Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

1. A seller knows when there is a bid retraction. 40+ from the same bidder in a short period of time would send off red flags, no matter how big your operation is.

2. Is a consignor winning their own lots? Is the seller having to relist items because the consignor won the lot the first it was offered? That would not go by undetected either.

Either situation is artificial manipulation by one or more parties and the seller is an accomplice at best. I would just like to have these concerns addressed so that we can be reassured that this is not the case with Probstein auctions.

Thanks.

Chris

At this point, I would definitely not consign with Probstein if I was in the market to do so. His responses seem to me to be dodging the issue and faking concern.

Sean, what do you propose he do about intentional fraud being perpetrated within his business? Nothing?!?

No way to run a business, imho.

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

Actually I think morality, good of the hobby, accurate valuations and concern for future buyers are all very important. Karma is a mo-fo too ......

I realize and agree with the general sentiment though....

I'm guessing there are some guys on this board that Probstein would love to have as customers that are becoming convinced that he's not the right guy to do business with.

bidder is "myboydannyroy67"
 

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304

It's okay guys, Rick did his research...move along.

SEE this is the problem here. Everyone is too willing to cut this guy a break EVERYTIME someone notices something fishy about his auctions. Just stop biding on them and he will dry up and blow away , or go back to working a real job. The more excuse you collectors make for dishonest dealers , the more they think they can get awau with. They know a certain segment of collectors will bid on their stuff whether there is shill biding going on or not. If you guys bid on Probsteins stuff ...more power to ya ! he and others like him will linger and sour this hobby for any newcomers.

:D

9,999 a month....

I personally will never bid on anything he sells again. Mainly because he seems unapologetic and has not once addressed the big picture.

I does make one think twice before bidding on his auctions. I have purchased from him in the past but I cant help but wonder if I was shilled in some way. Sadly, this makes many bidders questions the practices that are in place in his auctions, regardless if Rick is involved with the bidding issues or not. I do find it hard to believe that he is shilling these auctions himself but I think it is too easy for the consigners to push the auctions prices with no checks put in place to prevent this practice.

An unethical auctioneer has none. No surprise that ebay has changed their software over the years to make fraud discovery more difficult, as such fraud increases their profits as well.

real proof
 

how am the only person who is understanding this concept?:

everything is ok? we looked, we are not in on it, neither is anyone else. trust me when i tell you nothing is wrong.

are you serious? let me continue this: his name was bob jumbolaya. he sounded like he was 29 years old-ish when we spoke on the phone and he typed with a overseas z to s replacement even though he was from the greater mississippi area. do you believe me now that i have told you all of this? of course not. you could be a compulsive liar for all we know.

when someone questions your level of trust with evidence you need to refute with evidence.

you are fighting a trust and evidence issue with only a rquest to trust? that is a falacy. i feel bad enough for anyone who believes what you just said without evidence that you are in fact 1) telliing the truth and 2) you did the diligence people are assuming you did.

add real proof. take a screen shot. trust someone on here to examine the evidence and testify you are giving accurate statements.

kevin

Sorry for not being clear, I meant to give suggestions rather than a solution. I believe it is up to Rick to come up with a solution because ultimately he is responsible, but if anyone has any insight that they think would be helpful it would be nice to have it.

Edit: As a comparison to the steroids ordeal I would use "fan feedback" - everyone will have their opinions and I believe most would be willing to give it. I am not saying he will even use them but there might be an "ah-ha" moment on one of them.

mathewson psa 6
 

hi,

here is another auction that is sure to go for high dollar amount. i started scanning some of the bidders.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370744120138...84.m1423.l2649

check it out and let me know what you think.

kevin

Always trying to beat down the successful. If you would all follow the attached, you could be successful yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYX65R4sXI

Sounds like you have an invested interest. Why else would you condone this type of activity?

lol Nice 1 feedback bidder with 51% with this seller and putting out 97 bids the last 30 days, year right.......

They are not even shilling like a professional. They don't even have a bid retraction yet:)

a new one
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T205-Gold-Bo...item53f4ec1fe7


Bidding Details
Bidder Information
Bidder: n***y( 628)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: T205 Gold Border Kirby Kirb White Pittsburgh Pirates PSA 6 EX-MT
Bids on this item: 1
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 444
Items bid on: 414
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 46%
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 104

kevin quinn

How I handle 'odd' bidding patterns that might appear to be shilling to other potential bidders:

I had a pool cue I was selling jump from $86 to $156 last week, which I thought was curious (yes, as a seller I monitor the bidding on my items - imagine that! :eek:).

I checked the bidding history and a 0-feedback bidder had bid a tiny bit at a time, repeatedly, until he just edged out the former leader.

I retracted all of his bids, blocked his i.d. and sent him a pleasant message telling him that I didn't mind his bidding, but it looked a little odd and I wanted an explanation. If he could give me one, I would reinstate him and would love to see him bidding.
I then sent a message to the new leading bidder, apologizing for what might have been okay bidding, but assuring him that I monitor such things closely and everything in my auctions is legitimate.

Obviously I know the guy wasn't a shill bidder, since it's my own auction. My suspicions when these things happen, is that it could be someone I've had a run-in with on a discussion board - yep, there are some who will NEVER let anything go, and revenge, even on the internet over a discussion, is as good as their life gets. But even if it's just a new bidder who hasn't a clue how to behave on ebay, it still looks bad to other bidders, so I have to take some sort of action. If the bidder explains themselves, then I reinstate them and we go on our merry way (it's happened :)).

But this guy explained himself just as I expected him to. It was a past bidder who had been such a pita that I had blocked his other i.d. If someone really wants a bite out of you, they will find a way to get it.

Same auction:


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1482
Items bid on: 1006
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 20%
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 41

dizzying
 

the recent drama had me thinking...and i searched some old threads...

my head is spinning! seems like once a month there is a thread about Probstien and his alleged schilling...its thread after thread...

why is this guy always involved in some alleged wrongful activity...

why is it the "biggest" sellers always seem to have the most potential issues:mad:

now his association with JOE....i thought he was not gonna do business with this guy Joe anymore.....

mr Probstien, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE?