Kind of sad how much crap they are getting for creating the site.

Great job guys, again. Love all the articles as well, especially the Olbermann/Doyle story.

Sorry Dan, it's just my name. Maybe a good bartender will do the trick.
Take care, Mike

Thank you. Nice Site.

Just want you to know I really appreciate this site - what a great resource. Thanks for putting it up and thanks to all for creating it. Looking forward to seeing the site develop.

Wow! What a great site. It must have been a lot of work to put together.
Just one suggestion:
- Only some of the pictures (in the proofs gallery) have the T206Resources.com
overprint on them. Why is that? Shouldn't they all have that to protect the
images from being stolen (and appearing on EBay someday)? I was able
to copy an image from one of the galleries to my computer easily. I think that
there are other ways to protect the images also.

Great site. Like the authors of the site said, this is a work in progress and will be updated and updated for years. It 's great and I think everyone wants the most accurate information available and I think this site will deliver.

The site has just been born, let's let it grow up. It takes time and errors will be made.

Happy Hannukah !!
 

WOW !! I get under the weather for a couple of days and BOOOOOM !!! As a long standing collector of this incredible set I want to thank everyone involved from the early years of collecting to today. All of you have added alot of information over the years and I thank you all. I am sure we will continue to find out more about this set as time goes on thanks to the continuous efforts of us all. I hope one day to be able to contribute to the collecting of this set to my fellow hobbyists.

Happy Holidays !!

Envy (also called invidiousness) is best defined as a resentful emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another's (perceived) superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it."

Spray some Windex on your wounds and get over it Ted!

I praised the site... it's good. it's useful. I thanked them. I didn't sling crap at it, I'm not envious, and I do care about the weather in Baltimore.

But notwithstanding the 'clean slate' claim, there should be acknowledgements to Mr. Egan and his list, Mr. Hietman and his Monster, Mr. Lipset and volume 3 of his Encyclopedia, Scot Reader and his Inside T206, the massive collecting, collating, and information sharing of Ted Z, and others, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Sloate, there are more... The guys that put that site together have feuded with some of those that deserve recognition. The makers of that fine site should acknowledge what went before, and failing to do that they detract from their own site.

I don't need mention there. But I have come to regret selling some cards to some of the folks associated with the site. And I still say it's a good site. Thanks again, guys, for putting that together. And if me thinking that has some of you thinking I'm silly, that's fine with me. Maybe silly me should cut and paste the entire Net54 Vintage Pre-War baseball card site, cut out your various names, and create a book about old ball cards. No need to attribute anything to anyone, evidently.

Well-said, Frank.

(edited to remove my comments which added nothing to the conversation that hasn't already been said).

Hey Rick G.
 

There is no "envy" regarding this new T206 site on my part. If you'd bother to read thru some of these posts you would catch my initial response to
this site at post #55 ........

" Quite a cool site, well done....and, very user-friendly. "


It appears that you are a newbie on Net54; therefore, you most likely are unaware of the year-long "bashing" towards me on this forum by Tim & Jim.
Telling everyone that my prior research regarding T206 cards is fraught with errors. When this same research has been lauded by most on this forum
for the past 7 years.

ENVY....that's a nasty 4-letter word that best describes Tim & Jim to a tee.

So, now I discover that this new site has errors in its checklists and I dare to bring this to their attention.

Well look Rick, have you ever heard the expressions......

Turn-about is fair play

Or perhaps......

What goes around, comes around


Next time, before you post what you did, try to be more informed. Instead of jumping to unfounded conclusions.

And,for now, I will ignore your subtle ethninc slur in that last line of yours.


TED Z

nice job
 

First let me state Nice Job guys on the site. As a non collector of t206s it was great to see something like that put together. I loved to look at all the info that was placed there and the site will continue to evolve as more information becomes available. But really guys this is why many of us have stopped posting . The stink some of you make about who should get credit,who should be mentioned,whos horn needs to be blown! Jees cant you just give credit where credit is due!. Then we start with Plagiarism! Some of you are grown men that act like 5 year olds. Like it was stated by someone else in one of the posts if you want credit (or think you need ego boosting ) start your own site. Then you can put your name on it in big red capital letters.

