If it's a fraudulent opinion it's still fraud. If I know an item is not genuine, it makes no difference if I say "it's genuine" or "in my opinion, it's genuine."

Sure, all you have to do is prove it's a fraudulent opinion, no problem.

And how is that any harder or easier than proving a statement of fact was made with knowledge it was false?

You're the one saying how easy it is, not me. And I am telling you that I have been told by the people actually doing the work that it's not easy. If it was then CC would be in hot water....(and maybe they are, I don't know)

I never said it was easy. I am saying that the language they use is not the reason it's hard, but rather that it's hard to prove a fraudulent state of mind.

As a serious question, rather than an argument type question.

With something like an autograph opinion is there no leeway for incompetence?
I could express an opinion about an autograph, and put it in writing. But aside from a handful of items I own, all cheap I'd be likely to be wrong. (Unless I'm sure it's bad because the item is too new to have been signed by that person)
So If I claimed something was good and it became an issue a lack of knowledge or skill wouldn't help?

I realize there's also a difference between someone Doing that as a business and someone selling random stuff.
Just like claiming incompetence wouldn't help if I fixed something wrong and someone got hurt.

Steve B

Plus, the odds of getting a jury that knows anything at all about autographs is not good...Mr Morales taking the stand with his "FBI background in forensics" would probably make the average jury member star struck.

In a private suit if I were defending you, I would claim that because you were not holding yourself out as an expert, the plaintiff was not entitled to reasonably rely on your "opinion" or that it was not material.

I don't know about that. I think if you read one of CC's LOA's you would find a lot of verbiage making them not liable for their opinion. I haven't read one but I would bet they are pretty good at denying culpability.....

I think it's quite obvious that as long as they've been running their bogus operation and the FBI hasn't already shut them down that it's been deemed not an easy task.

That's another issue. I haven't seen one either so can't comment.

Given the amount of fraud that goes on in this world, it's obviously not an easy task to build a case that will hold up on a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. Some get busted but most do not. And prosecutorial resources are scarce relative to the number of fraudsters.

Peter- here is something I don't understand, and maybe you can explain it: if I rendered an opinion on an autograph, and I got it wrong (I called a bogus autograph genuine) I agree that I could have simply given an erroneous opinion.

But if you gave me a thousand bogus autographs to authenticate, and I said all thousand were genuine, isn't there a tipping point where nobody would believe me? Wouldn't it at some point become obvious that I was committing fraud?

CC and Morales are the most obvious fraudsters in the hobby at this time...I would think if what they were doing was easy to prosecute it would have been done by now. They're gaming the system.

Barry, if nobody believed you then is it fraud? At that point your opinion wouldn't be material.

But where I think you meant to go is where I was going with this originally: that at some point there can be enough circumstantial evidence that a seller knows his opinion is false; and if a seller knows his opinion is false that's just as fraudulent as affirmatively stating the item is genuine.

I don't know what the threshhold is for fraud, but I understand your response. It seems like CC will go on indefinitely.

Or living on borrowed time.

Hey John Rogers I have a great deal for you. I’ll sell you all of Peter Nash’s memorabilia that I have as collateral. You can call your buddy up Peter Nash and I’m sure he will give you the provenance of the memorabilia, after all you did loan him unsecured loans of $166,200, so it makes no sense that he wouldn’t give you provenance on this material. It would be a great deal for you and just think you would be helping your buddy out by paying down some of his debt. Remember my Judgment against Nash gets paid off first before you can get any of your money back from Nash.

Taking off a few items I have sold theirs approximately 60 items of Nash’s collateral I have for sale. Peter Nash puts a value of approximately $125,000 on this stuff. This deal would not include the Ed Delahanty bat that would have to be a separate deal. Make me an offer!

15 posts and every last one of them relates to Peter Nash.

Seems like he owns you.

Scott no offense I wonder how laid back you would be with having been physically threatened, ripped off for huge amounts of money, given questionable or fake items for collateral on debts owed. All from a guy who pretends to be a hobby sleuth and savior, while yanking his pud in cyberspace and pointing out the whims and legal troubles of others while taking the 5th on his own.

I don’t think Nash “owns” Robert, more like he “owes” Robert money…if anything.

