Are you saying that people arent allowed to advertise their own ebay auctions here if they are doing so in order to get a better price?

So because this guy is selling stuff "off of ebay" for his own personal gain it's not against the rules? Or is my definition of "vested interest" completely skewed?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ght=wade+boggs

Why is this JUST NOW coming up? Because this thread is about a high end card? I see people on here ALL THE TIME linking to their own ebay auctions.

Hell there is a section on the main page for linking to ebay auctions in general?

Here is over 100 pages of people "outing" their own ebay auctions because they obviously have a vested interest in how much the item sells for.... and also tons of links where people are pointing out other peoples auctions.

http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Anybody ever see this before?

Ebay/Vintage Card Auctions B/S/T
All posts in this section should involve any ads/notifications for Ebay auctions, Heritage, Huggins & Scott, Lelands, Grandslambids.com, shows etc..

I am not directing this at you in particular Leon .... it is more for everyone else who is complaining ..... yet again.

Now I'll climb back in my hole for a couple days and wait to see if the storm ever passes over this site...........

I can actually answer this question. None. I'm not trying to be cute. I just know the timing of the situation.

I kind of had that feeling.........:D

Sincerely, Clayton

Clayton,

Sorry about the poll :D.

Steve, I think you missed this post by Leon in this thread which already answers your post: Link.

Clayton, there's this tool called snipe software, which people use to try to minimize the final price of an auction. So not sure why your potential poll would even be relevant to this debate.

Hear hear!!

People aren't allowed to advertise their eBay auctions in the main forum because otherwise the whole front page might be flooded with people just here to pimp eBay auctions... Not hard to understand, right? If the seller wanted to advertise the card they can do so in the BST eBay forum. Actually, this could have been "outed" in that forum too, but it would still piss some people off. Like Leon said, there is no rule against outing, it's just irritating (to some).

-1...the last part and some of the condescending tone in the first part just seems to be adding to what's been wrong with net54 lately :(

So it's not annoying? And what is so condescending about the first part? I'm a bottom half collector, I don't think I'm allowed to be condescending, I think I came off wrong because I forgot a smiley :) sorry about that.

Gary, the poll idea was more of a joke. I know about sniping software as well. Here's the way I looked at it. The OP has been a regular poster on this board, longer than both you and I, and I'm sure he knows how people feel about "outing auctions". So, I'm pretty sure he brought attention to the auction for the benefit of the board as a whole-it was a 24 hour auction and a rare item. Not everyone sits on ebay all day long or uses auction sniping software, but the regular posters and board members seem to check the board on a daily or somewhat regular basis.

So, maybe he wanted "board members" who might have an interest in this item, but may not have noticed the auction, to have a shot at it?

I understand people do not like auctions being outed. I get it. But how many of the people who are mad about this auction being outed bid on this item? Anyone? Did you bid before it was outed,or after?

If a rare item is in a major auction house, do you get upset when someone posts "XXXX auction is up and running!!!"?

All of this revolves around the fact that "someone" didn't get a chance at a steal- but the OP gave the whole board a chance to bid on something they might not have noticed if it weren't for this thread. It was a 24 hour auction.

This is just my opinion, and I'm ok with being wrong, if I am.

Sincerely, Clayton

Clayton,

Outing auctions on the main board is just one of those issues where reasonable people will just have differing opinions. For example you brought up that the Brian has been on this board longer than us, so he knows the board better than us. However, I don't want to speak for him, I believe, Leon, who is the board owner would have preferred that auctions like this not be outed. So where does that leave us?

Outing auctions makes items more expensive for those who want to purchase them. So for you, Brian, and others who believe that they are just giving those other collectors a chance, it also makes cards much more expensive for those of us who are looking for those cards. And there is another forum for auctions, the BST board, that has been pointed out before. Just out them there, and not on the main board. You can't have the main board populated with outing cards that some board members think that other board members may be interested in.