Edited to remove my comments, which were useless. My apologies - I was bored.

site
 

And you know what scott I could really care less . Here have a rolly eye for your trouble:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do fake scans count? I kid, I kid. Happy Holidays everyone!

Here is a xmas tree made out of backs.

http://i.imgur.com/Yp4Lw.jpg

Great tree card image!

haha, awesome Chris!

NICE TREE, Chris. It brought me a smile. Thanks.

Me either - I have removed my comments. Good luck learning about T206's - you have the only resource you need, regardless of where the information came from.

Great start to your site. I'm glad to see the world is 1 step closer to a virtual monster. Any thoughts of attaching scans to the checklist(s)? It would be fun to watch the superset develop from both a completeness and quality standpoint as new and/or "better" examples poured in from the T206 community.

Photo taken by Louis Van Oeyen (from "A Portrait of Baseball Photography")

Sold by MastroNet Auctions in 2004


Jantz

Neat large poster, frame has Sovereign Cigarettes on it.

http://i.imgur.com/w5HLG.jpg

Thanks Jantz - that's one I don't have yet on my site.

Chris,

I was just scrolling through this thread.....skimming, not reading, contemplating the psychology involved in the "fued" when I scrolled across your tree and BAM a big smile .......................

LOVE IT and thanks!

a good segue for me......logging off and moving on to Christmas Eve festivities............

Happy Holidays everyone!

+1 Well said.

Hi Frank-

No disrespect, but they fully acknowledged Scot coining the term "super-print" before they even made the site available to the public.

Sincerely, Clayton

And then they started with a clean slate and came up with it all on their own for their site.


I know some of the contributors on their About Us page. Not all, some. The way things are at the moment, if I were on there I'd ask that my name be removed until an acknowledgement page is added. Because I know enough of what has happened, that a few folks have been omitted because of feuding, and other folks deservedly should be listed.

What they've put up there is a really good resource. But after looking at the About Us page it is obvious to me what they're doing. Maybe they should shut down the About Us page completely until they put up accurate acknowledgements, too.

As it now is, in looking at the contributors, I know that there are some folks listed who did very little compared to some folks who've been left off. All I did was call them on it. Clean slate...

Just out of curiosity, should the other site be acknowldged because they had T206 info but seemed to only use it for profit and skamming fellow collectors? Info was there but there is no cry to acknowledge them.

Yes, I am one that got acknowledged for my minor contribution but really don't think that there was/is anyone that had more research or knowledge on the Cycle 460 backs. That was my contribution, I gave it willing and they chose to add my name to the contributor, I was happy to share it the info whether acknowledged or not.

If you look back at other T206 research threads you will find information obtained thru information that was previously known and not acknowledged or if it was it was because they were prodded to as you will see by edits in the threads. Why was there no uproar over this?

The owners put up the site and saw fit who they felt contributed to there site and final product. To me this site is a great place to find consolidated info on the T206 set and I know it will be used frequently by myself.

Lee

.................

.................

Scott - The Flick image was sent to me by a contributor who stated in the email that he had shared the same image with you as well several years ago. The image was not taken from your site and edited. I would never do that without your permission.

.................

Scott - I told the person that submitted the image that I didn't want the card included and they edited it and sent it back to me. Whether right or wrong it was presented to me as being an image that they shared with you, and not your image they had taken and sent to me.

If it was their image to share with the both of us than I don't see an issue with us both having a copy on our sites. If it was your image that they sent to me, I will take it down immediately.

.................

Scott - I'd be happy to chat with you off the forum via PM, email or a phone call. I'm easy to get int touch with and easy to get a long with.

We did contact you prior to the site going live because we felt like you may want to be a part of what was happening. I'm sorry you feel like the timing wasn't perfect, but we did make the effort to reach out to you, and tell you if you were interested we would love to work with you.

.................

Scott- I'm sorry you see the site as being something conceived with such ill intentions. Our goal was to build a place where collectors of the T206 set can go and have as much information as possible available to them about the set for them to enjoy. If collector's want to participate we welcome that. If they prefer to work on their own site, post their information here, or share what they have or know somewhere else, that's great and we wish them all the best. The more information the hobby has available the better for us all.

.................

Scott- why did you delete all your posts?

