Well Scott you're clearly not trying to actually solve anything here, you just sound like an angry person lashing out at the hot topic of the day.

There is plenty that can be done about bad things, but having a defeatist attitude like you seem to have doesn't help. When you start to make clearly irrational arguments, it also makes you look foolish and you lose credibility.

So, if you're actually trying to help, then by all means ... otherwise, stand aside and let the adults get to work.

Paul, look in a mirror and read what you just wrote, but remove the name "Scott". You might learn something.

LOL - the old "look in the mirror" comment? Good one!

With originality and intelligence like that you'll go far buddy!

+1 ... especially considering all the constructive comments and questions that get ignored when talking about ebay. So to reiterate:

Step 1 (as to ebay) - Make bid retractions go through customer service. No one should be able to have 108 bid retractions.

Paul,

I've provided a rebuttal to your argument twice in this thread, and both times you have ignored it. For someone who claims to be an adult who solves problems, you seem to have an amazing capacity to ignore any countervailing argument.

Don't take it personally my friend. I don't always see everything everyone writes.

Per your comment, if you don't want to pay an AH there's nothing they can do other than cancel your account and threat to sue which will only make sense at a certain threshold.

I agree that the bidding retracting policy is rather garbage on ebay, but they do have semi-transparency. I much prefer that to the zero transparency that offbay AHs have.

Ideally, the buyer would have to go through a more stringent process to retract bids, as you suggest - and there would be more sever consequences for nefarious behavior such as a clear pattern of bid retraction to shill items.

There is room for improvement everywhere, and part of the responsibility falls on us bringing it to the attention of those who can actually do something about it.

Probstein
 

Scott-

Yes, Rick got a consignment fee. Some of the cards i consigned went for less than i hoped but a few went for more. Overall, i'm okay with what i cleared. I realize that i might be able get more if i sold them myself but there are several reasons i chose to consign - the time involved to list which i guess could be considered lazy but the main reason is not wanting to deal with scammers and ebays policies of always taking the buyers side. I also feel Rick gets more interest in his bids then i would.

I have sold a few things lately on the BST, i could be naive but i feel it is a safe option. Most of the things i have sold this way have sold very quickly though so i feel i might have listed too low and left money on the table, something a auction format might have avoided. I have consigned some cards to Sterling for their next auction hoping to see if the result are better.

Would i consign to Rick again? I'm not sure, but if i don't it will be because i found a more profitable alternative not because i don't trust him.

I know you trust him - you made that clear in your previous post. I was just curious if you did okay overall. My guess was that you did, but you started your post by giving examples of how you didn't.

Can somebody send me a PM when this Paul guy has either left the board, or doesn't post that often anymore? Seriously I don't even want to come on and read this forum anymore. I used to come here to read about vintage baseball cards, but all I have seen for the last 2 weeks is an endless tirade from a broken record going on and on about auction houses. Sick of it.

"otherwise, stand aside and let the adults get to work."

Whatever, dude. You're the least grown up person here.

Probstein
 

Scott-

I decided to sell things that were extra or no longer fit what i collected. I had heard good things/success stories about Rick on the CU forums so i gave it a shot.

I did feel that Ricks auctions got more attention and interest than others. However looking back at the 3 auctions that were bought and resold within a 2week period i noticed that one person won 2 of them and didn't even bid in Rick's auction 2 weeks prior. Maybe this person didn't see Ricks auction, wasn't intersted in the cards at the time or just didn't want to deal with Rick. I don't know but seems odd, does prove to me that Rick will not always get the best return.

I have consigned with Rick several times and have had the pleasure of meeting him at a couple of the National Conventions. I have never had any issues at all. He does a great job of listing the items, pays out quickly, and most importantly he takes the time to actually communicate with you. He is a class act in my book.

"I did feel that Ricks auctions got more attention and interest than others."

Okay, now I understand. Thank you.

I've bought many cards from Rick and will continue to do so.
 

I never bid. I snipe the item with my best price in the last few seconds. Doesn't that provide the greatest deterent to shill bidding?

Yes, as long as your best priced isn't based on impressions gathered from shilled auctions.

And you can only do this on ebay.

Paul do you prefer purchasing your cards on Ebay or through Auction Houses? I'm asking on behalf of the rest of the forum members because I'm not quite sure that we all understand where you stand on this matter........LOL

Random card break. Just grabbed the first scan I saw.:D

Attachment 87788

stop !
 

Hey,
stop ruining the real good" senseless arguement" groove that we got going here... with something so off base as a post of a baseball card !

Silly me:eek:

I appreciate Rick answering earlier in the thread. I have bought from him before and I will again. He's right, a big dog in the industry gets the big target.

Rich

+ 1

It's only been 18 days. Give him/her time to save up enough allowance for a new video game and things will be back to normal.

Please go back to your bf in the camo shorts. Heard he likes +1's.

I really think you only post to aggravate people and some of these folks fall for it. I on the other hand know you are just a lonely guy/gal confused about your currently sexuality.

honus94566-Dave
 

honus94566-Dave

No need to leave the board!

