Question for all the new members: What's your favorite background color on a T206?

I will need your social security number and credit card numbers to verify you are who you say you are.

Sure....what happened on Ebay with all those silver proof coins?

added info: On 2nd thought, I am gonna bail you out here. You don't have to answer that. The 5th amendment protects you from that. All I am going to say to you, is how dare you chunk rocks at me for my "sins", if you can even call them that, when you have wayyyyyyyyyyyy more glass windows in your house than I do. I have explained my actions. You don't have to say anything else to me. But I am like a boy scout compared to you!

I am going to take Sean's advice now and let this thread die. Everyone take care.

Just in from the department of redundancy department . . . This is like deja vu all over again!

The Cliff-notes version will soon be available as an iBook download. Please check back after Page 12.

As per Net54 rules, my name in Ni.ck Mu.nafo

Here's a old thread I started on CU to show some of bobby's "high moral character"

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=788421

Perhaps A new message board Should be created for all of these PSA refugees?

Is this the January pick up thread?

It's one thread, I don't think a new board is needed for one thread. I hope we convert some of them to Pre-WWII but most of their talk is poppage and ripping packs, which is fine, but not really our main game. I already see it dying down and there are some really good conversations going on, on the front page. Can you tell I am beating my drum?

http://luckeycards.com/pt206drum.jpg

Nick
 

Now I know why you always come out "smelling" like a Burberry rose. Interesting

I have already responded about the Mays, Nick. I think you need to reread this whole thread. You are arriving a little late to the party. Nothing new to see here boys.

Bobby
 

Bobby that comment was directed towards Nam. Google search will explain it.

This Hobby Is Supposed to be FUN
 

This is my first post on these boards, I have been a member of the CU forums for many years and a collector of high end vintage. I have read the Net54 forums for a # of years, observing only...some of the posts are informative and in the true spirit of educating and sharing...others, such as this one bashing PSA, just serve to undermine the very hobby we all theoretically find so special.

I am a realist and not a sentimentalist, and good debate is valuable, I didnt even mind when people were questioning if I overpaid for the 55 Clemente 10, maybe I did and maybe I didnt, only time will tell. But most collectors, regardless of what they collect, wouldnt buy something if that something didnt have higher utility for them than the money/opportunity cost. And I think it's worth contemplating that and trying to be respectful of it.

PSA is the standard and clear market share leader in what they do. They are human and therefore mistakes can and will be made, but that does not mean that there is willful deceit or malice, I think David Hall, Joe, etc have always tried to do the right thing. Food companies have recalls, Tylenol had a big recall/scandal many years ago that has become an HBS case study in how to deal with crisis, and the bottom line is that while no entity is perfect, the way such entity handles tough issues or mistakes, admitting them, taking responsibility, offering to indemnify people, etc. is what determines longevity and whether any brand, including PSA, has enduring value.

I've really enjoyed the commradery of the CU boards and hope that Net54 will also continue to evolve into a forum for constructive dialogue about the hobby.

EOMINT

Net54 already is a constructive forum about the hobby. Not
everyone is cut out to be a cheerleader. Welcome to posting.

Just wow..."and hope that Net54 will also continue to evolve into a forum for constructive dialogue about the hobby"

This is great on many levels! Well fielded Scott

I am the originator of the thread. The thread was never made to bash PSA. The thread was talking about the steady decline of theme and character of the PSA boards, to the point that the board now needs "chaperones" to get rid of the wild west mentality that has long prevailed on the boards, because some members refuse to act like adults. I'm sorry if you misconstrued it as a bashing of PSA. I don't bash PSA. I like PSA. Sure, they make mistakes like the rest of us. I don't have anything against them though. At least if I know I am sending them something, I am going to get it back (wink wink @ GAI).

Bobby, your phone is ringing.

For Eomint:

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...8-640x1024.jpg

Sorry to chime in so late on this one. But the PSA boards are fluff. Just another marketing tool for the company. If PSA is policing and poofing any thread or comment that sheds any sort of negative light on them, then the forum is not being allowed to be fully productive..