Amen, Tim. :)

Runscott didn't delete all of his posts, Tim. 17, 90, 93, and 103 are still there. And I think you know why he did it. Leon will contact him about it, ban him from the site for a while, possibly, so he might not be able to answer your question.

No doubt you guys have been busy during the holidays. Hopefully, you're done just talking about adding a section about the folks "that have advanced the hobbies (sic) knowledge of the T206 set", and you're now ready to actually add a section to your site as you mentioned previously. Please post here once you've done that. That would clue me in to realizing that it is time again for me to visit your fine site. Thanks.

While I am obviously mindful of the board, as one forum member said some time ago "every situation is different." IF someone deletes 5-6 of their posts out of a thread I think that is their prerogative. If they start deleting all of their posts they have ever posted on the board (and it is a very large amount in lots of threads), then it starts messing the board up in a big way. I am not so good with that. Scott (hi Scott) deleted a handful of his 750+ posts, only in one thread. I don't see that as too much cause for an alarm. From knowing many aspects of this situation I can safely say I am just glad I am not in the middle of the brouhaha. (love that word) :) Now back to collecting.....

Back to collecting..............My New Year's resolution. Thanks Leon.

Rawn

Elmer Flick image on Scott Forrest website
 

If anyone needs to know where the Elmer Flick image that is on Scott Forrest's website came from, please email me at eangyal@roadrunner.com and i will fill in the missing details. There seems to be some missing credits on that website as well. Thanks,

Eric Angyal

Great site!
 

I'm late to the party here but wanted to send my congratulations and thanks to those who put this site together. I read thru with great interest this morning and loved it! Thank you again for your time and efforts in putting this together!

That would clue me in to visit your site....oh brother give me a break.

Yes guys please please hurry and do what Frank asks so he can visit your site, without Frank being able to visit and be happy with what you have done we are in a holding pattern. :rolleyes: After all having Frank Wakefields kudos means everything in this hobby in case you didn't know that.

If you don't do what he says there's a very good chance he continues to cry and moan and kick his feet and hold his breath in cyberspace all by himself.....wait now that I think about it who cares.

Frank stop crying about what others have done or the way they did it and do something yourself already. How about make your own site or sit on your hands already.

John

Extremely Grateful........
 

I've already said it but want to say it again- thank you all for putting this wonderful site together. This truly is a work of art, I am blown away.

To have all of this information at your fingertips, all condensed into this site is amazing !!! I appreciate it, and feel the owners and everyone who contributed directly to this project should be commended.

This accomplishment, and gift to all of us collectors, shouldn't be overshadowed by who is or isn't on an "about us" page. It is really disappointing to see anything negative come about in a thread , that in my opinion, is a reason to be celebrating ( at least for those of us who collect T206's ). So, I just wanted to express my gratitude and appreciation- THANK YOU !!!!!!

Sincerely, Clayton

Starting to miss the Brucii.

Rawn

This thread needs more... Cowbell Windex!

Golly, John. Did my persistence touch a nerve? Sorry.

The 'resource' site has used the work of others, notwithstanding their clean slate position. The 'resource' folks have slighted a few folks that they've feuded with. It isn't necessary for the 'resource' folks to make peace, but it is only fair and forthright for an acknowledgement to be made. Especially after claiming that it's all their own stuff... In a roundabout way Tim indicated acknowledgements had been discussed, and might be forthcoming. That is what I'm after.

But then, John, maybe I didn't touch a nerve after all. Instead, maybe you just attack my persistence as a way to discredit the message itself. The message is valid, can't assail that, so roll out the whine and crybaby stuff. Well done.

And the Windex reference is a bit offensive and insensitive. We can do better than that.

t206 resource
 

Hey guys....here comes the scales again:D

please bear with me....and read ....



I just want to start off by saying, the site is great for all and our hobby alike....we all need a joint effort and contribute to the knowledge of t206 and unlock some of the many, many , many mysteries as we all know, which many of you have already...this is obvious to all the professional collectors here....stop any bad information and corruption that tarnish our hobby and turn new collectors "off"....we all make mistakes...lets learn from them..