Just go under "user CP" and add a member's name to your "Ignore List".

Works better than Preparation H! ;)


Jantz

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this

Once this semester is in the books WE will have the want list complete and bring the NOIZE. Until then it's research papers, red bull, and reason.

Hi Bill Holler,

Care to explain why you have such horrible feedback on ebay:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller

I don't think he's got the time to explain he's to busy looking for a rock!
paints a clear picture of some of Probstein bashers interesting!!

Bill if I was 15 I might think this comment was funny. I actually find this comment extremely offensive and would ask for you and any other board member to not make comments or gestures pertaining to sexuality. I know you can say as you want here but expect repercussions for comments like that.

Posts regarding vintage baseball cards are the meat and potatoes of Net54. An occasional good senseless argument is the gravy.

But if you spill the gravy, .......
 

then you have to clean the carpet.

:D Nice !!!

Thanks-

Sincerely, Clayton

My bad. I blame the beer. The new Budweiser Black Crown is really strong.

My apologies to anyone I may have offended.

Bill Holler, still waiting for an explanation of this:

http://bubblebathgirl.com/images/n54/IMG_0913.PNG
http://bubblebathgirl.com/images/n54/IMG_0914.PNG

that's some atrocious feedback!

Since you insist on posting it everywhere...
 

I will just include this link http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...35#post1088435

So much drama on NET54 recently...

So I pretty much stopped contributing to the PSA boards because of all the keyboard-courage fueled snide remarks, the allegations bordering on slander, the reality-disconnected expectations that people need to somehow be aware of every post about them on a website, and then appear immediately to defend themselves, and a failure to do so implies guilt. The inability of threads to stay focused and debates to stay reasonable and rational, and the overall uncivil, nasty tenor of the discourse. The constant complaining about possible shilling, inconsistent grades, outrageous conspiracy theories, the list goes on ad nauseum.

It's enough to sour someone on the hobby, to see what others who collect are like-- on the internet. Whenever I attend a show, which is infrequent, I have such fun meeting card enthusiasts in person and talking with them. Is it the anonymity of the internet what makes people so nasty toward each other?

All I know is that I'd heard for a long time that the Net54 forum was a place with a much more civil, mature vibe and was where one could go to learn more about cards, and talk cards with fellow collectors.

We all know shilling exists. We all know that the degree of transparency on ebay vs AH's IN EFFECT means nothing, because there is NOTHING stopping random accounts on ebay from shilling.

It seems that anytime anyone loses an auction and gets salty, they can dig up a bidder on ebay and scream SHILL, and then take the utterly unfounded and slanderous leap of implicating the seller as well as the card's owner. What a leap that is.

These days I tend to most trust the customer service of the two main sellers on ebay, Probstein and PWCC. If one were to look at my bidding history in some 30-day windows, they'd see 100% of my bids with those sellers. Does this make me a shiller?

Anyway, I think the internet is a great thing for the hobby, in terms of opening up the market so we can buy cards from all over. But the internet's affect on the social interaction part of our hobby is another thing altogether. Who wants to go somewhere to read about cards and see all this Sturm und Drang?

You see a card you want at auction, bid what you'd like to pay for it. You win it, great, you lose it, whatever. You don't like auctions, buy elsewhere. It's so simple.

No one can stop shilling. That's not defeatist. It's a fact. Human avarice will always find a way. But the individual can render it a moot issue by choosing to pay their price. I've never lost an auction and then went into the auction bidding data to hunt for shillers. I bid, I lost it, I move on in the hunt.

For me, I think the answer is to use the internet only to buy for a while.

I'm going to go look at my cards and remember that they are the hobby, not this thread.

Are you talking 10 bids or 100 bids with a single seller over a 30 day window? Do you make a practice of retracting bids?

edited.

Not sure why I let myself get drawn into these train-wreck threads, but I'm outta here.

Sorry to the legit posters for encouraging these guys.

+1

+1

54 is starting to feel like Cu. :mad:

I agree. I have a sudden rekindled interest in t206s so I will just try to read the threads and not post.

CU
 

Same clowns different circus.

Still waiting for an explanation of why you tried to ripoff at least 9 different people on ebay for thousands of dollars.

The evidence isn't going anywhere.

And BTW, because ebay is setup with a feedback system and semi-transparency we're able to see that Bill Holler is a crook ... with AHs you'd never know since they have neither.

OK Paul. Now you are starting to wear on me. Everybody on this board knows how you feel concerning auction houses. You have reiterated yourself so many times I am about to puke. We get it. As far as Bill and his ebay stuff, he explained his side. I suggest you move on to what this board is best for and that is discussing vintage baseball cards or newer ones in the appropriate areas. thanks

Leon how do you really feel? :D

Btw, I emailed Bill, LSUtigers1973, when he came on the board concerning his ebay issues. If anyone cares to look Bill had 1450+ transactions, and besides some issue with those silver coins (9 negs), had only 2 negatives. So I feel there was an issue with the silver coins but besides that he had been a pretty good ebayer. Not perfect, but pretty darned good. We don't usually get into things not on this board, in the way of who is permitted here. Regardless of that this bickering back and forth is going to stop very soon. If anyone isn't on this page to discuss vintage baseball cards then there are other places you might go, but it's not here. Don't take this the wrong way....pointing out issues is a good thing. Pointing the same ones out over and over and over, and belaboring the point, not so good.

