"i'd rip that pig a new one" :)

priceless. Thanks Clayton.

:D I know I should'nt be making jokes in this thread, but I couldn't help it with the Flav :)

Chris, I do hope you get your card back or at least compensation, and I hope you weren't offended by the YT link.

Sincerely, Clayton

Kevin
 

I sent Kevin a link to this thread. Here is his response:

i want to apologize for any confusion. I am currently out of the country and my auctions are being handled at this time by my son in the states. he has posted a number of cards that have been received at my absence. I am happy to pull the card from listing and will return it to your offices when I return to the USA on february 19th.

i apologize for any confusion and will rectify the issue upon my return.

kevin koffman

#65
Yesterday, 07:15 PM
flavius
member

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 16

. "This is an error on UPS's (or whatever shipping company) part and not whoever issues the registrations."

How is this the shipping companies fault? They delivered it as addressed. Should they have used a crystal ball and figured out the inside contents were meant for someone else? Clearly an honest mistake by the AH.

Richard Lapointe

That's interesting. His son didn't know how much his dad paid for the cards? And if he assumed they actually paid for the Cobb, it would be reasonable to sell it for nearly $200 less? Obviously son is experienced at buying/selling too, and I wish them the best in their family business.

You know, when people commit theft, they articulate to themselves beforehand why they are committing theft. But most importantly, they develop contingency plans in case they're caught.

Using this example, if it would've been theft, the thief may plan to say, "oops, didn't realize that very important and expensive card was mixed in with my other less important cards. Typed it up and scanned it but low and behold I didn't realize..."

He may plan to say, "It wasn't me! My daddy did it!"

He may say, "It's the auction house's fault! I didn't pay for it and didn't want it but they sent it anyway. Finders keepers!"

And again, these things are planned in case the thief gets caught, and if this was just a case of ignorant people:), ignorant of having a Cobb rookie by mistake, country bound or not....if it was a theft, the thief was busted and had to rely on the contingency. So glad it's going to be rectified at Kevin's convenience, and very glad this isn't going to be a theft. But more than anything, I'm glad Chris saw his card listed for sale well below what he paid for it.

So, Rick, while you may be immediately pleased, I see things differently. Too much TV I guess. Thanks for posting. My dissonance has not decreased yet, so forgive my blabbering. And here I was thinking the modern man would rearrange the scenario in order to help another bad guy be a victim. That's it; no more tv!

Sorry that happened to you and your son, Kevin! What country Kevin? Business or vacation? Looking forward to hearing about it. Be safe brother!

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the listing has ended.

Richard,

He was responding to a comment made by someone who thought people have to register as a voter and present such registration in order to vote.

Hi Greg,
 

Hi Greg,
I am not pleased at all. Just posting his response. I do not know Kevin although I do remember purchasing a few items from his ebay store a few years ago when I was putting together a low grade set of 33 Goudeys. I sent him the link through the ebay messaging system and his response was through the ebay messaging system.

My personal feeling is that something is rotten in Denmark. :rolleyes:

Rick

Roger that. Thanks Rick

Flavius
 

Flavius, My daughter recently lost a wallet in a department store that contained over $200.00 in it ,along with her drivers licence and school ID. The person who found it never returned it. My daughter had just gotten her licence 6 months earlier . My son happened to be Home from college for the Chrismas Break and found a Wallet while shopping for gifts at Lord and Taylor. The wallet had over $600.00 IN CASH AND CREDIT CARDS along with the persons ID. When he came home he emmidiately looked up the person and contacted the lady who lost the wallet and returned it with all of the cash.
The person who found my daughters wallet had your idea of what one should do (Finders Keepers) Not thier fault ... My son had my idea of what to do when you find or recieve something that does not belong to you.

Some People jUst Do the right THing while others are Just Sleeze


Thats my 2 cents.
John Perrotta

John,

You have to take a little credit here. Your son was raised with the right values. :)

So true John. Nice parenting on your part. Admittedly I had little parenting as a child, due to very unfortunate circumstances, and made some poor choices growing up. On the other hand I am quite confident my 16 yr old daughter would make the same decision your son did. Kudos to you and he.