I am really don't know where to start, but i am thankful and blessed to be able to pick up a few cards in t206, which pretty much is an obsession as some of you know me, this set is all i collect......i am humble to some of our veterans here and would like to thank all of you have contributed to my knowledge of the set...directly and indirectly...


i have made some great friends over the years, and have enjoyed my collecting these beauties like you wouldn't beleive.....i kept to myself for many years and just quietly looked for my cards.....like i said, over the years, and ebay handles actually be able to identify some of the guys you bid against for years , and actually could put a voice or a a face to some of these guys....or i shall say gentleman(it's the jersey in me):o

Leon has set up a great forum where we can all get together, and that's net 54 which john drekker(btw-keep up with the writing john, your articles are pure nostalgia;))...got me hooked on in 1999 i beleive and i am lurking on this thing constantly.....:)


The collectors who i consider close my "dudes" that i care more than cardboard about include(and i am leaving out alot)....John Drekker, Jim Rivera, Jantz Mike Healer, Jamie Blundel, Hank Levy, Dan Allread, Mac Wubben, Brian Weisner, Art M. , John M(wonks), Erick Summers, Turner Engle, Dan Mckee, Scott F., Trae R., Chris Browne, Clayton Jessup charlie, honestly i am leaving out so many ......:o


...i collect, rarely sell, and am not looking to make money off anybody, and i am sure everyone here can verify this, so i am giving as much of a non-bias opinion as truly possible.....although some of my "dudes" are owners/major contributors to the site....

Barry Sloate, Frank Wakefield, Ted Z., Barry Arnold, scot reader and so many more veterans i only chat on the board with deserve so much as they have contributed much beyond measure...



Listen....


Scott Forrest...is one of the , i consider, the man on t206.....he is one of the guys who got me hooked on the freaks many years ago along with Art M.(ask them:))....and i passed up several freaks he gave me an opp to buy and i didn't and am still trying to get them!(downey overprint, dorner double stamp) just 2 name two......


I was excited to see scott come back, so SCOTT .......you know you are the man....i feel sadened by what i was reading......scott you have done so much, i'm sure all of this is a huge misunderstanding.....



Tim i don't chat with at all, but Jim is my boy, if he says Tim intentions are there, and what i have read of tim he has been dead on(except my chance sov 460 has fact magenta all over it!!!gotta see it)i support the site 100 %....and i know everyone who deserves credit will be given it.....in some way, because we are part of t206 advancement and the hobby...


the site is still brand new.....i am sure we will all have a page at some point, or showcased collections....the major early and latter works will im sure be well spelled out at some point.......these guys imo are only there for one passion............T206.............i have already as, im sure many, our suggestions....and do not claim to have re-invented the wheel

LET IT BE KNOWN- i want no credit because i have contributed nothing directly to the collective info, i am just a freak:o




The monster causes many to become greedy.....when large bucks and ego comes into play....sometimes we get hurt and THAT SUX!


VETERANS, NEWBIES, And Haters/lovers....


T206 interest is only gaining momentum every year and i don't see interest dwindling......egos aside.....i know Tim and Jim will always do the right thing, and looks like they have already....lets still be able to debate, but stop and malicous attacks on each other....it's going to be a new year.....let's ALL advance the set/hobby and i'm sure one day we will all be credited for the true dissections of this set...these guys were just excited to get it out there, i can see why....let's all give them a chance to include all that im sure will be added at some point....Scott....we love your freak information/images....they are what got me hooked....i love the first back stamp i bought off you Killian pitching.....so, you know i respect and you are will always be given props....



PHEW:D


THANKS FOR LISTENING...



Respectfully,



John vanderbeck

Frank yawn, you would have to matter to me to touch a nerve. No worries no nerve touched over here. Please keep on chatting love seeing a grown man cry and moan like a little kid who hasn't got his way who knows perhaps the site owners will breakdown and take the much needed guidance and direction of the Great Frank Wakefield. :D

Once again perhaps you can spend all this energy of yours and make your own site the way you see fit just an idea vs. telling everyone else how to run their site over and over and over.

John

Great post John V. :D

It was also great to see Jantz & Mike Healer added to the "about us" page- congrats guys !!!

Sincerely, Clayton

John, you are missing the point - we AGREE with you that it is a great site.

Frank has been very clear in making his point, and like me, had to repeat his points in various forms in hopes that you guys would read and understand. You have not.

