Can you tell that it is an AZO postcard without being able to see the stamp box?

Yes...I'm 100% certain it's AZO

Here is a random AZO from my collection.

Thanks Dan - really appreciate it.

What about the fact that the sepia postcard, although postmarked 1918, has an undivided back? Does that say anything about its vintage? Or were those still being made long after the advent of the divided backs in 1907?

That is actually a divided back - it just does not have a line to separate the two areas. Whenever you see a section labled "correspondence" you can be sure that it is a divided back. Before 1907, the only thing that could be on that side of the postcard was the recipient's address.

Good catch on the AZO back, the front really threw me off as that's one of the poorest photo quality rppc's that I have ever seen.

You can find AZO's with and without a dividing line...most have the line, but it's not uncommon to find it without...and really lots of the different real photo postcard types have no dividing line at all.

Jeff,

I completely agree. This card simply does not present as crisply as any of the RPPC's I have seen, either.

Best Regards,

Eric

Yep..that's why I think someone took a photo of a photo to make the card. I would say with certainty it is not a commercially made postcard.

I stand corrected...
 

As it pertains to the sepia toned version of the WaJo, I am willing to admit the evidence seems overwhelming that it is printed on Azo paper.

I would still like to see a sharper image of that card; however, tip my hat to those who know more than I and applaud their findings.

The, "photograph of a photograph" theory currently makes more sense to me than any other idea floated here thus far, especially considering the truncated wording along the bottom of the image. If this is indeed the case, it brings up an interesting question. Would that issue simply be a reprint? Granted, quite an old reprint, but a reprint nonetheless...interesting to ponder.

One last thought...does anyone know of Azo paper being used for non photo postcards? I do not; however, I am only a collector and not an expert.

I offer my sincere thanks to everyone here for the discussion. I truly appreciate hearing everyone's point of view and learning along the way.

Respectfully,

Eric

This is a good point, I guess it would be possible for someone to ink print on photo paper, maybe to help give the illusion of a photograph. I really wish a board member owned the Sepia card so we could know for sure. I mean, it REALLY looks printed to me.

I once owned a RPPC that was a photo of a photo and it didn't look grainy like the Wajo does. More blur, but no grain.

from metropostcard.com...

Some publishers printed cards with ink to closely resemble real photo postcards. They usually have a glossy surface that reflects light off the darkly printed areas in a similar manner to the silver deposits on a photograph. Other cards were sometimes printed matte but on a textured paper to look similar to salted photos. A rough paper surface can hide tell tale characteristics of printing ink. These cards were not created to deceive the buyer, for on close examination the differences were often easy to see, but meant to entice those interested in photo cards to find these appealing as well.

H.H. Stratton - These cards were produced with a real photo back but the image is printed with an obvious halftone screen.

I buy and sell thousands of postcards per year (not baseball)...there are commercially produced real photo postcards..mostly European. I have never once seen a printed postcard with an AZO back. There are photos of photos, photos of paintings, and just about any other thing you can think of printed on real photo paper.

Here is a recent example of a Titanic real photo postcard I sold that was just a photo of a painting...I got 5 of these in a recent estate auction so they were most likely made for commercial purposes, but almost surely were made by a photographer to make a few bucks on the disaster.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370715700734...84.m1559.l2649

Dan,

Thank you very much for providing this information and sharing your expertise...both are greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Eric

I don't have anything to add really other than to say I too have been dealing with postcards for years and have never seen AZO back non-photo postcards either.

Me neither, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. I'm not saying it is printed (can't tell for sure w/o seeing a close up of it), it's just that I've never seen a rppc with so much grain.

Well, it looks like a very touched up photo or an artist's rendition of the "Weiser Wonder", that's why it looks grainy, but I'd bet it's for sure a real photo postcard.

So, who won the "white border" Weiser variation postcard on eBay yesterday?? I was hoping to sneak in w/ a $1,250 bid, but I got creamed!

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=80753014833

Not me but I was about the 3rd underbidder at $1800ish.....It wasn't a steal. Neat postcard.

I didn't think it was a steal either. For the record, the card has no postmark but it Was sold by a seller who was selling other postcards from Idaho; including some scenes from Weiser.

Stamp box makes it 1910 or later.

very pretty p.c enjoy leon:)

It is not listed as this
 

But I could have sworn I entered this postcard back in the day into the Beckett Data Base

Rich

White border looks like one that sold a few years ago w/ 1918 postmark for $2,400. I would say it's c1915-1920...and I bet the seller was floored! I would have been happy wih it at the $1200+ range, not $2k+ range...but you certainly don't see these very often!!

Perhaps a member purchased this card and we can put the "photo of photo" vs. RPPC debate to rest w/ up-close scan!

The Shocker is the Price Now That We Know Date of Issuance
 

Yesterday's card was sold by a seller with other Weiser and Idaho postcards that were postmarked 1920 and 1921 and were identical in style of front and back (white border real photo cards with same photo paper).

The real shocker here is the price for a card that was issued late in Johnson's career and is a low quality reproduction of the image on the original postcard which likely was issued c.1909-1911. When these real photo copy cards first hit the market in a couple of auctions, they were stand-alone lots. Here, this one was auctioned alongside others that depicted scenes and/or postmarks indicating a c. 1920 issue date.

