Where in the world are you coming up with this stuff? Just because I think the numbers you throw around are rubbish, doesn't mean I have "animosity" toward printer scrap. That's about the weirdest logic I've seen from you yet.

Mathew....
 

Btw...

no other scrap in the lot...

I have devoted most of my collecting efforts to finding them.....If you ever want an opinion on a scrap, shoot me an email anytime....I will give you an honest opinion.....


LEON

has one of the best scraps, and what I call the ROSETTA T206......which even ties a Ghosted Young and the elusive brown OM....just a breathtaking card!! ties many backs together....even his card only has the multi strike on one side....btw...can you also feed my need for the Matty type I:)


Chris

I am still upset for you....I think that gem will come your way at the national;)

wish I was going.....Id buy scott a brew and everyone else


:)

PLEASE POST LEON

Scott...
 

:confused:I am a freak like the cards I collect:D

no one can predict what a card will go for at auction......but I have been pretty close on most;)...

hard to determine on one of a kinds......depends who shows up that day....

but I have felt you downplaying them for quite some time now....why:confused:

I know most are ignorant to them, but you have/had somewhat of a clue, what happened??:confused:

Johnny, the t206 printing process interests me. But if I didn't want to spend $500 on a piece of scrap ten years ago, why would I want to spend $5,000 for a similar card today? I owned examples of most scrap back then, studied them intently, and published a paper. Since then I haven't seen too much new in that area. I've learned more since then, but acquiring additional knowledge did not require that I spend loads of money - that's mostly due to all the new T206 collectors who have joined the hobby and shared their research with us.

It's a difference of opinion, but if I have $6,000 to spend on a collectible item, and can choose between either the T206 scrap in question, or some of the other things in my collection, it's really a no-brainer.

This thread was about a particular scrap and it's value. I stated my opinion - I have no earthly idea how that turned into you thinking I felt "animosity" toward scraps. I still think they are interesting - I just don't place the same value on them as you and some others. I have been offered pretty good money for a couple of 'error' T206 cards in my collection, and I turned down one offer because I thought it would be stupid for the collector to pay me that much.

I have to admit, I do have a fondness for that stamp :)

There is a synapse in your brain that isn't connecting correctly: it is taking my disagreement with you over the value of scraps and equating that to me hating scraps. It's really quite a weird logic leap, but I've explained it now in several posts and you aren't getting it.

By the way - no animosity toward you either. I think it's great that you have such a passion for these cards. We should team up as 'card guys' and go attack the game-used collectors. It would be healthier for us.

Perez....
 

;)is hitting it on the head....these will mimic the coin collecting parallel anomalies and stamp error values....just took a little time to catch on with collectors...

Scott,

Of course I respect your opinion.....and again sorry for getting so heated, but I think you do understand my logic....My firing synaps at this level do go nuts when I do hear any scrap getting a bad rap:)......

stop the scrap hating!:D

If I was joining you and Chris at the national, I 'd have you hunt me down a few of these beauties that are flying under the radar....

maybe you still can hunt for me Scott there??;)

I have to say, over the last few years, I also thought the numbers Johnny was throwing around (5K, 8K, 10K, etc) were ridiculous...BUT, we've seen first hand recently with the sales of these scraps/errors that he knew what he was talking about. the prices realized are insane...but they are legit.

Mike.....
 

Thanks my bro....you have been living through it:) bitter- sweet almost in a way I guess:confused:......we used to think it was just a handful after these.....but there are many more joining by the day....I hate throwing around any number, but predictions are directly correlated to supply and demand in simple economic terms(sorry i'm a business school graduate)....the demand will simply increase on these, while the supply will become even tighter as the population realizes their significance to the set, the rarirty, besides the just plain :cool: factor....haters keep hatn' i'll keep a lovn':)

Just for you Johnny. I love your passion my friend...I suppose this is the type 1....?

http://luckeycards.com/pt206mattyproofandregularx2.jpg

I don't have an opinion on the T206 scraps, but I am extremely surprised that other sets from the era don't see prices at least in the ballpark for their scrap.

For instance, I bought this E92 missing color on eBay within the past year for $85. If this were a T206, I assume it would be several thousand?

Should the price disparity be THAT big??

Johnny has Type I Cardboardism

...There's no cure. ;)

We have seen common low grade Drums and RH hitting 10k+ prices, BL350s going to 3k. Two multi strike scraps this year hitting $6500,$7600 a miscut front hitting $4700 and one at $9600. Test prints at 9k. What would Leon's cards go for now? Jeff's miscut Cobb?