I think poking Rogers is fair if he’s so keen on Nash, and so quick to consign “memorabilia” to Coaches Corner…LOL.

Just my two cents there needs to be 1000 more posts on Nash the hobby needs to know what this guy is.

Robert I'll take the Delehanty bat can I get an LOA from John Rogers? :D

Poking Rogers is definitely fair - the Rogers issues are news to many of us.

I see your point about Robert, but just so he understands - he is known to most (if not all) of us simply as "the guy who hates Peter Nash". That is a positive thing, but most of us who dislike Nash (myself included) aren't known here on a vintage baseball card discussion forum, simply for our hatred of someone. The only person who came close was Travis and his hatred of PSA and JSA, but at least we also knew him as the boxing autograph guy.

But it is Robert's right to inadvertently (or purposely?) label himself here based completely on his relationship to Nash. It is only tiresome to me because I have read most of his 15 posts, and I'm not seeing anything new. But again, that's his right.

Having said all that - sorry, Robert, if I vented unfairly. Please continue, and I sincerely hope you get justice. And if there is something related to the forum that you can contribute, I would love to read it - you sound like a guy who could turn some of that passion toward positive stuff that would be interesting.

John Roger is the person that bought $550,000 of Peter Nash's stuff in an "AS IS" one lot auction. I’ve been told Roger's got all his money back by selling a few items. I see that a few of those items that Rogers sold ended up in "The National Pastime Museum" for example the Hugh Duffy bat, the Mike King Kelly bat and the Ed Delahanty pocket watch. Many of the item Roger's bought in this "AS IS" auction came from the same place my collateral came from. I know that many of the items that Nash had comes from the John Dooley Collection in MA. John Dooley was friends with Nuf Ced McGreevy and ended up with McGreevy's personal collection. But Peter Nash pleaded the fifth when asked where he got this stuff from. If the stuff was real, why did Nash plead the fifth? I've talked to the Dooley's family attorney and they told me that they considered going after Nash. You have to ask yourself, why did Nash plead the fifth? if he knew the stuff was real. I remember when Peter Nash told me about the treasure trove of stuff he found in Katherine Dooley's basement telling me it was worth millions of dollars. Peter Nash I know you will read this so why don't you give me the provenance of all the collateral I have so it can be sold for top dollar and be applied to your Judgment.

Travis posted 10 posts per day all pertaining to his hatred of PSA/JSA, and would NEVER satisfactorily answer a direct question...I don't think we need to run off a guy who has 15 total posts.

Do you really think that by suggesting he post about something other than Peter Nash, I'm trying to run him off?

And if that was my intent, do you think there's any chance at all that it would succeed?

(Both rhetorical questions, wrist-slap noted)

Last year I spoke with Jerrold Casway, he wrote a book on Ed Delahanty and I emailed pictures of the bat to him. He told me the bat is 100% real and has no doubt about it. Mr. Casway said he was friendly with Peter Nash and would put a call into him and find out where he got it from. He spoke to Peter Nash and Peter Nash told him I refuse to answer any questions about Robert Fraser or the Ed Delahanty bat. Jerry Casway probably has the largest collection of Ed Delahanty memorabilia and he wrote the book, "Ed Delahanty in the Emerald Age of Baseball".

This kind of stuff is truly the sad and disgusting part about Peter Nash. Very few people know as much about baseball as Nash the guy really is a wealth of knowledge. He also obtained thru research many real and amazing items that are part of our national pastime and our shared history.

However it’s clear Peter used his knowledge to create and sell/market questionable to downright fake items this is what disgusts me and should have everyone upset. Because of this we have an amazing item a Delahanty trophy bat which should be cherished and kept for the ages…that now is questionable due to the proximity of Nash and his known shenanigans. Peter instead of going down as an ex rap star and hobby icon will forever be the “Typhoid Mary” of baseball memorabilia.

One thing to fake some Ruth signatures and take some folks for cash, but to destroy and taint real hobby grails thru the games Peter has played for greed…is a tragedy and a betrayal of the game and the hobby.

To rub salt in the wound he’s made no attempt to fix, clear up or take responsibility for the mess. Instead he hides in cyberspace dragging anyone and everyone thru the mud guilty of anything that he himself has done or most likely done it’s truly shameful.