I did not bid on this auction at all. I put in a snipe of $6100 for the card, but obviously, it never not executed because the card ran past that figure very quickly after it was outed on the board. As I said in an earlier post, Chris' bid would have crushed mine anyway. I still don't understand why it matters whether I put in a bid before or after the auction was outed. It does not matter because snipes exist, so it's not relevant to the debate of whether someone should out auctions on the main board or not. Not sure why you can't understand this point.

If a rare item from a major auction house gets outed on the main board, sure, I'm a bit annoyed. However, board advertisers can do this, so I am fine with it since it is part of the board rules. For example, during Leland's last auction, Leon mentioned that this auction had a bunch of Tabaco Angola cards which are particularly rare, and for which I was bidding on. I still managed to win the one that I wanted, but I may have paid more for it, who knows. However, sponsors can advertise auctions like this, so I'm fine with it.

One other thing that I don't quite understand is some arguments for this have been framed around "well, you just wanted to get a steal, which is why you didn't want the auction outed?" Are people jealous when other board members get good deals or something? I don't understand this point. For example, when Leon got a particular good deal on a Tobaco Angola card for Ruth that did not list Ruth in the ebay listing, I was not jealous. I was unhappy that I did not know about that auction so I didn't bid on it, but I was happy for Leon and the other board members who put in the work to troll through ebay listing after listing to find these great cards.

I also don't understand some people's opinions on this matter. In my opinion...outing a vaguely advertised...24 hr ebay auction of a rare...high dollar ruth card is NOT comparable to someone "outing" a plank in one of the major auction houses where the auction may last for weeks...not even in the same ball park.

To me it's a matter of etiquette...and some people don't seem to know/care what this means?!

I don't really have any opinion on the "outing".

My first impression was that Brian posted the link because of the sketchy way the item was listed. High end card, one day auction, seller doesn't quite know what he has, or quite where he got it. Legitimate listing or not, it was one red flag after another.

I was really expecting a debate on the validity of the auction itself, not a three page argument revolving around who deserves to see the auction, and who doesn't.

:confused:

Gary,

You told me that it was done, over and that you’ve moved on. Apparently it’s not and you haven’t. I still don’t know why this auction is such a big deal to you and no so much in other auctions (Plank for example) that I also see outed on the main board? When I asked you what the difference was, all I heard from you was excuses. Then Phil chimed in with an answer, “Same applies to other auction houses as well.” While I disagree with his stance on this matter, I have the utmost respect for his opinion because at least he’s consistent no matter what. His opinion doesn’t change based on circumstances. All I’m hearing from you is basically that sometimes it’s okay and sometimes it’s not. Again, if you feel this strongly on the matter, why haven’t you said anything about the Plank thread (or the many other threads where auctions are outed)? Another poster even pointed out that auctions are outed for contests. Ever speak up in one of those threads to condemn the outing of the auction? Sorry, but you couldn’t be any more wrong about this. And it’s not your opinion that’s wrong - it’s the fact that you opinion seems to change based on the circumstances.

too many sour grapes over the "outing" of this card and others on this board. I for one don't care if auctions are outed or not. this card came up in one of my saved searches but I would not have bid on it. what's to say that some of the complainers aren't just flippers , who wouldn't have bought the card on the cheap and then turned around and tried selling it for 5-10x what they paid for it anyway....thats what I really don't like

David,

I am done with this auction and have moved on. However, some posts like this one have been directed at me with questions, so I'm answering them. That's all. Also, I still believe that auctions should not be outed in the future.

I was the poster that pointed out that auctions are outed in contests. Leon is the one who usually does the contests. He owns the board, so obviously, he can do what he wants. I'm definitely not going to interfere there. He usually does it to drum up interest in the hobby, and he doesn't do this for obscure auctions. Only those auctions done by major sellers on ebay who start their auctions at 99 cents. So you can say that he's giving them free advertising privileges for that contest duration.

Some of you guys are a bunch of cry-babies.

They only thing wrong with "outing" an auction is that it costs those of us who ultimately win the "outed" auction money.