Flavius, even thinking like you do shows your true character. You are someone I, and I am sure many others, would just assume not deal with. You don't step over a dime to pick up a penny! You will lose more money by destroying your reputation than the item you got for "free" from that dealer/auction house that was just dying to give you the card they obviously wanted you to have for free when they filled out the shipping address on the envelope when two seconds of investigation would show that the item belongs to someone else. Using the law to try to justify incorrect behavior because it skirts around the law is shortsighted at best.

There is a long-time collector of Zeenut cards out there that I have traded with on several occassions, typically when I have cards he needs he will send me his entire stock of duplicates (usually 100-150 cards) and it is understood that if I am taking any of his I need I then have to replace the ones I take with ones he needs. By your warped sense of morality since he addressed that package to me, dammit, those are now my cards!?! When dealing with other collectors through the mail there is implicit trust involved and you, Flavius, are NOT to be trusted given the apparent way your brain functions.

This hobby is a very small place and once a reputation has been soiled or ruined it is very difficult to get it back. There are examples of people that used to frequent this board that have all but disappeared due to various shady and/or unethical acts, most of us do this for fun and when you deal with losers it isn't fun.

(That being said, it is still possible to make a living in this hobby with a terrible reputation as d-bags are still out there and apparently someone likes them?)

Classic, now the auction house is the one that initiated a "crime" by MAKING A MISTAKE while the one receiving the package did no wrong keeping the item after he MADE THE DECISION to keep ill gotten gains!

stolen card
 

I posted the story about my son returning the wallet becuase I am hoping that the seller of the card sees what doing the right thing is vs making a fast dishonest buck. I hope that he didnt pass hIS behavior down to his son who is listing the items for him while he is supposidly out of the country.. We all make mistakes but the key is to learn from them and pass down the right ways to our kids.Or At Least Try To.

Regards
John P

[I]Reminds me of the Yogi-ism when asked what he'd do if he found a million dollars: "If the guy was poor, I'd give it back." :D

Don't forget the legal precedent set in the landmark Finders v. Keepers case :D

I am currently taking a class on Business Law. Below is a quote from the textbook which I find appropriate here. Please know that I am not throwing daggers at anyone. I am merely weighing in on where I stand regarding the issue of what is ethical versus what a person is legally required to do.

"Ethical behavior is based on more than meeting minimum legal requirements. It invariably involves a higher, moral standard."

When I mistakenly wind up with something that's not mine, and it can realistically be returned to its rightful owner, I will give it back...every time. Whether discovering that the lid from my neighbor's trash can blew over onto my lawn or finding someone's wallet on the ground in a parking lot, I make sure the item finds its way back to where it belongs.

In this particular case, to anyone receiving somebody else's baseball card in the mail, just give it back. It's the right thing to do. Period.

Best Regards,

Eric

Thank you, Jeff; I needed a good laugh.

Ummm, this link might state a little bit about the seller's ethics and whether he knew what he might have been selling:

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/news/...d47c6de33.html

Sad to see a scumbag like Koffman try to ruin one of the few decent shows we have left in Massachusetts. Here's hoping justice is swift and harsh.

Well...this just got a little more interesting. (grabs popcorn)

Wow!

Looks like it happened a while back. Curious how it all turned out. As near a smoking gun as it gets.

chomp, chomp, chomp.... also eating popcorn, waiting for the train wreck...

Scott, are you sure that the ebay seller for the Cobb PC is the same person mentioned in the article for which you provided a link?

If so, that doesn't prove anything.... chomp, chomp, chomp.... :rolleyes:

Seriously, if this is the same person then people will draw their own conclusions about what this could really mean.

Yo Flavius... if that article is about the seller of the Cobb PC then I hope you see what everyone is trying to tell you... better to be honest...

In this case the article doesn't imply he's guilty of this other indiscretion (sale of the Cobb PC) but people may not give him the benefit of the doubt after they read that article...

interesting how people who behave suspectly...tend to choose suspect names?!

99.9999999999999% positive, and I am NOT just going on the name. I have heard in the past from dealers around the Boston area about him and that incident, that as soon as I saw the eBay seller involved in this post, I knew that was his eBay ID and went searching for this old article. I just wish I'd had power after the storm for the past couple of days and could've seen this link two days ago!