Ideally, it would be nice if our hobby was limited to sharing our pickups and digital pats on the back, or talking about pop numbers or registry rankings..But let's face it, this hobby is MUCH, MUCH more than that.. And the negative comes with the positive.

That's one of the best things about a board like this one. Absolute freedom. Well, as long as you post your name. We can tackle the good and the bad. And openly discuss and debate any matter, no matter how insignificant or controversial it may seem to some. You just don't get that when the hosting corporation is also the main topic of discussion.. The PSA boards have grown to the point of irrelevancy(would it be too far to say that they were irrelevant from their inception), because anything worth its weight that has been discussed over there, has or can or will be discussed over here openly and honestly, without the policing.

I am NOT trying to pick on PSA with this. Only the merit and character of the forum and the relation to it's hosts. It's just an observation about the nature of discussions about a company being held in a forum run by the same company.. The same would apply to just about any company.

:D That's a beautiful Drum you are beating there Leon.

Sincerely, Clayton

Wagner
 

I am highly confident that if Ken Kendrick wanted PSA to take back the card that they would if the Mastro allegations are proven to be true beyond a reasonable doubt. PSA stands behind its product. It is my understanding that Ken likes the story and mystique around "The Card" though and has no intention of unloading it. He has a wonderful collection and the Wagner, while a trophy card, is an insignificant % of his net worth.

There is a reason that Merkel, Branca, Spence, Ireland, and other great collectors are either pure PSA guys or predominantly so. And Fogel is exclusively a PSA guy, never have seen any of his cards in other holders.

In any event, it is not my job to defend PSA, but I do believe that over time rare, vintage, and iconic PSA graded cards, especially at the top of the condition scale, will continue to be in high demand.

BTW, if anybody can locate any of the following cards for me in PSA 9 it would be much appreciated, not an easy wantlist:

1948 Leaf Musial
1948 Leaf J Robinson
1951 Bowman Ford
1951 Bowman Mays
1951 Bowman Mantle
1952 Topps Matthews
1954 Bowman Williams
1955 Topps Snider

EOMINT

Why did you bring this up on these boards and NOT post it on the PSA boards? It seems to me you would find a whole lot of people over there that would actually care about this subject. I swear sometimes you just cannot see the forest for the trees!

EOMINT- As you well know all of your opinions are fine and dandy. You are very close to needing to put your full name out here though. Reason being, how do we know you don't work for PSA? I like PSA and have nothing against them at all. It could be any company or person, same rules for everyone.
Personally, I think SGC and BVG grade vintage better but that is just my biased and experienced opinion. Everyone has one. Just be careful in what you say if you don't want to put your name out here. Also, some anonymous POS tattled on you right before your last post... I can't stand anonymity so would almost do the opposite of what someone tells me to do, if they are anonymous. But with your last post I felt the need to let you know. No worries, just be careful and welcome to the forum.

I will refrain from any further posts
 

I'm not even sure what tattleling means in this context, but I am an independent collector with no affiliation to any grading company whatsoever. But this will be my final post. Thank you Leon for admitting me to this forum, I just dont think it's for me. Happy collecting to everyone!

Eomint's pretty well known on the PSA boards, btw, especially for having an incredibly nice collection. I'm almost positive he doesn't work for PSA. He still may need to put his full name, however, for any controversial posts if Leon decides, of course.

They told me that you need to have your full name in your posts. They were anonymous so I could care less.
Independent collector, President of the US, grader, manager at a TPG, person that stumbled on our board....it's all the same for the rules. And as I said earlier, I am sure this influx of new visitors will thin out over time. A lot of people don't want to have their name in the public domain so this forum isn't best for them. Also, we are mainly a vintage forum and most collectors don't collect vintage. But our goal is for everyone to!! :) Good luck in your endeavors EOMINT. Don't be shy about posting but remember if you give opinions of a person or company your name needs to be in your post. thanks again

Bobby is also a PSA collector, or was.

There is no such thing as a 'great' collector. We all end up in the same place, just some get mahogany and some get pine.