Bummer for us, but that's part of the fun of the collecting game. Maybe I'll get a steal, maybe I won't. Oh no! somebody outed it, and now I have to pay more, boo-hoo-hoo.

Next time I sell stuff, I guarantee I will do my best to "out" my auctions, and I hope some of you will do the same.

Laughing at the absurdity of this "debate",
Doug

C'mon guys..this is merely a somewhat spirited discussion here?! More interesting than someone posting "Is this beat to shit T206 card a proof or printers scrap?" or someone letting the community know a red old mill back is fake...no duh!

My Hero!:D

While the line can be blurry, there is certainly no comparison between a 24 hour, poorly/vaguely- described auction on Ebay and a major auction house's featured item in a two-week auction directed expressly at our hobby. None.

I do not believe in outing any auctions, but it is fair to suggest that a major auction house that sends out specific-target advertising and catalogues and provides such a lengthy time for discovery and thus bidding is not really capable of being "outed". This is particularly true if you're talking about a T206 Plank. Of course, this is not what happened in the Ruth m101-6 ebay auction.

It does become more complicated if the seller is a less-prominent auction house. Also, I have seen little gems buried in multi-card lots in major house auctions, some added late to the catalogue/website, that should not be "outed", IMO.

There may not be an absolute rule against exposing ongoing auctions and probably should not be. However, as Pete said, it is a matter of etiquette. When in doubt, don't out.

On second thought, I think that the following rules should be implemented effective immediately :

#1 - It shall be against the rules to "out" any auction, by anyone, including the seller.

#2 - All auctions shall be run by me before they are posted on ebay or any other company site, or published in any catalog, so that I can see what they are, and if I want to buy the item, please refer to rule #1

Ahhh, ego reinforcement. Love it :D. I actually have a list I'd like to run by you, but it violates rule #1.

Drats! Foiled!

Revision of rule #2 :

#2 - All POTENTIAL auctions shall be run by me before they are posted on ebay or any other company site, or published in any catalog, so that I can see what they are, and if I want to buy the item, please refer to rule #1

That's better.

I don't think people get jealous about people getting good deals, speaking for myself, I'm happy for people when they get a great deal. Like I said earlier, I understand why people don't want auctions outed. I am not confused about the benefits to some of an auction being missed by the majority.

I bet you wouldn't mind if the auction was only "outed" to you via a PM, and you and only you had a chance to bid on it. Would you be morally upset by that type of outing? Of course not. But, if it's outed to the whole board, it's a sin.

Sincerely, Clayton

Doug,

You're still my Hero :D.

Really??
 

'Outing' an auction is somehow considered bad?? So letting a card sell for less than the market value is good? Is that good for the seller?? Is that good for the community as a whole - artifically holding down realized prices so that one person can get a 'good deal'?

We're mostly free-market supporters here, right? Why would the community want to suppress demand for anything?

I don't get it, unless I'm only out for ol' #1 and you have 'outed' the auction that I was planning to get a steal on.

For those who think "outing" an auction is OK, I say you are wrong.

If you don't have the time (or are too lazy) to comb through page after page of over-priced cards or shiny new junk on eBay, I ask WHY you should get the advantage of bidding on or buying a card you did little to no work for?

If I person puts in the time on eBay to find an under-priced gem then I think they should get the reward for that effort.

I mean, how would YOU like it if YOU were to go to the National and spend hours walking the aisles and YOU found something under-priced in a dealers case and, just as YOU were going to buy it, I stepped up and said VERY LOUDLY, "Wow, look at how low priced this rare card is?". Would YOU be upset about that?

Look, people think it is OK, to drive around neighborhoods looking in garages with their doors open and out in the countryside for parked cars that might be for sale at bargain prices.

People think it is OK to study and learn about real estate and then go looking for bargain properties to buy.

People think it is OK to comb the Wall Street Journal or look on line for under-priced stocks that they hope to buy and make a profit on.

Hardly anybody begrudges these people their time and effort (work) that they have put in to these endeavors in hopes of making a profit so what is the difference about a baseball card?