Johnny was predicting these prices two years ago when I started. Now they are a reality and we haven't even seen the BIG errors come up yet :D

Never say never.

For the record I don't own any of these crazy types, I highly dislike these prices and if it meant my error cards market value dropped to 1/4 but so did the rest I would be a happier collector.

Love this...

I would be afraid to go anywhere near a scrap - someone might kill me to get it, or knowing I had bought one, murder me in my sleep. These things have gotten dangerous.

Exactly! If the phenomenon is limited to T206, then it is not scrap collecting -- it is weirdo-T206 collecting. Nothing wrong with that, but even I don't limit my pursuit of signed prewar to T206.

Promotion is a double-edged sword. I love sharing my signed T206 conquests here and on my website. But it certainly has raised interest and prices for these. Good when I go to sell, of course, but bad in the near term.

I like that e92 and would have scooped it up if I noticed it. You are right though, t206 prices for scrap compared to their common counterpart is astronomical compared to other sets. Even t205s get a premium but no where near where its counterpart in the t206 would get. I would think the natural move would be that people that do like scrap but can't afford t206 may navigate to another niche in the t206 world or they will have to go into other sets. So it may be that t206 is just leading the way for other sets.

This has turned into an interesting debate! I'm still a few steps over to Scott and Peter's side here...it seems ridiculous and irrational that freaks and scraps from other sets of the same era get pretty much no respect as compared to t206. It's a mania...people have gone manic over anything and everything T206...and that's fine...that's good for the hobby I suppose.

But there are tons of other unique/one/close to one of a kind cards...it's gotten to the point where many collectors consider every vintage card to be one of a kind because it's condition and print characteristics are unique to itself alone.

"It's the only sgc 20 with ink blotch by his head in existence!"

I still believe that in no way will the t206 price trend continue well into the future...NO WAY!!!!

This is one of my favorite threads recently (along with the Dots Miller thread).
It seems to have a bit of everything.

One thing I'm curious about; the auction description didn't have a photo of the backs, but several people must've asked for a shot of the backs. Is it the fact that the Brain card had the piedmont print on the front that made people suspect there might be gold on the back?


Loved this by Chris: Johnny I do appreciate your enthusiasm for the printer scraps and the descriptive explanation. Made me sit up and take notice.............. I have a few t206's in my modest monster that I consider uniquely interesting (due to stamps or random handwriting or the like), and I do enjoy those. I can see the attraction.


Leon would you mind posting your t206 printer scrap? I really thought it was cool the first time I saw it and would love to see it one more time.


Thanks,
Tony

T206 scraps have become their own individual 'set' to collect. It is easy to group them into different types and there are a lot of them compared to other card types. The fact that there are 524 cards in their parent set also makes a big difference. To me it is a no-brainer as to why they get so much attention compared to other scraps. I just don't see some of the non-aesthetically-pleasing ones as being worth so much. But they are to some people, and that's great.

By the way,Johnny - almost all the t206 cards in my personal collection have something wrong with them, so to say that I have "turned" on them is absurd. I have even paid a premium for a few freaks that I still have.

Just because I'm not sleeping with you doesn't mean I don't love you :)

It's a big set with a long print run. Millions and millions printed, very durable paper with bold colors that lasted. There are just more errors out there from that set....enough show up to keep people interested and keep The demand going.

Either you dig them or you don't.

The front scan showed enough for me to know it was a factory print and not a WST. That's all I was going for and valued it at 2-3k (that's low). I had a suspicion the back was also messed up as the front OP was upside down and off center....not a cylinder transfer but a true test print sheet.

Hunt sent me this and that's what made this card jump to the final price.

http://i.imgur.com/7Kji96O.jpg

Always glad to oblige, Tony. There might be someone in Kenya who hasn't see it yet :). I am so glad I got it before the freaks took off. If I am not mistaking this is STILL the highest price ever paid for a T206 scrap. Someone correct me if I am wrong please...It was $9780 around 4-5 yrs ago. I think it would go higher today...but who knows??


http://luckeycards.com/pt206ghostmultioverprint2.jpg

This thread is interesting. Neat to see what drives others and why I have always taken the stance that all of our collectibles are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. ;)

I have a modest collection of mistakes, errors and oddballs compared to others.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...ant/Errors.jpg

For me on these I sort of take the stance if I can get a really nice example of each type that’s great. Also if I can get it for a price I feel is within reason that’s an added bonus. I don’t see myself needing or wanting dozens upon dozens of these or facing choices of dropping say 10-20k on one of these as compared to a major tier card of a superstar or scarce type card.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...large/T215.jpg

The buying pool isn’t limited to the few that post here while I agree the pool may be smaller say compared to other items it’s not that small.