Frank has done a LOT of things himself, as have many of the rest of us . Those ideas and that research is for the most part now residing on T206Resource.com, and in the future everything T206 will certainly be funneled through that site, for the new owners of everything T206 to do with as they wish. I guess that's good...if you are them. The rest of us will see our contacts begin to dry up, as I already have - T206 origin photos already now go to Tim. That's fine - I'm Joe's Feed Supplies to Tim's Wal-Mart, which is the way things go. I completely understand. As far as the rest of 'their' site information goes - it is FINE to publish the work of others, but only if you acknowledge this. Gazillions of people have successfully pulled off the acknowledgement problem. If you want an example, look at my 'T206 Errors' article and the bylines, or at the acknowledgements on my 'T206 Origins' page. It is simple....if you want to do it. And hey, most of you consider me an a-hole - well, if an a-hole can do it, a saint like Tim can certainly pull it off.

Those of you who have published nothing, created no websites, contributed very little to T206 research (not you, John, but the others who are dropping the 'envy' bomb) - yeah, I get how you have no complaints about the work of others being gathered by these guys. Why would you? Sit back and enjoy.

We will continue to enjoy this hobby, despite the unnecessary drama (some of which I am guilty of contributing to). This will blow over and in a few weeks I will give Jim a call, and probably Art, and see what their thoughts are - pleasant discussions expected, as always. I'm really kind of stunned that they are involved in this project with Tim - they could have certainly done it without him.

And Tim, before you build another straw man for use in dancing around my comments, please note that I won't even do you the courtesy of reading them. You wore me out with your tap shoe routine last night.

t206 resource
 

Clayton....got ur email!!

Guys like you make this a great hobby:D

John, I very much appreciate your kind words.

Do not worry about this - you illustrated very nicely just how many passionate T206 collectors are interacting with one another on this board, and how different our collecting habits are. My expertise is very limited compared to Tim, Art, Brian, John, Ted, Jim, yourself, Barry, and almost everyone else you mentioned, but thanks anyway.

When I rejoined the collecting world, I swore I would not get involved in this stuff, but I felt the need to support Frank, as the words he was saying were clear, true, and many people who I have never even heard of were jumping his butt like hyenas on a wounded zebra. This kind of made me sick. If that crap had not been posted here, I would never have said a word about Tim's less-than-admirable information-usurpation habit.

The newbies jumping to suckle on the T206Resource sow was not a surprise, but I seriously hope that those who have been attacking Frank, etc., end up with hind tit.

I am not privvy to the John (Wonka)/Frank feud, but I like both of them and I hope it gets resolved.

No, John - it was not a misunderstanding. This was a well-executed information coup. But you know what? It's just cardboard. Really old, cool cardboard, but no babies are dying.

Nice, John V. Thanks for that, and safe holidays to you.

John M, once you hammer in the point about me being a cry baby, and that you yawn and care not about what I think or say... then let's get to the point about origin of material and acknowledgements. That's the point. What about that? And then, once you explain about how the 'resource' site needn't acknowledge anything, after that, then you can recount the times I've called you names and stuff like you've just done to me. By doing that, how does that make your position reasonable?

Never called you names Frank just said I care not about your thoughts. I think you sound like a guy with sour grapes here and I disagree with your constant moaning. We get it you think they need to add names you have said that we get it. Why do you need to say this over and over?

John

our veterans
 

Scott and Frank, and safe and happy holidays to you !!.....your welcome......:)

I agree with Scott, John and Frank hope you guys settle.....John call me;)


Scott,

you really got me going with that error article you wrote on the errors.....and i can't thank you enough!!;) most of my error collection you are responsible for giving me inspiration.

You are an intergral part of t206, period. BAR NONE!! your name doesn't even need to be in print to have collectors know the invaluable insight you have given over the years...i am grateful....and hope this all gets settled....i really do...like i said, jim r is my boy and i know he always does the right thing...if i couldn't count on that dude, id quit collecting these:D



when i saw you posting again, i was really stoked!!btw....i love your avatar! i want that card;) but, chris loves it aLso, i have really come to like chris browne..so he has first dibs, but can i next??:p


OUR VETERANS WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN, JUST CREDITED WHERE DUE!!! I'M SURE:)



Scott,

please continue on your t206 error research if you can...;)


would be nice to read your website!! we won't forget about the mom and pops, that's what built our great country...