If YOU were the guy who found the rare car or the under-priced piece of real estate or stock, how would YOU feel if, after all of YOUR time and effort, somebody else came along and let a heck of a lot more people know about what YOU had found and THAT caused the price to increase?

Personally, I would be pissed. I think the SAME consideration should go for outing auctions.

The only way I think an auction should be outed is if there is a misrepresentation that can be or should be corrected (for auction houses) or, if on eBay, a seller is trying to sell a fake or reprint and we think people should know about it so that they don't get ripped off.

That is just my two cents on this issue.

David.

And when people give a recommendation on CNBC or some other news network, people don't go in an uproar if it was their stock that they were watching.

That is true. They should get that reward, if they choose. Then again, it's their information and they can also divulge it, if they choose. In this case, the OP put in the time on eBay to find an under-priced item (just as you described above), so it's his information to do with as he pleases. If he wants to keep it to himself, he has an opportunity to be rewarded for his efforts. Or if he wishes to divulge the information, so be it - it's his information because he put in the time/effort as you described.

One thing that Ebay has done is to bring together buyers and sellers (from around the world) and let the market determine the price of an item - better than almost any other mechanism that I can recall in my limited experience.

For every buyer that gets a 'steal', a seller loses a potential profit. If a fair price is agreed upon, then both parties walk away content.

I guess I just don't see what's wrong with letting the market work efficiently.

So yeah, I'd be bummed if I had a beeline on a mis-catagorized card on the Bay and thought I was going to get it for some less-than-fair price, but I've got no right to whine and complain because someone out-bid me.

David...well said!

cry-babies .....man !!! these are baseball cards guys....not stocks,bonds,gold,real estate,or anything with real value. A card in an outed auction is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I , unfortunately could not trade the chevy dealer up the road some T206 hall of famers for a new car. he told me I had to have real money

If a patient came into my practice and had a box of tobacco and caramel cards...and no insurance or cash...id happily trade my services for cards.

Cards are currency...you are incorrect!

Anyone know if this is scrap or not...thanks.

http://i.imgur.com/mlcim72.jpg

Jake,

Yes, a person who had already purchased that stock would certainly be happy if a person went on CNBC to tout it and it apreciated in value because of the recommendation. But that is not what happened with the Ruth card and you (and others) don't seem to understand this. The Ruth card didn't sell and THEN the auction was outed, the Ruth card was still up for grabs when the info came out about it.

This would be like YOU doing research on a stock and putting in a market order tonight and going to bed feeling happy about the potential profit you were about to make because of the effort YOU had put in and THEN finding out tomorrow morning that you DIDN'T get the stock at the low price you thought you were going to get it at because at 9:15 A.M., an analyst went on CNBC and touted it as a raving buy because of whatever reason.

Vintagetoppsguy,

If a person were interested in this Ruth card and thought it was flying under the radar and was, thus, under-priced, WHY for Heaven's (or Pete's) sake would they come on this board and out it? Why wouldn't they just keep quiet until AFTER the auction had ended?

T206dk,

"cry-babies .....man !!! these are baseball cards guys....not stocks,bonds,gold,real estate,or anything with real value. A card in an outed auction is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I , unfortunately could not trade the chevy dealer up the road some T206 hall of famers for a new car. he told me I had to have real money."

Really? Cry babies? These cards are NOT stocks, bonds, gold, real estate or anything with real value?

WOW!!!!!

Let me ask you this? If you wanted to buy this card and had the choice of paying $4,000 dollars or $10,000 dollars which would you choose? Would YOU be upset if for some reason somebody else caused you to pay the additional $6,000 dollars?

If you OWNED this card which would you rather have, the $4,000 or the $10,000? In either case, that $6,000 dollars IS REAL MONEY!!!!!

If I had $10,000 to spend on cards and could buy this Ruth I would be happy if I only had to pay $4,000 dollars for it. Because that would mean I had $6,000 dollars to spend on OTHER cards.