I would have given this a +1, but I'm offended because people like me, with a particle board collection, weren't included. :D

What is a great collector? In the context used it seems to also
mean great customer.

+1 very well said, Scott.

We do not own cards or anything else in life. We're simply borrowing it for a short time. One day, someone else will have our "stuff." We will all leave this life with exactly what we brought into it.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

BTW, those collectors you listed aren't even that great. Some of the most mind boggling amazing collections out there are pretty private.

-Matt Hall

Edit: I mean no disrespect to any of the names on your list.

I also don't mean any disrespect toward flip collecting.

Sometime's it's hard to beat the classics.

We do need to thank eomint for planting the seed of "greatness" in our minds. I always feel vaguely discomfortable when someone expresses petty jealousy over one of the deep-pockets guy's posting of a very expensive auction win. But I feel similar discomfort when someone else tells them what a "great job" they did buying something that simply took a nice bank account. Admittedly, there are a few guys on this board that WILL win certain items, and some of us don't bother bidding against them. On the other hand, the fact that we know which items they will bid on, implies that they are selective and minimally have good taste.

So what is greatness in a hobby? There is no such thing. If we are going to judge someone as a hobbyist (which we probably should not), it should be for their contributions. Their collections are merely things that will some day be broken up and disbursed to younger people in the hobby, who may or may not be all that "great". Of course, I state the above as someone who, if judged for his collection, would be an insect, or at best, a small mammal.

Who was that member that used to brag about having like, a million PSA 8s? He almost never mentioned anything about the actual cards, just that they were PSA 8s... Anyway, I can't remember his name but I think it is he who is the greatest collector.

funny how much value can be placed upon a card that is entombed in plastic with a flip on it reading "Mint" yet when that SAME card is removed from the plastic, its value changes

isn't it the same card?

if you have a set graded "MINT" by a TPG, then remove the cards from their plastic holders, aren't they the SAME CARDS? Its like some people don't believe a card is a card unless its covered plastic with his/her favorite TPG stamp on it.

Didn't we all grow up collecting cardboard? Whats happened to that? Isn't it still cardboard?

I feel like posting that as a sticky, Scott. Very well said!!

My saying, that I stole from someone but I don't remember who, is-

When we are on our deathbed it won't matter what we have (materially), it will matter more what we have done.



I will be here till Thursday please tip the bartender on the way out.

.

A man's tombstone typically has the year he was born and the year he dies, with a dash in the middle. A question worth thinking about... what did you do (or are you doing) with your dash?

Certainly cardboard is our commond bond, but I find some of the relationships I've gained on various boards to be worth far more than the cardboard that brought us together.

'Course, the opposite also applies. I'm certainly sorry the common bond of cardboard brought certain people into my life. I could have definitely done without "meeting" them. On the flip, I'm certain the same could be said of me. It all depends on the perspective of the individual.

If PSA were to grade me I'd probably come back a 4(O/C)

Tell that to Dan McKee.

"Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo"

God, I admire you. (Mr. Poon, a.k.a Irwin Fletcher)

You just liked hearing me describe myself as an insect :)

Thanks.

I can not believe this thread is still going.

Here is the jist of what I've learned from this thread.
Dont waste your time reading it. It has nothing to do with anything.

We are all just moons circling the respective planets in the hobby. Fault comes when some think that they are the sun... Sadly, they usually end up a supernova.

wow
 

Just like BBG, that is deep

EDIT TO ADD: Bill Holler

Must be a lot of 1980-90's cards Must have submitted them in bulk with a few vintage 50-70 to get the perk +1-2 grade bump that PSA gives on cards. :eek:

What was the essence of this thread? Oh yeah, shaddy selling practices.

I'm your huckleberry......

Must be headed back to where the "great" collectors hang out.

http://landark.tripod.com/python/uppercla.jpg

Are those PSA GPA's !?! Then I guess I'm wrong :(

http://www.id-wall.com/images/large/...ts-MPFC-90.jpg

Eomint came on and seemed to be very polite and measured in expressing his opinions. Others are free to disagree, but does it have to be mean and childish?
JimB

Jim,
Don't disagree totally but when you are here for 2 days and 2 posts and express your hope that the board would evolve into constructive dialogue about the hobby and you make note of "great" collectors I think you might open yourself up for some good natured ribbing.