John

No, but I did think your first post claiming that Peter Nash "Owns" him was out of line. Not trying to slap your wrist or do any moderating at all, I find all of this fascinating and I don't want Robert to feel like he can't post about what has happened to him.

Sadly, apparently not.

That question from the Army-McCarthy hearings -- have you no sense of deceny, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency? -- is a moment any lawyer would live for. I am very fortunate to have worked with (well, for would be more accurate) people who worked with Joseph Welch.

Edited - TOTAL POST RE-WRITE :)

Okay, I get it. Just to be clear - I have read ALL of Robert's posts about Peter Nash. They indicated that Robert knows a lot about vintage baseball and has a lot of passion. I completely get the Nash thing - he screwed Robert, Robert hasn't gotten justice and some people are defending Nash as being some sort of hobby watchdog who writes great stories, which is of course bullshit. Robert's comments about the Delehanty bat made it clear that he knows stuff the rest of us don't know, and that we'd probably like to hear more about.

It would be more interesting to me personally, to hear the non-Nash stuff, but I understand that the train-wreckage is still on the track.

It would be great if all of our thousands of members with less than 15 posts would contribute more, but I just felt like your post was unnecessarily hostile, and I'd rather not chase off someone who has a lot to tell us about a situation that I'd like to learn more about.

"out of line", "unnecessarily hostile" - why Dan, those are the nicest things you've said to me in years. I'm moving away from the train-wreck before I get my wrists "not slapped" for a third time.

Eh, okay. But don't try to pass off your first post as really wanting to crack Robert's knowledge of the hobby. You weren't fooling anyone. :rolleyes:

On the Delehanty bat: If it is good, why not get the opinions of several of the authenticators out there and sell it with all of their certs? Seems simple enough...

So that makes you the man who met the man who met Joseph Welch? Sort of like Al Bundy, the man who met the man who met Andy Griffith...

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...h%20meeter.jpg

Yeah I was only 4 when he died so no oppotunity to work with him directly.

The problem is once they hear that it came from Peter Nash they want nothing to do with it. Let me give you an example, last year I consigned some items to Lelands Auctions. When they found out the stuff came from Peter Nash, Josh Evans called me cursing me out and threatening to report me to the FBI. I told him the FBI has already questioned me about this stuff and that I told the FBI that many of the items I have originally came from the Dooley family in Mass. Peter Nash acquired many items from Elizabeth Dooley and after she died Nash befriend old lady Katherine Dooley and acquired a huge amount of items from Katherine Dooley. Josh Evans went off on me telling me I’m a liar and that Nash never knew the Dooley family. When I told him I meet Katherine Dooley back in 2007 with Nash at her house he told me I was full of shit. But I was there when Nash and his crew was shooting the film “The Birth of Red Sox Nation”. I watched the old lady give Nash some stuff that came from McGreevy’s bar. I was so pissed off I called the Dooley’s attorney to help me get provenance on some of the collateral items I have. The law firm was very helpful and sent me some documents. The funny thing is Josh Evans lied to me saying he knew nothing about the Dooley family. The truth is this same law firm consigned Hugh Duffy’s gold pocket watch to Lelands Auctions which came from Katherine Dooley's Estate. I saw this same Hugh Duffy gold pocket watch in Katherine "Kitty" Dooley's living room in a glass case back in August of 2007. John Dooley, Kitty's father was best friends with Hugh Duffy and ended up with most of Hugh Duffy's personal items. Josh Evans knew full well that Hugh Duffy's pocket watch was from Katherine Dooley's estate. I have a copies of Lelands Auction's consignment papers and Lelands was clearly informed that the pocket watch came from Katherine Dooley's estate.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!! You got off easy!

LOL, I'm with Jeff welcome to the club you must have caught him on a good day. :)

The quote feature rocks.

...and either are you, Dan, so roll those virtual eyes all you want.

You da boss, so knock yourself out.

I agree.

BTW. .... .- -.. / -. --- / .. -.. . .- / -.-- --- ..- / --. ..- -.-- ... / .-- . .-. . / -.-. .-.. --- ... .

I'm surprised as well.