I also agree that having a few strong bidders enter the fray can seriously tweak prices and those prices can fall. Case in point we have seen this with plenty of cards and it would be silly to think that these are immune from the rise and fall that have hit other cards such as T211, T210, T209B&W, E-Cards, and certain 19th Cards etc.

Cheers,

John

True beauties John.

Most of these are getting beyond the usual suspects on this forum's budgets...we sit and watch several a month go. Its really not like we are enjoying these sky high prices.:eek:

On a much smaller, positive note I was able to reunite these sheetmates after 100 years.

http://i.imgur.com/KSjgptG.jpg

That's cool Chris.

Very nice John.

Is the Magie portrait grouped with the rest in your photo only because it is the famous spelling error, or is there some other printer error associated with this card?

great cards chris and john...modest my ass!!!

Thanks for the kind words, it's just the plain ol' error Magie.

Cheers,

John

Yessssssssssss!!!
 

FINALLY GELLED!!

I have to say, I waited all day to check on this thread....I'm glad it was started and sorry for the little bitch fest of mine:o

I will read more comments later...

I was gonna ask Leon to post that again and those 2 cards are some of my favorites of all time....

Peter I have much love for...

SCOTT YOU ARE BACKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!:D;)

That's the Scott I KNOW!!

I may be crazy....I am obsessed with these....

BTW...I truly dig scrap in other sets, I believe in due time they will get attention also(as long as the sets they are in become popular)

Chris John....:eek: I am envious of your scrap!!

you 2 have COME A LONG WAY ON THIS SCENE....

your cards are just FXXXing RIDIC!!!
many more will follow



trust me on this...


:)


more from me later, i'm having scrap(not crap) seizures seeing these images:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA

:D:D:D

John and Chris, you are sick men.

And I mean that as the highest compliment.

:cool:

This really is a great thread - I love to see Johnny show the occasional negative emotion (it doesn't happen often). Chris is a very subdued version of Johnny, but he definitely has the scrap bug.

I have not told many people this, but the reason my monster number is so small, despite the fact that I basically only collect photos and T206's, is that the only T206's I allow in my collection are 'oddball's - two names (6 have 2 different names), ghosts (2) - and they are sweet ones, missing ink, wrong back colors, two factories, tough backs, etc. So I'm not a purist freak collector, in that I would rather spend thousands on several rare photos as opposed to one piece of scrap, I'm in the general area. Given how many T206's have passed through my hands, it really enhances the collecting experience to build the set the way I'm doing it. When I hit 522 (no Wagner or Doyle), it should be quite the oddball grouping.

Back men out, scrap men in. :D

I never cared much for backs either. :D

Does anybody on here now have my old Frank Baker missing blue?

Great thread!!!
 

This has turned out to be a great thread! I hate flying off the handle, but I'm like the number one scrap advocate:)

Scott.....I know you collect oddball T206 and I think i'm still mad I didn't pick up all those sweet scrap you used to own;)....I still remember the Downey, and how cool it looked, but 10 years ago at $750.00 I almost did it......and the dorner multi strike sweet cap back, which took me 9 more years to find another.....don't mean to bring up the past:o

your a collector, I have always looked up to and still do.......sorry for being a hot head:o

scrap and the freaks make me not think sometimes......:o....as you guys know...

Leon is the man, and thanks for all the compliments from everyone...


The God's honest truth is the cards really can't be enjoyed as much , if it not for this forum to share info.....and every single collector I have met have been the greatest people.....I will add more tom and maybe some scrap:D

And the number one user of emoticons.

T206 scraps
 

It's an interesting debate and the cards are cool looking and worth what people will pay for them.

Argument A- The T206 printers were artesians, honing their craft and carefully calibrating their tools.

Argument B- They were sloppy and probably drunk.

I guess if I had to vote I'd vote for B.

I'm convinced that collecting scraps is awesome.... But... One T206 or 40 old judges... Hmmmm, I'll have to think about that one :)

I bought a brown/yellow scrap Baker 6 or 7 years ago. Is that yours?
I'm sorry I can't post scans, but my computer is down, so I'm posting from work, and I don't have access to scans.

What will this end up at?
 

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...px?lotid=30721

It involves two HOFers. I stick mostly with memorabilia but this type of collecting is very similar to coin collectors collecting errors (i.e. 1955 double die etc...). It has its own subculture and cult following. Nothing wrong at all with it and it is IMHO very good for the hobby.

