It's a LABEL.

And it doesn't look like the others in my set!! Tell me this - if your keyboard for your custom made HP computer craps out, would you want to get any old keyboard or would you want to get an HP keyboard to match the one that crapped out? Sure, any old keyboard will work, but what if you want it to match the monitor and the computer? You might not care, but don't fault those of us that do!

Why are the paper labels on slabbed cards called flips?

Because if you get a low grade then you may flip out?

So that if the buyer gets a grade that he knows he can sell for more than he paid for it, he flips it.:D

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Blame SGC"
They point their crooked little fingers at Skeffington
Spend all their time demandin' that somethin' be done
Victim of this, victim of that
The new flip's not green, it's gone over flat

Get over it
It's just a flip
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Your avatar sucks. :D:D:D

Yes, this whole "flip" flap seems a bit overblown, but I fully realize that some consider it a call to arms. It just seems a tad ridiculous that a gaggle of grown men can get so worked up over a slip of paper. But then again spending big bucks on old card board probably would not be considered saner by the general public. I certainly consider myself among the insane and my "moat" post this morning implied that we are all in the asylum. The "moat" was to protect the public from us and not vice versa.

With that I will pick up my fife and ask Peter to pound the drum as we all sing together ............

At least it has no rouge. :D:D

"Weird Frank" Yankovic, M.D.


http://photos.imagevent.com/rgold/ebay/image_14.jpg

i was thinking the same thing!!!!!

They basically just copied the PSA label layout and design. They changed red to green and have a PSA grade index on it, in addition to their original grading tier.

Not sure if this was mentioned but...that's just a cop out. If you are redoing stuff wouldn't you invest the money in the bar code technology also and bring your company into the 19th century?

Kevin

Labels
 

As the owner of the company that was in charge of the new web site design, and an overhaul of the set registry, and the changes to the flip and about 20 other things, the time that took the longest and was the most difficult thing to do, were the changes to the flip. Now many of you who think it should have been easy and we should have be able to add a green border easily, really have no idea how difficult this truly was. They also should not claim to think they could have done it themselves just because they were able to add it in photoshop with no business requirements nor have any of the specifications to work from. Some of our tolerances were 1/32" of an inch, we also went through two different printers, we went through three different labels test runs (all of which were paid for), we designed four or five different labels and it took us about 8 months to complete. None of this mind you, is me complaining about this, it is me merely telling you that this was not an easy thing to do to say the least.

I realize I am opening myself to some ridicule here because no matter what I say, some of you will find fault. What SGC did was modernize their entire computer systems at a great cost to bring better customer service to everyone here. Now granted, we could have gotten more feedback from some of you but in all honesty, it would not have mattered because SGC wanted to get a 4th line on the flip in order to differentiate itself from its competitors and they should be applauded for it, because some of you think that you could have done it better or you were not consulted or whatever gripe you have with the new flip. SGC spent a lot of money to modernize the computer system and that is what should be the focus here, not a lack of a green border.

I will add that we are looking to see if we can add the border to the flip but that will take a while to do because as I had indicated, it is a very complex change.

Bob Freedman
bob@simpleauctionsite.com

Bob, Get Ready cause here it comes.

No mother likes to hear her baby is ugly. I am surprised it took her this long to defend herself and her offspring.

Lol

I'm not sure what two(!) printers you tried, but .8mm simplex registration tolerances should be a non-issue for a professional office printer. And who in their right mind besides a construction worker measures in 32nds of an inch??? :eek:

Still the "modernizing the computer" excuse! You produced a lame, ugly flip that most of the company's best customers hate. Good work. And as the "photoshopped" alternatives show, you could have easily gotten the same number of lines and info on it. Has nothing to do with them "modernizing their computer system."

All that said Bob, the flip is still ugly. Please refer to the link provided for the overwhelming feedback from SGC customers. Spoiler alert, it's not pretty from your company's or SGC's perspective.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=188363

Dan Hicks

Speaking as a collector, at the end of the day the pontification and the "you all really don't what you're talking about" and "you have no idea how hard it is" statements do not change the fact that the flip is horrendous. Spin it any way you want.