Peace


Johnny V

I discovered the image for Roy Ellam's T206 card about 5 years ago.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=connellsville

I no longer own this postcard and can't recall who I sold it to, but just wanted to let you know that this image is out there.

I like the website, they list the Carrigan as a possibility in a CB back and I'm good with that,(still a $100 reward for one to purchase in any condition). Any resources for collectors is great and can only be looked apon as another tool for us to use.

Rawn

site
 

Johnny V., I must say, your posts typically bring a most appreciative smile to my face, and it has happened once again. I am grateful for your balancing of the issues and fairness to all those involved. I am also very grateful for the gadfly nature of Frank W., Scott F., and Ted Z. who are advocates for what I also believe is a fair request as I said in my earlier post, viz. a proper accounting of those involved in the history of research. Thank you,gentlemen. You give me much hope in the future of Net 54 vintage scholarship in the new year.
all the best,
Barry

T206
 

Barry,
:D
Kudos, and once again spoken like a true scholar and gentleman:D.....that's why we need to look to the veterans and their insight, wisdom, and experience with this set.....every day we learn something new, and i always read what you have to say on anything t206.....we are all apart of it,especially you, and you bring a smile to my face when i can read that!!;) i'm a libra, and happen to love all you guys....:D

Jim and Tim will do the right thing i'm sure...like i said, i can speak for jim and i'm sure tim is a class act also!!


Peace

Johnny V, you rock!

Johnny V
 

You are most kind!!
Many,many thanks.
and Happy New Year to You!!
and ,of course, PEACE

best,
barry

T206 masters...
 

Chris and Barry...


I put you two on my t206 "master" collectors.....;)

Both of you rock.:D

Peace my bros

649 proofs, seems like a larger percentage of those shown/known are from this subset.

http://i.imgur.com/XR4tD.jpg

A question about t206resource.com. I see how to see all players possible for a specific back, but is it possible to select a player (Chase pink, for example) and see on one page which backs are confirmed? Perhaps it was mentioned or right in front of my face but I can't seem to find it on the site. If its not available, no problem just wondering. Thanks!
Rob
:)

As someone who would not try and put a set together, but would really like to collect all the back variations for one player this would be exactly what I am looking for as well. Great question Rob!

I think that would be interesting to see also. For example, if I wanted to see all possible backs for Red Cobb, and also all possible backs for all four variations of Cobbs (probably more difficult).

One other thing I noticed was that for the Sweet Cap 150 No 649, the HOFers aren't marked.

That is being worked on right now and will be available. Until then the least labor intensive method is:

1) Determine the print group a subject is in. (Example: Johnny Bates, Group 1)

2) Go to that page on the Index (Group 1) and at the top all the possible backs for that print group are listed.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...5%252520PM.jpg

3) Go through the brand checklist for that subjects possible backs and determine what has been confirmed, is possible or is believed to be a no-print.

I hope this helps. It will be much simpler in the future.

thanks Tim!

BTW, i should get some acknowledgements or accolades or a trophy or something for submitting an improvement request right? If I don't see my name listed, there will be hell to pay!
:)

Here's your trophy:

http://anacraftyone.whencreativitykn...WCKCJTroll.jpg

eek, I'm a troll!

I don't know, are you?

a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

you gave me a troll trophy, so I assume thats what you were insuating. If you meant differently by it then I'll stand corrected!

Scott I'm surprised you haven't responded to this post at all, especially considering your strong position on attribution earlier in this thread.

-R0SS C. BEEVER$

I missed that post, but I will recommend that you stay out of stuff where you are clueless.

Eric must have sent me the photo originally. If you look at my page, you'll see credits everywhere. Quite obvious that I have not intentionally left anyone out.

But, yeah I get it - you want to get the flame going. Flame on buddy.

I have dog in this fight but you probably need to put your full name out here per the rules....thanks

Please, Eric, just post all the secret details. I'm sure it's movie-worthy.

Anyone else?

I mean, while we're at it - let's just have an all-out virtual rumble.

What other credits am I missing, other than yours?

Once again, I've gotten a former friend all butt-hurt because I voiced my opinion of Saint Tim. Yeah, I know - I have 'website envy'. :rolleyes: