frank Robinson. He would never get a top two vote from me since he seems to lag behind Aaron and Mays in pretty much every category. I suspect his 586 HRs have been greatly devalued as a result of the steroid era.

Yep. I'd put both Mays and Aaron above him but he's underrated, I suppose because his career was split between two teams and not in the big media markets.

Crazy to even think about the late 1950s with Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Clemente, and Robinson all roaming outfields more or less in their primes, guys like Musial, Snider, and Ted Williams still around, and the likes of Maris, Yaz, Brock, and Billy Williams just arriving or on the way.

As a kid in the late 70s, I looked at Parker, Foster, Rice, Winfield, Lynn, Jackson, etc. the same way. If you were trying to make a MLB all-star team with the three best outfielders, it was impossible to choose.

Don Mossi or Steve Balboni

Jeter would win if we were seeking the most overrated player of all time, with his 112 OPS+ indicating he was twelve percent better than an average player offensively. In checking several years ago, he was just one point ahead of Alan Trammel in this regard. In addition, as Keith Olberman pointed out in the face of much opposition, he was actually below average defensively for about the last ten years!

Greatest living player (PED cheaters excepted, of course), based on runs created vs league average during the era in which he played is Willie Mays, and that's just offensively. Defensively, IMHO, the best center fielder ever!

It's not just opinion anymore,

Larry

I like the info above...ironically, before seeing the list, I had the following as my top 6:

<1> Bonds
<2> Mays
<3> Aaron
<4> R. Henderson
<5> A. Rod
<6> Miguel Cabrera

Not sure why Miggy hasn't come up at all, but I think his early stats speak for themselves. And with respect to Rickey "Man of Steal" Henderson, how does someone with that much speed and base-stealing ability end up having the RECORD for most walks of all time (pre-Bonds)? That, to me, is one of the most mind-boggling stats ever. He's certainly the greatest lead-off hitter of all time (at least in my book).

To each his own. I'd rather have a great player for 6 years than one whose stats are over rated by steroids or playing in Fulton County Stadium.