JeffD

You're probably right Jim, but his "last post" seemed a bit condescending in my overly sensitive mind.

I am a member of the CU boards and read them most days. The amount of actual info there vs here is not in the same league, imo. I would politely have to disagree with EOMINT on that. I think EOMINT is probably a real nice guy and didn't mean anything too negative by his comments. (see me taking the high road)

No, he was condescending, just as you are being. I understand the appeal, but for that you get....

http://ak5.picdn.net/shutterstock/vi...-out-among.jpg

I dont think I can agree with you more Leon. There was a time the CU boards had some great people over there with unbelieveable hobby knowledge but it seems the boards over there have degenerated into a place that is just a step above the Blowout boards and many times they are right there in the gutter with them.

I am still a member there and will post on occasion as there are some decent people I respect and like and can appreciate their knowledge but it has certainly become less "fun" to hang out there.

I think the problem that EOMINT is running into regarding this board, is threads like this one. I think he just came on board at the wrong time, and possibly for the wrong reasons. Most other boards tend to make threads like this go away, and it's understandable, because these types of topics can get very heated, and tend to turn people off and/or piss them off. I will admit that sometimes they get out of hand, but that's ultimately besides the point.

Wanting to avoid it is fine and dandy, however neglecting to acknowledge that threads like this are sometimes necessary in the hobby isn't. These type of threads often result in more good in the overall scheme of things, than they do bad. Sure they may make someone look bad, but then again, if that person or company didn't do something worth pointing out, then the whole thing would be unnecessary..

The fact that these type of things needed to be pointed out is the "bad" thing, NOT pointing them out and/or discussing them..

The problem here is that the TPAs have worked themselves into a position where they are somewhat large part of this hobby, and some people fear that tearing them down for their faults is bad for the hobby. The value of many collections out there are pretty much based on the legitimacy of the TPGs. And tearing them down WILL hurt a lot of collectors and/or general interest in the hobby. Maybe short-term this could be a bad thing. But long term, straightening out these issues is best for all involved.

I think eomint is intelligent enough to realize that these anti-PSA threads were started by disgruntled PSA'ers who were run off the PSA forum. Those people (like Bobby) are only here to complain about PSA - not to contribute to vintage card discussions. You'll also notice that these anti-PSA threads have brought quite a few <50 posters out of the woodwork who I bet are also, for the most part, disgruntled PSA'ers who have very little interest in vintage cards.

In essence, these threads are not vintage card collectors discussing PSA-encapsulated vintage cards and bashing them. We used to have a lot of that - now, not so much. It wasn't fun, so we stopped.

Most of the stuff posted since eomint announced his leaving (with a minor parting shot at this board) has been joking around, not PSA-bashing. I really don't see what the big deal is.

You're probably right and the ribbing again from my POV was pretty good natured. I think Scott hit an important nail on the head, there is a fear in some quarters about people continuing to point out the seeming shortcomings of TPG. Particularly among people who have collected numbers in addition to cards. I meant no ill will, I just thought he took a back handed shot at this board. Also I will agree, I used to frequent the CU boards for awhile, not much there for me and the amount of actual info there is (IMO) significantly less than here.

Edit to add: I am not entirely disinterested either as I have several hundred slabbed cards.

The secret of 54???

SHHHHHH!!!! (Frank will kill me for giving away the answer!)

Take off your shoes, Scott.

My hearing isn't all that good.

Feel free to share your secret on the other thread.

Just to Clarify
 

I do appreciate the need for an independent site such as this and that a forum exists for folks to share their views uncensored as long as they are not libelous of course.

In terms of my citing "great collectors" i probably should have worded it more carefully as there seems to be same 99%/1% divide on this board that is dividing the entire country. What I meant to say is that many of those who have arguably some of the rarest and most valuable stuff have entrusted their collection to PSA. That is a fact, not an opinion. That does not diminish in any way, however, the fact that there are a ton of of other passionate collectors out there who are great people.