Earlier in this thread I compared some of the reactions here to villagers with pitchforks or a lynch mob. I guess I should also point out that sometimes they lynch a guilty man and sometimes the castle does need to be stormed.:D

Why does it take any human being alive longer than the amount of time required to read the original post here to determine that the guy is a scumbag thief?? Has society fallen so far that people are using semantics to try to re-label what this guy did?

Assuming the OP is telling the truth (and from his approach here and the way other posters have treated him, it's pretty obvious the guy has plenty of integrity) then there's no question the ebayer is an excuse-ridden ripoff artist. Someone in his neck of the woods should take a shovel to his face.

And let me explain this to Flavius in a way he might understand, since in one of his multiple stories he was a child during the 60's...

The Professor is working on fixing the radio and stops by the Skipper and Gilligan's hut. While enjoying some coconut milk, he accidentally leaves his Ty Cobb baseball card there and returns to the lagoon. While swinging on his hammock, Gilligan sees it in the corner and grabs it up. Later on, after botching the chance for everyone to be rescued from the island, Gilligan ignores returning the card to the Professor and instead goes and sells the Cobb to Mr. Howell for a nice haul.

Tell me, in what f_cking world is Gilligan not a thief?????????

/

Can he leave the country with a criminal record?

It's from the UK but another WOW.
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/sil...223331519.html

This would be a theft case for sure. I feel like a jerk saying this but: trust me I am a prosecutor.

Amen to this. Great post Eric.

The basic concept of theft (Florida) is this: (1) you took something that wasn't yours (2) you did so with the intent to deprive the true owner of his use of the item.

(1) The card didn't belong to the seller and he knew it.
(2) Selling the card deprives the true owner of its use.

Legal reasoning aside selling something that doesn't belong to you is just wrong.

just curious ...... Why would you feel like a jerk?

I hate whenever people flaunt things. It seems a bit arrogant. However in this particular instance I thought it was warranted.

Only difference is it was that own women's doing that cost her $40K. If I was the guy that she sent the money to for two years, I'd gladly send it all back in one big package, with a brochure to a nearby hospital for the mentally retarded.

All jokes aside, I think it's pretty clear to everyone that the smart thing to do would have been to send the card back to the intended recipient immediately. Waiting for there to be a big stink about it doesn't really change anything, except for the legal aspect. In fact, I'd consider the moves kevino35 made to be even sleazier than just not returning the card and effectively stealing it. At least in that case he wouldn't be claiming to have done nothing wrong.

In regards to "flavius," I slightly agree with a few bits and pieces of his statements. While an incident like this will certainly hurt his reputation (though reputation can be a bit overrated - what percent of people in the hobby will actually read this entire thread and remember it next time they deal with him? 10%?), legally I've seen very little evidence to prove that this seller really knew he was selling someone else's property. The guy does a lot of business, clearly - who's to say he didn't just figure he won the Cobb?

I'm really not surprised, though. Actually, I'd almost consider it normal for most of the population to go the route Kevin did. Luckily, this hobby is a little more tight-knit than the general population and people like Kevin are rarer in prewar cards than postwar, memorabilia, and nonsports.

As always, the best test of a man's character is when nobody (or very few people) are watching.

Delete

Do we really need a corrupt legal system to decide our morality? I just want to say that I hope it works out I have bought several items from Chris and all have been top notch.

Give it back
 

Give Chris his card back damn it !!! (seriously). Do the right thing.
This should be a no-brainer.
It's his card, give it back to him.

Sincerely, Clayton

Stolen card returned
 

I wanted to let everyone know I received my card today from Ebay seller kevino35. Thank you for everyones help in this matter. Happy V day.

Chris :)

When Clayton talks, people listen.;)

another festivus miracle!

Or is that another flavius miracle? ;)

Chris, glad to see the matter has been resolved.

Glad to hear it

Ha ha, yeah right Frank :D I wish it were that easy :p

High-five to kevino35 for doing the right thing & congrats Chris, I'm glad you got your card back :)

Sincerely, Clayton