Eight months of work and the most difficult thing was designing the flip. Sounds like SGC had done to them what they do to us when we submit our cards. LOL

Let me understand this whole flip-flap because since I'm in the minority and not yet a physiatrist, I'm a little slow. The majority of the board has it's panties in a twist because of a tiny piece of paper in a flip that has no value. It protects the card that you bought to look at. You bought the card right? The card? Ok. So I was unaware that the majority of board members suffers from the same serious case of OCD that Sheldon has. I apologize for not being more sympathic. I think we have too many lawyers on the board and not enough Health professionals.

BTW. Above post is all in fun and meant to try to get a rise out of the majority. But I still say, Just let it go.

Sorry Bobby, I didn't realize the degree of the obsession. Actually I haven't been that obsessed about any thing since Farrah Fawcett's bathing suit poster came out.

Asi I have said from the beginning of this discussion, the flip. on first glance, appears as if belonged to a 2nd rate company,

And, as a person who has attended tons of shows overs the years, those flips do not stand out the way you expect them to,

Perhaps. and PSA learned this when they first attempted to move to 1/2 grrades but had a near rebellion on their hands which was led by Jim Crandall (Davallilo on these boards) they had to wait and regroup and finally got those approved by a majority of their users.

Sometimes, especially when the real importance (grading the card correctly, preventing the gaskets from having the card move around) of the grading comapny is overlooked, this could have been made into a great PR move by SGC. you know, disclosing some prospective flips and bringing them to this board's attention would not have taken away any corporate secrets nor would it have hurt in way.

In favt, SGC would have been roundly cheered for its transprarency. And in today's world, that is a great PR help to have.

Regards
Rich

we could have gotten more feedback from some of you but in all honesty,
it would not have mattered because SGC wanted to get a 4th line on the flip in order to differentiate itself from its competitors and they should be applauded for it, because some of you think that you could have done it better or you were not consulted or whatever gripe you have with the new flip. SGC spent a lot of money to modernize the computer system and that is what should be the focus here, not a lack of a green border.

Bob Freedman
bob@simpleauctionsite.com[/QUOTE]

Are you sure customer feedback would not have mattered? In all honesty not the best thing to say to loyal customers.Ouch!

Attachment 145781

By the way Bob when a user enters T206 as a set & a players last name in the population report it does not pull up the appropriate information.
Thanks
Paul

LOL, thinking the same thing.

I like Scott, I like SGC and the team as for the design not crazy about it but whatever. With that said SGC in my view needs a full overhaul from holders, marketing, operations and up.

They could be a real player in the marketplace very much a Pepsi to PSA's Coke....but they have been and will remain a small player under their current set up and management.

They do a solid job and in terms of pre-war are very solid, but one can't help but look at a company like SGC and say they could be doing so much more if in fact not leading the pack in some areas.

John

Since you don't seem to care, and that's fine, maybe you should take your own advice and let it go? Just a thought.

Dan Hicks

Damned with faint praise.

Speakiong as a long-time hobbyist, the problem with your thinking John (wonka) is that SGC has done a great job getting the hobby to believe they are the go-to comnpany for pre-1948 cards.

That is great in terms of hobby imprtance but because the preponderance of cards are issued post-1945 and in fact most are much later, that gave Beckett a big edge when it came to more modern cards as when Beckett got into grading, the corporate knowledge of those cards was off the charts.

Meanwhile PSA by being their first, had built up an advantage (and the registry clinched it) with having the most overall cards graded by a wide margin,

If I'm SGC, my goal if I wanted to increase market share, which is not my decision at all, is to come up with long-term specials to re-holder cards already in PSA or BGS/BVG holders. Whatever price point works for a profit is their next move to go with improving the flip.

WHile I have a lot of respect for everyone who owns/runs a company, this decision about the flips could have (and probably should have) been made with collector input. Shoot, the pub you could have gotten from this would have been off the charts and all positive. And evem if the holder was not everyone's preferred choice, then at least we could say we were in the loop.

And wouldn't that have been a great win/win for SGC

Rich

yep!!!

Nah. Having too much fun with the old guy telling me to get off his lawn.

I'm sad to say, both generally and in this instance, that I agree with Wonka. It's far more than the flips here. It's the failure to gauge or perhaps even seek customer input followed by a poor response that are of greater concern to me. I am really having a hard time believing this group can be a significant player in the industry for very long if it is being managed at this level. I won't even spend much time on the additional problems with this latest product "roll out", such as the pop report still lacking (no search by year function), cards once in the pop report now missing, message boards either down or disbanded, no mention of whether/how gasket issues and holder security are being examined, etc. It's just a growing lack of a professional presence that concerns me. I'm no big corporate fan--give me the little guy every time-- but there has to be a far better showing of how to run a business than I've seen here for me to have confidence going forward.