-.-- --- ..- / --. ..- -.-- ... / -... . - - . .-. / -.-. ..- - / .. - / --- ..- - / --- .-. / .-- . / .-- .. .-.. .-.. / .- .-.. .-.. / --. . - / -... .- -. -. . -.. .-.-.-

Well, that ends that fun, too.

Show some self respect and have an avatar.

Searching for a portrait of HughJass right now.

Hugh!

The key element of fraud is proving that the person knew that the material representation he made was false. The big problem is that someone can designate themselves as an "expert" and rubberstamp everything as authentic and as long as that stuff sells, its a win-win situation for both the expert and the seller of the bogus items and why even try to do a competent job by rejecting items? That would be leaving good money on the table. All the expert has to do is be vigilant in believing and communicating what he is authenticating is real.

For something like that to be shut down it would take either an FBI sting like what happened in Operation Bullpen or have a network TV news magazine like 20/20, Dateline or 60 Minutes give them knowingly bad items expose the gross incompetence or fraud and essentially force them out of business.

I recall around 2004, PSA had a World Series of Grading contest at the National. An independent group should do the same with the grading companies of cards, autographs and memorabilia. If done properly it could bring a lot of them problems to light.

I was wondering this too, but if I remember correctly, that was Mastro Auction's last stand.
JimB

This is not a repeat I've added to my original post and I'm hoping Josh Evans the owner of Lelands Auctions reads this.

The problem is once they hear that it came from Peter Nash they want nothing to do with it. Let me give you an example, last year I consigned some items to Lelands Auctions. When they found out the stuff came from Peter Nash, Josh Evans called me cursing me out and threatening to report me to the FBI. I told him the FBI has already questioned me about this stuff and that I told the FBI that many of the items I have originally came from the Dooley family in Massachusetts. Peter Nash acquired many items from Elizabeth Dooley and after she died Nash befriended old lady Katherine "Kitty" Dooley and acquired a huge amount of items from Kitty Dooley. Josh Evans went off on me telling me I’m a liar and that Nash never knew anybody from the Dooley family. When I told him I meet Katherine Dooley back in 2007 with Nash at her house in Milton, MA he told me I was full of shit. But I was there when Nash and his crew was shooting the film “The Birth of Red Sox Nation”. I watched the old lady give Nash some stuff that came from McGreevy’s bar. I was so pissed off I called the Dooley’s attorney to help me get provenance on some of the collateral items I have. The law firm Nutter McClennen & Fish LLP was very helpful and sent me some documents. The funny thing is Josh Evans lied to me saying he knew nothing about the Dooley family. The truth is this same law firm consigned Hugh Duffy’s gold pocket watch to Lelands Auctions which came from Katherine Dooley's Estate. I saw this same Hugh Duffy gold pocket watch in Kitty Dooley's living room in a glass case back in August of 2007. John Dooley, Kitty's father was best friends with Hugh Duffy and ended up with most of Hugh Duffy's personal items. Josh Evans knew full well that Hugh Duffy's pocket watch was from Katherine Dooley's estate. I have a copy of Lelands Auction's consignment paper and Lelands was clearly informed that Duffy's pocket watch came from Katherine Dooley's estate. The Red Sox once a year gives out an award called the Elizabeth "Lib" Dooley Award, saluting the team's most loyal fan. See articles below about Elizabeth & Katherine Dooley.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/22/sp...gewanted=print

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...ine_m_doo.html

Perhaps Josh was pissed because he was afraid Nash would write several hit pieces on his auctions if he attempted to sell his collateral, in essence sabotaging several of his auctions in the process.

It may not always be a case of whether it's real or not, but whether or not you might get stuck in a legal entanglement, similar to what Robert Edward Auctions has gone through with Nash.

I could also picture Nash getting some sort of an injunction against the sale of his "collateral".

I am relatively new to collecting. What did Nash do? I know there has to be a great story behind all of this.

Here’s something to get you started an article from sports Illustrated about Peter Nash.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...us/12/09/nash/

That article has been discussed a while ago. This statement has become a hobby truism:

For all its many upstanding, passionate collectors, the baseball-memorabilia subculture is also a notoriously seedy shadowland of Mametesque schemers and dreamers, thick with forgeries and thefts, conflicts of interest, dubious "authenticators," shill bidding, card doctoring and any number of other dubious practices. "The hobby is mostly filled with low-life hucksters, some of whom grow up to own important auction houses," says a longtime collector of early baseball material. "You can count the number of people who are smart and educated and honest on one hand."