I think it's pretty obvious that we all eventually die and cant take our cards with us and that material things are not the measure of an individual.

Love the debate, love free speech, dont love the feeling of hostility some (not all) convey.

Thanks,

EOMINT

Cards
 

I am currently debating whether or not to take my cards along with me.

I think you need to look further than the PSA registry leader boards before you decide where the 1% is.

It's not really a debate. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
The people at the top of those "leader boards" are really just people that want to be hobby celebrities. They don't have the best stuff out there, that's a fact.

I personally don't hate people who have positioned themselves, in life, where the can amass spectacular collections. I feel lucky to know some people like that, and by knowing whats out there, I simply can't force myself to consider a bunch of "#1 Topps sets", or the "#1 T206 set" anything to call great. I know I sound like an ass, but I'm pretty sure buying high grade topps cards is a waste of money. People are paying wayyyy too high a premium for someones opinion on a card.

Matt Hall

PSA does rule especially with resale value, no contest. T206 values are not even close between PSA and SGC. While I have alot graded by both companies, the values are not even close. Not trying to stick up for our newest member (eomint), but he is spot on pertaining PSA....

What I meant to say is that many of those who have arguably some of the rarest and most valuable stuff have entrusted their collection to PSA. That is a fact, not an opinion


like your 55 Clemente 10?

Another thing pertaining T206s, PSA is much stricter on grading than SGC. I have many SGC 84's and 86's that would never even cross to PSA 6 or 6.5's....Sorry, but it is what it is......

I have no dog in this debate but I think that the notion that the majority of high value and rare collections reside in anyone's plastic cases is pretty myopic.
Also not sure what the 99% and 1% divide is.

There are some astounding collections in SGC holders and some that are not in any holders at all. Based on those collectors whose names you mentioned, I suspect by "rare" you are referring to PSA population figures for high grade (9s and 10s) cards. Others might define rare in a different manner.

Nevermind

+1

If the light is just right, and you squint hard enough, this thread somewhat resembles Han Solo.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to bash anyone with my last post. Especially not PSA(although, I will admit that I don't necessarily agree with the poofing). I actually have plenty of respect for PSA, BGS and SGC. But they all have their flaws, and there shouldn't be anything wrong with pointing out those flaws.

Now, I believe there are some ill-intentions towards PSA being thrown around, but at the core of those ill-intentions there are still a few nuggets worthy of legitimate concern. Some choose to lash out, others choose to more calmly shed some light on the matter. It would be nice to not have to dig through intentions to find the truth, but it doesn't mean that we should ignore them alltogether.

Seriously, out of everything that's gone on PSA-wise in the past few weeks on the board, I think there are probably a few very legitimate concerns. And I will admit that with some digging, a few interesting things have been brought over. Like the P-P submission info with all the 10's.

As far as the newbies here, who seem to have only come here to vent. I think we need to look at that in perspective as well. We're being dropped right in the middle, without too much knowledge of how all of this may have been handled to begin with.. It's obvious that we're getting is the boil over, which may be a good thing. Because I've got to believe that it takes a person who is very passionate and serious about the hobby to let it get to that point. So a bit of harshness and short-sightedness should be expected at this point.. I expect all the newbies to eventually settle down, and let their passion lead to them becoming legitimate contributors to this board. And if we've gotta deal with a little mayhem in the meantime, it may be worth waiting it out.

It's really impossible to argue with such a statement. What I mean is that it's arguably difficult for many of us to disagree with some of it.

I look at the PSA refugees as I would taking in a stray dog: It may not have very good manners nor understanding of what's going on, but with a little training can be a valued member of the household. Or continue to poop wherever it pleases. One will get "attaboys", the other a trip to the "farm".

Jim Ma.rinari

That's a good analogy.

Scott <=== off to find a burlap sack and some rocks

Boards
 

This board, that board, any board, share what you know, appreciate what others contribute and do not take yourself so darn seriously...and welcome and appreciate newcomers