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-   -   Wagner?? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=154895)

bmarlowe1 08-10-2012 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlighter (Post 1024707)
Mark, are you a detective?
-Jake - no I'm not. I haven't even been able to find my cell phone since Tuesday.

For those who don't know me, here is my usual shameless plug. I write a quarterly photo newsletter (Mystery Photo Supplement) for SABR's Pictorial History Committee that is mostly about identifying what is depicted in early baseball photos (direct links below). They started in April 2008 (top), and the latest was March 2012 (bottom). The first couple of issues were pretty wimpy, but I think they improved a lot over time. Some of the recent ones have been perhaps just a bit controversial.

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http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/M...ublication.pdf

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http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/mysteryphoto2-09.pdf

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Mysteryphoto5-09.pdf

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Mysteryphoto9-09.pdf

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Mysteryphoto1-10.pdf

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/Mysteryphoto5-10.pdf

http://www.sabr.org/cmsFiles/Files/M...photo10-10.pdf

https://sabr.box.com/shared/static/x...9saxlbzj0z.pdf

https://sabr.box.com/shared/static/t...8u64tq5rtd.pdf

https://sabr.box.com/shared/static/1...092a683653.pdf

Bocabirdman 08-11-2012 05:36 AM
Based on the latest posts my Mark, (Mark: You have done some intensive work here), I tend to dimiss Wagner as the lefty batter. Did the umpires, back then, rotate around the field from game to game as they do today? If we know they did, then Mark's second picture, logically, must be of the same game. Even if it isn't, the thickness of Wagner vs. the lefty is striking.....just my two cents....

Frozen in Time 08-11-2012 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 (Post 1024705)
Great thread, I'm learning a lot!!! No expert, and don't know if it means anything, but the extent of the socks that are showing between the questioned photo (#1) and that of Wagner batting RH (#2) also appears to be quite different which I guess could change during a game.

In photo#1 the length of the socks showing are approximately equal for both legs, whereas in photo#2, Wagner's sock on his right leg appears much shorter than on his left leg.

bmarlowe1 08-11-2012 03:38 PM
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s.../thomas1-2.png

yanks12025 08-11-2012 03:48 PM
Great work Mark.

Frozen in Time 08-11-2012 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 (Post 1024937)
Outstanding Mark!!! I really admire the time, research, clear discussion of each piece of evidence and scientific approach that you have shared with all of us. The details of the "forensic" process you employed will serve as a useful template for all of us seeking identification in future photos.

Thanks a lot.

Craig

iwantitiwinit 08-11-2012 05:19 PM
In my opinion it is clearly not Wagner, calves are too thin.

thekingofclout 08-11-2012 07:15 PM
Along the same lines as comparing that both Thomas and the Batter wear their belt buckles on their right side. Take note in the way that Thomas wears his pants compared to the Batter. Thomas wears his much longer than the Batter does. We're all creatures of habit, and none more so than Ballplayers. I'd find it unlikely that a player would wear his pants long one day and short another. Once you feel comfortable with a certain length, I really don't think you'd switch to wearing them the opposite length.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

bmarlowe1 08-11-2012 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekingofclout (Post 1025007)
Along the same lines as comparing that both Thomas and the Batter wear their belt buckles on their right side. Take note in the way that Thomas wears his pants compared to the Batter. Thomas wears his much longer than the Batter does. We're all creatures of habit, and none more so than Ballplayers. I'd find it unlikely that a player would wear his pants long one day and short another. Once you feel comfortable with a certain length, I really don't think you'd switch to wearing them the opposite length.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
I considered the buckle supportive of the ear comparison which is pretty strong on it's own, IMO. In any case, below left to right we have Thomas in 1900, 1902, and the 1905 photo I used where his pants are well below his knee.

I don't know how much choice these guys had with respect to pants length. In 1900, it seems his pants were not as long, though he is seated on the ground, so maybe it's not so easy to tell. In the 1902 Spalding Guide photo, which I think I scaled pretty conservatively with respect to the 1905 photo, his pants are clearly shorter (if that's really him).

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s...e1/thomas2.png

Shoeless Moe 08-13-2012 10:57 AM
somebody overpaid in that ebay auction.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=221057149168


did the winner chime in? are they a net54-er?

Jlighter 08-13-2012 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe (Post 1025525)
somebody overpaid in that ebay auction.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=221057149168


did the winner chime in? are they a net54-er?
Look at Forever Youngs post on the first page.

T206Collector 08-13-2012 03:19 PM
1 Attachment(s)
There.... now he's batting right-handed. Everyone's a winner!!


:D

bmarlowe1 08-13-2012 03:49 PM
Who's that lefty catcher?

thekingofclout 08-13-2012 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 (Post 1025638)
Who's that lefty catcher?
Why Babe Ruth, of course! ;)

jbbama 08-15-2012 07:52 AM
Not Wagner.........
 
I would start by learning what other batters on that Pitt team were lefties....start there. IMO, bottom half of body is too thin to be Wagner.

bmarlowe1 08-15-2012 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbbama (Post 1026152)
I would start by learning what other batters on that Pitt team were lefties....start there. IMO, bottom half of body is too thin to be Wagner.
I would start by reading the posts in this thread.

Bocabirdman 08-15-2012 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 (Post 1026191)
I would start by reading the posts in this thread.
Now Mark, what, of any importance, could have been touched in in a mere 94 posts? Now why didn't anyone think to check on the Pittsburgh roster for that year?:D:D:D

BKasarda 08-16-2012 09:15 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Here is another similar picture. It is a postcard circa 1915. Looks like the guy batting left handed


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