Nice one Sean.

http://i.imgur.com/rLoCwhs.jpg

Burning the midnight oil, I love it! I busted my ass nearly 80hrs this week.... Looking forward to the next slow period.

Greg....
 

i'm an emotional guy:)

may the Schwartz be with you!!!;)

What's Most Desirable / Valuable on Misprints and Errors?
 

What's at the top of the list when it comes to these types of T206 cards? What do error/misprint collectors value the most? Printer's scrap? Misalignments? Overprints and ghost prints? Blank backs?

Also, where does something like this card fall? It's misprinted on the back (misaligned with two different factory overprints).

How much is something like this worth? Does the player on the front matter, in terms of value, these days?

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=11506

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=11507

Neat card Robert. A little insight into the OP print process.

Robert....
 

you have a very special card there Robert:eek:

never seen one like it:eek:

Value
 

Very tough Robert to put a value on the card. I agree with the Master Johnny V that is incredibly unique. With parts of 4 separate cards and a HOF to boot just simply a great card.

Are T206's the only card set to ever have misprints? Don't think I have ever seen one on the board over the past few months that is not a T206..........

here's one
 

T204 misprinted back

A few posts ago in this thread someone put a e92, also there is an entire thread of t205 freaks and t207 freaks. Or was that sarcasm?

No other card set matters to the cognoscenti. :)

Considering who the remark came from I will go out on a limb and say sarcasm. :) I would guess I have printing errors from approximately 20 different sets other than T206.

...

Could be! Please post scans! Cool...

Oh... The one posted above looks like it! Does it have a pencil erasure? Somebody had written "1B" on it, and I gently erased it with an art eraser.

Adam......
 

you are becoming the master also;) thanx:)

When I think of "unique" and "rare" T206 cards, it's the scraps/freaks/miscuts/ double&triple and multi back print, etc. That's why they are and probably will continue to spike in price. And, if the prices weren't so high, way more collectors would be going after them. ;)

If you can't afford a Magie/Wagner/Plank/Doyle Nat'l, and want rarity in your collection-this is where you end up. Or, go for tough front/back combinations.

The supply is limited, the cards are unique and rare, and I still don't think they have topped out yet.

As far as other sets, I would surely look at the freaks/miscuts/scraps/etc. the exact same way, if I collected those sets. The E92 shown earlier in the thread would be way more desireable(to me) than the regular one with no flaws, if I collected that set. That's just my take on it.

Sincerely, Clayton

The Baker that Chris posted is mine (thanks Chris). Is that your old card?
I don't see any erasure on it, but there is some paper loss on the back.
It's graded PSA 1 for some reason. I thought this type of scrap is always graded authentic ? Was it graded when you owned it ?

I think when you were testing your scanner this was sent my way. It's an odd one, doesn't appear to be handcut or missing the same layers as the yellow/browns. Possibly its faded/chemical...not sure...still a great card.

The Baker above is missing the blue ink pass in the printing process. There was a "1B" written just to the left of the name, and in the top area, I think you can see some erased script text.

I can definitely see a small mark in front of Baker. Can't tell if it said 1B, but it could have. I don't see other marking, but I will look closer when I get home.

I've looked closer and still don't see an erasure at the top, but clearly something was erased in front of the name. Even the "B" in Baker is partly erased. This must be your "missing blue" card. It does have more color than a yellow/brown scrap, but seems to have missed most of the blue pass. And it appears machine cut, unlike scrap cards. :confused:

This is why I love Net54. So far:
You guys explained why this is not a scrap like I thought;
Johhny told me that my Tinker/ Sovereign wet sheet transfer wasn't a WST, and Tim and Ron Kornacki explained that it was a cylander transfer;
Chris, Tim and another member whom I've forgotten (sorry :o) told me how my Plank was missing the dark blue pass, and that it wasn't really the sister card to the white Plank, as my card was from a print run at Factory 30 and Whitey was printed in Factory 25.

This kind of stuff is the reason that I joined Net54. :D Well, this and also so that I can score big with the ladies. :rolleyes:

Thanks guys.

Paul....
 

you are a true "fringe" collector like me;) how have you been my friend?

Sean....your collection of freaks is SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also have Plank envy:D

I don't think it was graded when I owned it. I would've had SGC do it, not PSA.

I knew it was an anamoly, and someone paid me a premium for it, but I am certain it is worth a lot more today. But then, I would have spent the funds on more T206 cards, so I think I did okay. Pretty sure I picked it up for around $40 about 10 years ago. Believe it or not...

Please !!
 

Don't let this die !!