So...while it is a really scarce postcard, it is, in essence, an early reprint of a card of a HOFer in a town team uniform!

What does this mean for the price of a Barr-Farnham Walter Johnson postcard, which was issued in 1909 as part of the set depicting individual Washington major league players on each card? And no I don't own one -- wish I did!

Here are what the Barr-Farnham cards look like:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/ItemImag...Lot23d_lg.jpeg

http://www.goodwinandco.com/ItemImag...12528a_lg.jpeg


Robert S

I agree with everything you said, Robert. In my experience, that stampbox, while possible to have 1910 is "usually" a 1918 or later piece. I can tell you that everytime I have come across that stampbox it is on something later than 1918. I know Playle's has it as 1910-1930 but that isn't my experience or the experience of many other PC collectors. So even without the other PCs that it sold with, I would peg it to 1920s anyway.

I also think that the buyer might have gotten a little excited just by the subject matter and not looked deeper into the card itself. I think this is a photo of the Cabinet photo and not of the other postcard. The Cabinet photo which sold in Legendary 2006 is also sepia and you can see where this PC was cropped in from that image.

I too agree 100% with you Rob. I was interested, did my research (thanks to our wonderful forum) and decided I'd save my money towards 'the older' version of this card - should it ever come up again. Still a cool, rare card.

Now those Barr-Farnham cards. Whoa. Thanks for posting - I never heard of them and I love them. -peter

Woah Indeed.:eek:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...ventoryid=9089

The seller has already left feedback for the buyer. For those inquiring minds :)

I would also agree with the post-1918 production date. There was an earlier version of an AZO rppc that ended in 1918 so that would be a logical starting point for this one.

I Agree
 

I agree with you, Jason, on the photo -- probably the cabinet.

And I also agree with you, Phil. These Johnson cards were clearly kept in print for many, many years in different iterations.

By the way, the Barr-Farnham cards were also issued in presentation albums, like the Goodwin link you posted, Jake. The interesting thing is that the ones in the albums all may not have been postcards, but real photos without the postcard back.

I have one that was actually a page from the album that was given to Jim Delehanty and it doesn't have the postcard paper backing. The stand-alone cards, of course, have been seen only with the real photo postcard paper backs.

Here's the Delahanty one:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Ite...153800_lg.jpeg

The Barr-Farnham company also issued a 1909 postcard of the Baltimore Orioles. Here's the image from the Library of Congress:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/pp...000/19076r.jpg

Just curious...is this a reprint? Specifically, was it a RPPC of the original? If so, what would that do to the value?

Best,

Eric

Good Question
 

Good question. It's definitely not a reprint in the classic sense of the term, in that it isn't an exact replica of the earlier card. It just uses the same image as the original PC and cabinet, and all evidence seems to it being issued much, much later.

It's worth what someone will pay for it. And in this case at least two bidders really wanted it. Of course, the question is did they get all amped up because of subject matter; or because of the original postcard showing the same image; or even because of the prices this card has realized before when sold in big auctions without the other Idaho postcards readily reviewable by clicking "see other items" form the same seller.

Here's an example of an early real photo postcard reproducing a famous photograph from the 1880s. What's it worth? Who knows? But if the purchaser of yesterday's Walter Johnson is interested, it will happily be available :) :

http://www.vintageball.com/files/1800s_Browns_web.jpg

A Robert S. sighting! This makes me happy.

Bumping one of my favorite threads...

Another chance to grab a sepia one (is this the same one that sold on ebay?)...

Many mistakes/assumptions made in the description but what really baffles me is the PSA label. Did they really make the same date mistake again? Walter Johnson's postcard? Did he own this one too?

http://goodwinandco.com/Extremely-Ra...-LOT27844.aspx

Yes, that is the same one that was on ebay. I remember the writing on the back.

This did not belong to Johnson, and if that's what they intend by "Walter Johnson's Postcard," it's another of the many mistakes in the slabbing and hyperventilated description of this card.

I know next to nothing about dating PCs, however, per this source http://www.playle.com/realphoto/photoall.php the style of the AZO stamp box on the back dates the Weiser Wonder WaJo PC in Goodwin's current auction to the years 1910 - 1930.
Val

Agreed Val, all the evidence strongly suggests that this is a post-1910 card...

The stamp box w/ divided back, the post-WW1 style borders, the graininess and cropping of the original photo, the other example found with a 1918 cancellation date, etc.

Big price already, hope the winner has done his homework and is not relying on the auction description (which maybe applies to the Blue version, not this one).

They were proud of the Weiser Wonder and printed that for a long time most likely. Wonder there aren't more out there. Whatever the case may be I love the postcard.

Tom C

Weiser Wonder
 

Jeff...your thread bump inspired me to post this one.

Any provenance to go with this one? The hills are similar to those in that part of the country, but the games were a bigger deal than this scene suggests, and I think the ballparks all had stands and probably fences, too.

Those look like Model T's in the background and if they are then Walter Johnson could not have been pitching.

Johnson made his debut with the Senators in 1907. The first Model T was not produced until 1908.

Weiser
 

No provenance, Hank. All I have to go on is that the writing on the back strongly appears to be period. Of course, it could've been incorrectly identified back then, but not with intent to deceive for $.

I think I can find out conclusively if the Weiser ballpark had stands, and will try and do so.