If I OWNED this Ruth, I would be happy if the price jumped from $4,000 dollars to $10,000 dollars because that would mean I HAD an extra $6,000 dollars to go to the car dealer and buy a car with.

Finally, for those who don't think outing an auction is such a big deal because, in the end, the seller gets more money for what they are selling, do YOU pay full price at a business when THEY are having a sale? I mean, YOU wouldn't pay less for something that a business is selling because if you did that would mean that business wasn't getting as much money as they should be getting.

David

I actually was talking about if the stock was on someone's watch list and not yet bought. All info for public stocks are just that "public". You and I have the same access to the same information. Obviously fees are charged for expert opinions and analysis, but the basis is still there.

The same applies with eBay, this isn't some arbitrary estate sale in Wichita Kansas. This is a listing on a website that everyone and anyone can lookup. Every listing on this website can be found by anyone. If someone finds a listing people might be interestead in it is his privilege to report, keep it to himself and/or tell a select few.

If I had the option to have

A) all listings placed well, described well and scanned well.

B) all listing placed poorly, described poorly and scanned poorly.

I would choose A every time. I would prefer every person to have an equal opportunity to purchase every item.

David- since you are throwing out hypothetical situations, let me present you with this hypothetical:

I stumble upon a rare Ruth card that isn't listed correctly on ebay. I know that there may be 30 to 40 board members who would love to bid on the card, but I'm not sure that they even know about it. I have no intentions of bidding on it myself, and it's a 24 hour auction. I just worked all day, and don't have the time to PM every board member I think would love to bid on this card, being that the auction is already underway.

Do I bring the auction to the boards attention, thus giving my fellow board members a shot at the card they may not have known about-or-do I not say anything?

I'm not saying this is the reason the thread was started, but would love to hear your take on this hypothetical. Thanks-

Sincerely, Clayton

If you're not using the ebay mobile app for your phone or tablet, your missing out on one of the best tools to help you find great deals. There I outed all the great deals at once...

I guess my slant is different. I have really collected only CJs the past couple years with the 1914s worth anywhere from 1.5 to 10xs the value of their 1915 counterparts. Sometimes 1914s would be listed as 1915s most of these sellers didnt know the difference and Id email them to correct it. I guess I feel I had the same motivation as the "outers" here, but emailing the seller seemed more appropriate than posting on the front page here...and Ive found a lot of CJ collectors never verify the year on these sales. I just dont see why someone would out the auction...and if we all did that wouldnt the front page be filled with these?

Clayton,

In the situation you described, if you found the card and they didn't and you have no interest in the card then you shouldn't say anything. If so think so many people are interested and all of them missed it then that is their fault.

I mean, if you were to out it by private messaging people, how would you decide who you PM'd first? Because whoever was PM'd earlier would have an advantage. If other people found out you were PM'ing people about this card, don't you think they would be upset if you sent the message to another person before them?

The only two solutions I see as possible with your scenario are these:

1) Do nothing. If you found this card, have no interest in it and the other board members didn't find it then that is their bad luck.

2) If you have the means, buy the card yourself and then either relist it on eBay in the proper category with the proper description and tell other board members about it in the proper B/S/T area or send it to an auction house which deals in sports items. That way everyone who is interested has a chance at the card.

Number two might seem crass but YOU did the work and found the card and YOU would be reaping the benefits.

This past Summer, I missed out on a T206 card with a brown Hindu back. The cost was all of $5 dollars. The sad thing is, I KNEW about this card for a couple of years.

This person had a yard sale about three years ago and I asked if they had any sports stuff. This guy said his Dad had collected some cards and he took me into his garage. There I found a literal stack of boxes and albums of cards. Most of the stuff was newer shiny crap but he had, by some way, found some older cards too.

In one box on top of the stack were the older cards he had found. There were three T206's in that box. The one with a brown Hindu back (a common), another common with a Piedmont back and then a common with a large chunk out of it. I asked if any of these cards were for sale and he said yes but he would have to do some investigation and get back to me (since his Dad had recently died). I gave him my name and number and left. I never heard back from him.