Dan those last two sentences might be a slight exaggeration but unfortunately it's closer to the truth than it should be.

Sadly, I agree.:( So what we've got is a bunch of slime balls calling each other slimeballs, and us arguing about who is the biggest slimeball.

Thanks for the link. Sounds like a dirtbag.

Sounds like a bunch of dirtbags.

Who are the other members of the "bunch?"

The thieves, liars, cheats, etc, mentioned in the previous 140 posts.

A thread I did on Chris "I Never Saw An Autograph I Didn't Like" Morales.

http://live.autographmagazine.com/pr...pears-in-court

Wow. Interesting article. Also, great name. I have the X-files poster up in my office.

WTF...Jeff & the fine lawyers on Net54, do I have any "rights" to have this clown remove my photo from his site?

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=26290#more-26290

Did you ask him to remove it and he's refusing?

I'm checking here before I send a note.

:eek:Holy Cow, Chris, you got any more quaaludes? (jes teasin)

How do you believe he obtained your photo?

Likely found it on my gmail or wife's Facebook account. I have asked him to remove it....no word yet.

yeah, Hero of the Stupid has been busy "pushing carts at a big box store" according to his website...figures... right where the hard headed ape belongs.

Chris, he should have used this picture. It would have scared him.:eek:


Attachment 131321

Punxsutawney Nash....a few more months of BS.
 

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...07e016bc-1.jpg

LOL, you’re in the minor leagues Chris. Call me when you get your own headline.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/

Peter I know you’re reading this as this is where all of your "information" comes from before you twist it into the wonderful chestnuts of fantasy that is The Hauls of Blame.

I thought I would add something to your article that is rarely seen on your website some facts. I actually bought over $200k from REA last year and consigned $85k worth of items. Here’s another interesting note for the article I paid my bills in full….you should try it sometime people seem to really like it and don’t take you to court. Why would I be open like this…well I have no reason to plead the fifth etc. I also spent a bunch of money with Legendary as well Peter so I must be a huge John Rogers "fanboy" also, funny that didn't make the article?

Also I think your quote feature seems to be broken because not only did you quote me wrong on many things. You also seemed to have missed the parts quoting me on your fraud and legal troubles? Hmm wonder why that was? Also why do you never provide links to this site in your articles? Wouldn’t you want all of your readers to see what trolls the few of us are for themselves? Seems odd you would hide all that great info from your readers… :confused:

I’m sure it was just a simple oversight and will make the next article in which you will address all those concerns I have brought up about you. Keep up the good work Peter, and nice NYC dinner shot let me know if you would like a more up to date headshot I’ve changed glasses recently. :)

Cheers,

John

Wow, I never knew what some of you guys looked like.

What a handsome crowd. The guy on the top left looks so nice and happy. The top right guy reminds me of a Rodin sculpture.

Now I feel obligated to post a selfie or something. Maybe a glam press shot.

Matt we got to get you out more often are you sure wen to the right site? :)

After reading that article and the trash talking about Net54 I don't think I will visit HaulsofShame again.

There is a lot of negativity going on over there. I can't imagine the life he lives. Sad, sad, sad.....

Wait-- oh my bad, I was on pornhub. Whoops. Return to your normal programming.

Lol, John I would have taken you for a "handsome billionaire" type, chiseled 6'3" with the looks of Ryan Gosling......;)

Nice bald head though, you've joined my club :cool:

xvideos is better.........but I wouldn't know anything about that.

can i ask seriously, who is this person who wrote all of that stuff? i have heard the name, but know nothing about him. it was completely vile what he was saying.

is this a joke or something? the article reads like the national enquirer or something

i am pretty sure everyone on net54 has seen people like Leon Luckey and John McDaniel spend what must have been hours upon hours upon hours to alert board members of various fraud in the hobby and trying to protect people ... so where does all of this stuff even come from???

i love this hobby, but sometimes stuff honestly boggles my mind ... am i missing something here? is this like settling a score, or what ?!?!?!

DEREK HOGUE