This thread is about a "Label" and not the card in the slab ? I guess I don't understand this at all. I never even look at the label, except to see the grade. This is amazing to me. OCD lives on !!!

So your motivation is simply to annoy...now I get it. Knowing that I'll just ignore.

Dan Hicks

Not simply to annoy. Simply to point out that you guys are 5000 views into the second thread about a piece of paper that adorns your cards. I thought the card was the objective here? It's a group of guys bitching about a piece of paper. When we were younger we'd chuckle at the old guy on the porch telling us to get off his lawn. We swore we'd never be him. Guess what guys, you're him now.

I think you've said your peace. You don't care, we get it.

Dan Hicks

We are not paying for that old man's lawn, we are however paying for that little piece of paper, if your objective is to troll I suggest you start a blog. its relatively easy

Sebastian

I don't really care what opinion you give, but with respect to the board rules-

Whomever is getting into debates or giving any opinion in this thread, and doesn't have their full name in their posts has 2 choices.

1. Edit out your comments
2. Put your full name in your post(s) (or it will be put there)


Nothing personal at all....but if folks are going to have arguments, debates or give an opinion, then their full name needs to be in their post(s). thanks

ps....if we can tell your full name by your user id, or something in your public profile that leads to your full name, then that is good enough.

I wondered when the Troll word would enter. Because I disagree I became a troll? Priceless. I'm pretty well known in the community and troll isn't the word that describes my standing.
Now to the subject. I thought you were paying for the card?

Sorry Leon, first time I've ever had to. :)
Joe Brennan

It's only fair sir. Not everyone knows your handle. And likewise for everyone else too. I strongly feel it is what helps keep this board as real as possible. But that is a whole different debate. :) Thanks Joe...You have been on these boards a long time!!

I trust you have a good standing and Im not knocking you at all. but on this particular thread it seems your intent is just to inflame.

Edited to add: I just saw the bottom of your post, so I indeed fell for it haha. I'll drop it at that, I dont really have a dog in the fight and will buy the cards anyways.

Sebastian Buentello

Bob F.
I appreciate your hard work & diligence in fixing SGC's website & card flip.
Though I'm not a big fan of the new design, I'm sure I'll like it or not even notice it after time.
Its still about the card that's holder-ed, moreso then the look of the card description.

My biggest beef is the website. The design is modern & fine & easy enough to navigate
but its non-operational. I have a submission order that's ready to pop, & since Wednesday I cannot view it online.
I have cards to insert into the registry, but they won't go in.

I don't feel like calling SGC, since they are busy enough w/ the change, but couldn't all the bugs be worked out prior to releasing it to the public?

No, Joe, you're paying to have a card you already own entombed in what you believe to be a secure, tamper-evident, non-destructive and aesthetically-pleasing display. How one values and weighs each of those attributes is of course subjective, but you are indeed paying for it.

This isn't about buying the card, not the holder. If you're happy with the card but hate the holder crack it open and keep it raw or slab it with someone else. But if you're a submitter, why shouldn't your opinion matter?

Sebastian, Honestly, not to inflame. Just to point out how inane this has become.

I'm going to say my peace. It is not directed to anyone. But it is what it is.

There are collectors that will buy cards from known felons that run auction houses because they have to have it. There are collectors that will buy altered cards just cause the grade is there. They will buy from auctions that are shilled cause of the obsession. They will buy these SGC cards in these flips and safely stash them in their collections. They may bitch, but they will buy. So all this ado is a mute point because nothing will stop them if they want it bad enough. And trust me, they do. And some of those collectors are here.
And they wanted SGC to consult with them first? Seriously?

Joe Brennan

Um yes, seriously.

I could care less whether or not they consulted us if the design didn't suck so hard, but unfortunately it does. Again, I'm not sure why you continue to stir this pot when you clearly don't care. Why not just ignore the thread if you find the discussion "inane"?

Dan Hicks

1,000 posts later they couldn't decide on a date and time for dinner. You think they'd agree on a flip?

LOL. Joe hope you are well.

:)

First of all, there does seem to be a consensus on a flip here, but there's even more of a consensus on the fact that the current one is no good.