Flash forward to last Summer. My Mom tells me that her neighborhood is having a community sale and she wants me to help her clean her yard up and dig through the attic, closets, basement and garage to find things to sell at the sale she is going to have. I think about the guy with the cards and make a mental note to go see if he is 1) still living in the house, 2) still has the cards and 3) has decided if he is going to sell the cards and for how much. Unfortunately, I got busy (and tired) doing all of the work Mom wanted me to do and didn't have a chance to get to the guy's house before the sale started.

So, after I helped Mom get all of her stuff out the morning of the sale, I drove to the guy's house and yes, he still lived there, yes, he still had the cards and yes, he was selling them. I looked around and found two of the three T206's. I asked about the third and he said he had sold that one earlier in the morning.

So, because of my own mistake, I cost myself the chance to buy a brown Hindu backed T206 for $5 dollars. I had the information and didn't act on it. I didn't act on this info for three years out of respect for the guy's Dad having died and the seller not knowing if he wanted to sell or not. In that time period, collecting the different backs has become more popular and brown Hindu's have gone up in price. I kick myself every time I think about this. But whose fault is it? MINE!!!

I did the work but failed to follow through. Somebody else obviously didn't and they got the benefits of it.

To make this long story short, I think the people who do the work should get the benefits of that work. That, to me, means if YOU dig through the pages of eBay and find something YOU think is undervalued then either YOU should take advantage of that situation or just let it go. If other people don't find it then that is their tough luck. Outing an auction just makes hard feelings for all involved. So, what people don't know wont hurt them and wont cause a stink on this board.

David

Ctownboy- your comparisons are not really apt. Your comparing a small town sale that only a few people would be at leisure to access, to a widely and heavily used public website.

The one thing I hope members take away from this thread, is the fact that there really can't be a rule about outing, other than it's against the rules to out your own auction, or conspire with someone to do it for one of theirs. At this stage in our forum I think (I could be wrong) most of our rules, or instances of no-rules, are sound. That being said the best way to stay current is to always entertain other ideas. There has to be a better mousetrap!! (well, maybe)

In a practical sense, I only see positives from outing an auction, as long as its adhering to Leon's rules (i.e. don't out your own auctions):

1. The seller got the price that they deserved
2. The buyer got a card they wanted (that they may not have known about)
3. Other bidders didn't get the card, but they also didn't spend $10.6k

So, its "wins" all around in my opinion

I dunno, ask the guy that paid 10.6k if he would have preferred it be outed or not.

Indeed. Maybe he didn't know about it until it got outed?

Also, it's been mentioned in another thread and seemed to get pretty unanimous support: don't bid more than you're willing to spend.

Pretty good rule of thumb.

Finally, why is the buyer more important than the seller? Everyone is concentrating on what a great deal COULD have been had on this card. Isn't the seller entitled to getting what the card is worth?

Again, assuming the buyer didn't go into debt or something to buy the card, everyone got an equitable deal here.

Hey, there is a reason there is no rule. I am just saying, if I were the buyer I would prefer not to have thousands of unnecessary collectors looking at what I am bidding on and talking about it. It probably did work out better for the seller. Of course the seller is entitled to every penny he can get....but it is his/her responsibility to get the most for it, not ours. I will reiterate, these are all reasons there is no rule. Happy collecting....

This is getting kinda old...but...in this case the buyer did not do his due diligence on selling the card...he did not assign an acc designation to it...did not mention the manufacturer/maker of the card...his description was vague and therefore he did not deserve full value...in my opinion. It is not the buyers job to market and promote someone elses auction.

Thanks for the reply David.

I totally understand where you are coming from, and agree on some points. In your scenario though, you knew about the cards for a couple of years. In my scenario, the 24 hour auction is already underway.

I get the points about someone doing a lot of combing through ebay (you say this is the hard work) and finding a possible steal-and then someone else outs the auction, and you are now competing with many instead of a few- but,even if you are only competeing with a few, you still may get blown out of the water by one of those few having deep pockets-thus, your hard work doesn't give you any reward, only frustration. There's no guarantee either way that you will win the card.

