Exactly!!! It takes zero skill when you're 400 lbs and 7'1. I think it took a little more skill to pitch than dunk though haha

I don't disagree with you t206hof about Matty and Johnson being the greatest pitchers of all time. They completely dominated the era that they played in.

Where I disagree with you is the way you are slamming the modern players. You talk about how the modern players are "pampered." It is not fair to penalize them just because the game has evolved. Fact is, players as well as people in general are bigger, stronger, faster, and healthier today than they were 100 years ago.

I don't think it is fair to compare Matty to Koufax to Maddux or Cobb to Mays to Miguel Cabrerra. Compare any of them to the players they competed against. They dominated. Can't compare them against players from a different era. It wouldn't be fair to any of them. Different time, different place.

Yes Mariano belongs in the HOF on the first ballot with 100% of the votes. He dominated the era he played in same way Matty did. Not Mariano's fault that the game has evolved. He was the greatest closer of his era.

I am always shocked by the sure fire hall of famers (Maddux) who don't go in unanimously.

Statistics are a useful tool when used to compare players in any sport when comparing players of the same era. Once taken out of that context, statistical comparison of players is not useful and, in fact, can create a very distorted picture of a players value relative to the era in which he competed. Apples to apples.

Deadball stars like Walter Johnson and Matty were undoubtedly great. But they also weren't pitching against any minorities. How superior would the great pitchers of today look if you removed every African-American batter (and nearly every Hispanic from the game as well) from the major leagues?

I love the Deadball era and the men who played during that time. But it doesn't make any sense at all IMO that players from 1910 would be better today when the talent pool is so much larger today,

I don't see what modern day race has to do with dead ball players.

Do you really think that there were no minorities who could have dominated the game if they were given an opportunity to play in the major leagues of the time? A huge portion of the talent pool was barred from playing in the major leagues during the Deadball era.

Expand ethnicities and you ultimately raise the level of play. Do you think the competition and skill would increase or stay the same if you played ball with the allowance of half the world or all of it?

I have no doubt that competition is greatest when the best players compete. Obviously there are negro leaguers and other minorities would could (should) have played in the majors.

It's hard to say how they would have faired. My comment was directed at the member who tried to guess how Johnson would have performed against modern day players of certain racial and ethnic classes.

There wasn't also nearly the advanced scouting among pre-war players.

I agree. We really can't compare these guys. It's apples and oranges.

The talent pool is larger but there are many more in the big leagues that also dilutes the talent. Cobb faced the same 21 starting pitchers for the entire year, now a player will face at least double that number. Every time you played the Giants in 1913 you faced Matty, Marquard and Tesreau. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger, etc. but Id like to think a guy like Cobb could play today. We have no idea how'd he'd hit a live ball his whole career. Would Cobb be one of the best in the league today? I think so.

The media would love a guy like Cobb.

Another interesting point to this conversation is looking at the evolution of equipment as well. WaJo and Matty were pitching to guys swinging broomsticks, not the Fred Flintstone barreled bats of today.

And gloves. It is tough to field with an early 20th century glove.

Cobb would tear up these new pitchers.