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs...rn=Received+by




.


.

I still like the idea of a 'playpen' sub-sub-sub-forum, where the new PSA people can talk about this stuff to their heart's content. Any vintage people who visited that area would know exactly what they were getting themselves into.

Amen, It seems when some of the newer members left other boards and joined here we get more and more of these argumentive(spelling?) posts.

Joe

here here
 

I like that comment - keyboard courage !.... probably a lot of nerdy,goofy,out of shape,overweight,bald, members...that sign in to net 54..pop open a beer ( or stronger !) ..and start typing away...getting bolder and bolder sitting behind their little desk top computer..in the dark...with the TV in the backround tuned to some stupid reality show ...and there they sit ..with the three day old dirty shirt on..and worn out ripped shorts....what I sight !..but they have " keyboard courage" ...
I just cringe at that thought of this in my mind !

Ral G

As a long time collector I have visited this site often for information and recently have been posting. I find it troubling all the new posts about complaining and calling people out. Maybe a "bitching or complaining" section should be added to clean up this site. This is the Vintage(Pre-WWII) section and should remain so. (I get the irony of my complaint, sorry.) Bill.

Funny, I'm new here so far be it from me to make any suggestions to a longtime community, but was also thinking how all online forums would benefit from a discrete "Bitching & Moaning" section, where all griping and negativity could be. Would make the other areas so pleasant to browse and likely lead to more time spent on the site(s).

Yes
 

I agree !, also Id like to see all members pass a breathilizer test before logging onto the site

Ral G

+1! I recently joined and was super excited both to gain knowledge and build my collection not to partake/view posts like this...

I agree there should be some sort of "Policing" section where members can call attention to any nefarious activities that are happening.

I'm surprised how many people are against calling out possible wrong doing in our hobby.... It's also strange how many people are coming out of the woodwork to defend Rick. Very interesting.

I will add that I'm happy to see Rick post and discuss his customers bidding practices. I wish he'd not allow so many retractions but we can't win them all.

Net54 already has a Bitching & Moaning section. It's called the Autograph Forum.

I am bald, overweight, out of shape, and usually watching crappy reality TV when on this site. Thanks Ral. Still, manage to pick up a few cards here and there. Got this one a little while back. Looks like it was laminated. Any idea if that was the case?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1932-ZEENUT-s...pnQ~~60_12.JPG

It looks like smudges to me although it does have a "plasticy" shine to it....does it feel like laminate? :)

Kawika....yours might be the best sig line saying I have seen-

"Greetings and Love to One and All"

that's quite classic.

It looks and feels laminated to me. The guy I bought it from suggested that it might have had wax applied. My guess would have been lamination, but really not sure what was readily available around the time this was released and whether anyone has come across anything similar. Very familiar with people shellacking balls, but not so familiar with people coating their cards.

Maybe an IQ test as well. Amazing what has found it's way here.

I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Murcerfan sighting.

Stole it from a reggae movie. It's an attitude I aspire to although I frequently fall short.
I have always regarded jcmtiger Joe's "Ty Cobb, Spikes Flying" as one of the best Net54 sig lines ever. Terse and evocative - a ton of baseball content packed into four short words. But for all around impact it's hard to beat Jay (or was it Lee?) Behren's "Mom upside down is wow". Hard to put a good spin on that one but always was good for a perverted chuckle.
What was this thread about again?

It's a waxer... A kid waxed it back in the day and used it for "flipping"? I might be wrong about the name of the game, I'm having a memory lapse.

It was waxed to make it slightly heavier, which made it easier to toss and lean against the wall it was tossed at.

so that WAS you peeping in my window. Please stop. You are scaring my dog :)

Oh OK..so that was you after all !

Thanks Matt. That is what the seller had said, I just hadn't heard of anyone waxing their cards. I appreciate the confirmation.

Thanks Greg, How ironic.....:rolleyes:

I just got a card in the mail from one of his auctions today. A very affordable, undergraded M116. I could not be happier with the transaction.

Rich

Not piling on but...........
 

Looks very suspicious to me. I for one will not be bidding.

just look at his auctions and the SHADY BIDDERS who seem to only bid with him and NEVER WIN, plus have 100s of retractions....it doesnt take a genius to see whats going on....

Lol
 

Toss up between this forum, CU and Baseball-Fever as to which one has the most entertainment. :D

A bit early for lamination but there was lots of aerodynamic experimentation with Zeenuts. Waxing a card was one form of cheating at Zeenut card flipping [or 'shooting'] to make them easier to manipulate when trying to lean them against a wall or stoop. A kid could also roll a card to put a camber into it for more control. Last but not least, kids also rounded the edges down to get a smoother flight path. I suspect that's what happned to Lefty:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...21%20ODoul.jpg