As far as PM'ing board members- I'm sure this happens all of the time. I may not have an interest in a card, for whatever means- but, may PM another member who I think may want it- is this wrong? You are saying I should just buy the card, and offer it to him myself?

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reason, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

In another post, you kind of described two types of people, one who didn't have the time to search, and one who is lazy. Of course no one wants the lazy person to win :D but unfortunately ebay auctions don't work that way-it's all about who is willing to spend the most money-period.

No one in life wants to feel that the reward of all of their hard work will be reaped by someone else. But I guess to me when looking at cards/hobby I don't equate it with a grueling 10 hour day at work (I know some people here who sell will disagree with that statement ;)) - meaning, a hobby should be fun, not some cut throat "I found it first, F everyone else, too bad for them they didn't find it, it's ALL MIIINNNEEE" type of thing.

Anyhow- I've never outed an auction. But, truth be known, I don't really care. I've just found this to be an interesting thread where it comes down to ethics and morals, and seeing where people agree and disagree.

Thanks again for the reply-

Sincerely, Clayton

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reson, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

This argument makes no sense to me at all?!?! If someone works 10-12-whatever hours/day and then has to tend to their wife and/or kids...this is the life they have chosen. If one chooses to go to the gym for 4 hours after working every day and as a result doesn't take the time to scour ebay for deals on vintage bb cards...why the hell should they reap the rewards of someone who puts in the time? Makes absolutely no sense!

pete

Love the attitude. "If you don't know what you have, you *deserve* to get taken advantage of!".

Geez, you're such a good person, how come you don't go through some ebay auctions, and if they are badly described, scanned, or miscategorized, out them on the main board so the poor seller doesn't get taken advantage of?

Not exactly...this guy knew what he had had significant value...he chose not to take 5-10 minutes to research it...the card says f and m on the bottom...had he googled babe ruth f and m he most likely would have found some info on this card...including recent sales prices.

How much effort would this take? Not much?

If one is a go getter...a hard worker...he/she deserves to reap the benefits of his/her hard work...as compared to the lazy one...who in my opinion does not deserve the same!

Just curious here, Gary...any reason you're taking this thread so personal? Peter seems offended as well...even thinks the thread is getting old and still comes back and responds.

I see both sides of the spectrum here, but since there is obviously two sides that have legitimate arguments, why try really hard to make your point...it's already been made!

Some would say that it is proper etiquette to alert a seller who does not know what he has of what he has. You know, Do Unto Others. Our definition of etiquette is oft times defined by self interest, purely human.

Good points made on both sides of this issue. I agree with Leon we don't need a rule. I have no idea if 10,600 is a good or bad price. I am however happy that he didn't end the auction early in response to an offer trying to take advantage of his lack of information. That's just me.

I guess to me it's the ethical dilemna?! I have a very high moral/ethical standard...and I expect the same of others...which I know is ridiculous especially in this hobby and on the internet...but I still do! And I believe in fairness...and that hard work is rewarded.

If anything I should be glad the auction was outed as it reaffirmed the value of my f and m ruth! But being the sick f$ck that I am...fairness trumps money in my book!

Sorry, Mike, it's not personal. And I had already told David that I would refrain from posting any more in this thread. However, to me, at least, some posts seem so idiotic, I feel like I have to respond. I get it. One person's idiotic response is another person's common sense reply.

Yeah you are right-they deserve NOTHING. To hell with them and the life they "chose".

And, what's "putting in time"? You assume it took hours and hours to find the card. What if the person found the card in 3 seconds of searching?

It's not an argument, by the way- I presented a hypothetical question and got an answer. I responded, no one is arguing.

Sincerely, Clayton

+1...you read my mind about etiquette. Although I don't believe it's our job to inform any certain seller about their auction, I believe in doing the right thing if I can help it.

And this, you talk about "etiquette", morals, ethics- but you find it ok to constantly disrespect people who collect T206 cards. Is that the kind of "etiquette" you are referring to? Just wondering.