Second, if you want inane, compare your reference to a thread some years ago, among collectors of all types including Barry Sloate, who as I recall has little to no direct interest in graded cards, about the logistics of when and where to meet for dinner in NYC to this one about the manner in which a grading company conducts its business. That is inane.

We get your point, as inartfully and repetitively as it has been made. Feel free to keep poking-- I don't give twodeuces.

SGC has changed its flip
doo da doo daa
No more green around the lip
oh da doo da day
Gonna be all white
What an awful day
No more money to Parsippany
I'm off to PSA.

Just got one of my cards back today from SGC off the three day sub. It has the old style Flip which I like very much.

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/...psd751fca8.jpg

You have collectors of all types in this very thread with opinions on the design.
And I thought I was very artful?

Great card from a great set. First set I ever collected.

No. They changed to 1/2 grades and everyone quit them too. I guess it's off to Pro. But that doesn't rhyme with day. :)

Don't tell me the flips don't matter. If that was true, then GAI, CSA, and PRO would all be selling for big money! After all, it is not about the flip, it is about the card! You can look at the card and see how good it is!

Everyone knows that is not true however. GAI cards sell for crap. Even SGC cards don't sell nowhere near the PSA equivalent for certain cards.

And yes....if a label looks like one of those fly by night graders that I used to laugh about when I first entered this hobby years ago, then it is going to be perceived as being inferior. That is why some neighborhoods have homeowner's associations - to prevent the neighbor from painting his house polka dot and looking all crazy.

On point, sir!

Huh? We aren't talking grading companies. We aren't comparing PRO to SGC. We are talking about the paper label. The flip doesn't bring the money. The name of the TPG does. The label could be pink with polka dots as long as it said SGC. After a few months all will be forgiven.

Guys, SGC isn't PRO or GAI. It's also not even PSA when it comes to customer service and integrity. Unlike PSA they actually listen to their customer base and don't get defensive upon criticism. I'm sure they're reading this thread and your voices are heard.

I love this set too. This card was pretty tough to get in a good grade and unmarked. Picked this one up raw on ebay and submitted immediately to SGC.

Still had mine from 1966. It is wavy. I guess from change in temperature from being stored in a shoe box for 30 years. It was unmarked and graded a 2. Looks good from a distance. :) I have the full set with all the key cards graded. Surprisingly most came back 7's or 8's. The rest of the set is pretty nice. Fond memories of putting it together with my father.

As an FYI
 

I reached out to Dave Forman and offered in fhe future to use my column as another way for SGC to publicize themselves, alert collectors to changes, etc.

Much of this could have avoided with proactive PR from SGC as well as using the community to discuss the new flip (which should not be a super sensitive company issue)

if SGC's management is as good as everyone here says the customer service and the grading area are, then these minor adjustments can help SGC grow.

And, since SGC is the unofficial grading company of the Net 54 boards, don't you all want them to succeed

Rich

I like the new flips better. Edited to say now I'm not so sure now. At least the cert number is easier to read for my old eyes.

Then Jeff you never heard some of the conversations I had with Mr. Skeffington when I was at Beckett.

Rich

New SGC Label
 

I just sent in a card last week to SGC for a customer. Got the card back today with new label. Although, I do prefer, Joe G's design, it does look much better in person.

Hank

The flip seems to have centering issues ...

I bet your customer is more unhappy with that 'A' than with the flip design. :p

I warned him that it looked trimmed to me, however, he still wanted to send it in...SGC got it right. It's a shame though because he got it as a gift when he was a kid and was drafted by the Reds some time ago and has more time to collect now that he is done playing...the hardest part was confirming the news. Overall, SGC is still great to work with and respect their work. I can deal with the flip if they continue to stay with the current design. It will catch on in due time.

Being an "A" card isn't so bad....some people actually go out of their way to collect "A" cards! :p

SGC service and grading is certainly the best. SGC marketing is certainly not.

The flip actually looks good (not as good as Joe G's) as long as the top line is short i.e. a Topps issue. Start adding principal de gales to that top line and it is too crunched with the SGC. Joe G has the SGC reduced in size to help with this also.

Beckett, as in the competitor:D?

Are you saying the set registry and population report changes are 100% complete?

Yes, I used to work there back in the day -- not in grading but in the pricing area :)

Has the holder changed?