Sincerely, Clayton

Question: I could never find the "f and m" anywhere on this card. I actually was somewhat confused as to how everyone knew immediately what this was. I thought is was an Exhibit at first. Just curious?

Not all M101-6s have the F.M. designation. You can tell by the picture and the way the name of the player is written. When I saw the listing on here I immediately knew what it was.

i guess one other way to look at this is that some of you feel that the seller was entitled to full retail value for this card...even though he did not do due diligence in selling it.

If all transactions that occurred in this hobby occurred at full retail...there would be no hobby! Someone has to get a card/item for less money in order to resell it for a profit?

My ribbing t206 collectors is just that! I realize it's hard to detect inflection/tone on the internet...but I mean no harm.

They Don't All Have the FM
 

Not mine:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...psdf08d743.jpg

my bad...no f and m on the card...nonetheless a google search for babe ruth cf ny yankees would yield an image of a graded m101-6 ruth.

A hobby is supposed to be fun, and not so "cut throat". I guess that's why outing this auction doesn't seem like the ultimate sin to me. But, I understand the reasons why people are against it.

I try to keep in mind that we (or at least I) am specifically talking about this 24 hour auction- not a typical 7 day auction, where everyone does have a chance to take the time to search. Maybe this is where things are getting crossed.

Sincerely, Clayton

Heres another

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8324/8...fabd96be_z.jpg

That seems to me much less like a hobby and much more like a business.

To me, there really isn't any way of knowing how much the final price was impacted by posting the information on here. Sure, the price jumped initially when the auction was posted on here. But how many people were set to snipe the auction?

Way back on page on one or two, there was a poster that said he saw the auction before it was mentioned on here and wasn't going to let the card go cheap. I just don't believe a $10,000 card with "Babe Ruth" in the auction title is going to slip by the entire collecting community and go for a massive discount. Maybe if it was a high-dollar rarity of a more obscure player, but not Babe Ruth. I can imagine not many people search for "Slow Joe Doyle" or "Louis Lowdermilk" daily on eBay, but "Babe Ruth" is another story.

I'm fairly confident in saying that if all the auctions in which I bid were outed, I'd have both less money and fewer cards. Neither of which would please me.

The best way for me to compete against those with deeper pockets is to scan Ebay better than the next guy and to find the mislabeled/misspelled etc cards. The two cards I put in the February pick up thread were both obtained this way.

Shouldn't the real question be why this was a 24 hr auction and general lack of info yet was bought at a major auction house? Seller either didn't care or knew exactly what they were doing,but still, 24 hrs ??

I believe he said he was moving and needed some quick cash.

Cash
 

He certainly raised some.

And quick !! Still a bit shocking with a card like this or maybe this will become the hot new trend.

His feedback is interesting, 4 years ago he sold a PSA/DNA 8 Ruth auto'd ball for 7G+. Has/had some nice stuff.

Looks like Andrew has a new card he can offer for sale.

A question - for those who are opposed to 'outing,' do you feel the same about 'outing' an eBay listing where the seller is selling a decent looking reprint as an authentic card? If you think that kind of outing is OK, why the difference of position?

That could certainly be construed as an instance of helping out someone who "hadn't done their homework."

Hi Matt!

Anyone know where I can find a nice Heilmann M101-6?

if a seller is trying to deceive a buyer in selling a fake as authentic...I have no problem with it being outed...who wants a reprint???

Agreed. The board has always been great at exposing fraud. To me there is a big difference in outing fraud and outing a misidentified but authentic item. There are certainly good arguments on both sides of this debate. And I hope no one construes my preference as anything more than one collectors preference. I remember several years ago when I had spotted one of those notebooks on ebay, that has the E95/E96 type players on the cover. It was going somewhat unnoticed and I was hopeful. It then got outed on the board and went for something like 5k. Forget all of the reasons for and against outing, as a collector I was bummed. I didn't win it as I didn't have 5k to spend on it.