The sad part here is that both of these guys are on the good side of the fence...a nice discussion can be possible without googling each other to try and dig up dirt. There is no evil past to Richard or David. Let's turn this thread into something positive. Let's see some examples of this forger and let's hear some reasons why our board experts believe it came from the forger.

Here ya go professor (can we still call you that?, even with such a low rating).
This scan was sent to me by a very knowledgable collector and he is searching his files for others, which if I get, I will post here.

Aw shucks David,,, no low ratings for me among collectors, only low ratings for you from students at Skidmore.
No dirt on me as you might imply.
Your posts are loaded with innuendo and question marks,,
Your (sarcasm) e mail confesses to getting an atty.letter from Prisco, then another e mail apologizes to me and then you start not one but two threads designed to make me look bad.
Has anyone here thought that David's e mail about Prisco's atty. was sarcasm??
Why the apology e mail and then an attack?
Sounds like you have a borderline personality disorder to me, David.
One minute you are the good David, the next minute you are the sour, bitter David.

I'm not talking about dirt, Richard. I'm talking about accomplishments, and the contributions made to one's field.

Google me. Google you.

The difference is quite clear.

When I googled you I found 22 years at Skidmore without any advancement.
And in a day or two googling you might find your go f--- yourself quote to the dean. That would be sweet if it hits google.
And lets make this clear for google,,, I have an e mail where David Atkatz admits saying go fuck yourself to a dean at his college.
(Leon if you deem that is something that should not be on the board, let me know, I will change the wording, but it is in David's e mail, he is proud of it, he has never denied it being in an e mail that he sent to me).
No wonder the Skidmore page about you was so bland.
They were probably happy you were retiring, or did they force you into early retirement?
That is you David.

OMG!

(For what it's worth, she's an ex-Dean now. I guess I wasn't the only one who saw what she was doing, and was willing to stand up to her.)

Did she get lousy ratings from students too?
I wonder if I google some more can I find out about a possible forced retirement of David?
And we only have your word about her being an ex Dean David.
And we know, like your apology, what that is worth.

Smackaroo! Right on the butt. (Leon, don't you have some kind of rule about posting private emails?)

Well David the only way to convey to the board your actions in this manner was to post what I did. And I have not posted the private e mail where you proudly stated you cursed out the female dean.

Give it a try, Dick. See what you find. (Hope you have lots and lots of free time.)

Ya know, Dick, enough already. You've got a nice way of making allusions to things that don't exist. (Maybe people who don't exist either.) You know. Kinda like this: "As of yet, Richard has never been caught beating his wife."
(Can't argue with that. It's true!)

Anyone who wishes--and I don't know why anyone would want to--is free to Google me, and see what appears. They can Google you, too. The comparison is clear, and speaks for itself.

Started to read this because like most threads on this board, I thought I would learn something usefull. This has become an embarrassing pissing match.

Grow up gents. If you want to kick sand in each others faces do so via private email and stop humiliating yourselves.

Maybe you guys would like to get back on topic.

What topic is that, Barry? The "your ball is a forgery 'cause I say so even though I haven't produced one iota of evidence or argument" topic?

Here is another Johnny F--- piece.
Sorry for the small image, I tried to enlarge it but it killed the image.

Let's see one of his team balls, Dick.

richard,
Isn't it going alittle far to go digging in someone's personal life. Jeez, I hope you dont plan on doing that against every one on this board.

Also looking at that Gehrig, I'd never buy it and I know nothing about autos. Just looks bad to me, same with that Wagner

Chris - I will be the first to act like an adult, and retire from this thread.
My only further posts will be if I get more images of Johnny items.
We know that David's apologies mean nothing.
We know that David can be vulgar to a woman.
We know that David stopped posting on the Prisco thread because he was terrified of a lawsuit.
David nobody can believe that you had nothing else to say in that Prisco thread. I have to admit I laughed so hard when I read you saying that, it brought tears to my eyes.
Imagine, David Atkatz having nothing to say about the hottest thread on Net54.
Especially after Leon posted the lawyer letter and everybody and his uncle jumped into the thread, either chuckling about the letter or showing support for Leon. There were numerous people posting on that thread who had not posted on that thread prior to Leon posting the letter. Yet David, who had made a number of posts on that thread, could not bring himself to make one post about the lawyer letter that Leon got.
And last but not least, we know that David defends questionable pieces using the same tired words that all the bad sellers do,,, and I am not accusing him of being a bad seller, but he is using their script.
You are a lowlife David,,, using the name Dick when referring to me,, but I knew you were a lowlife already.
Especially when you have no balls at all.
And if team baseballs are found you will see them.
Bye David, I leave you to wallow in your own self doubt, sadness and bitterness. I am done with this thread except for more pics of Johnny material.

Bye, bye, Dick.

Just for the hell of it, does anyone else think I'm being treated differently than any other Skidmore retiree?

http://content.yudu.com/A1s4lx/Scope...esources/8.htm

David, you started this thread titled "Halloween and threads are disappearing."

The first few comments were about the original thread being deleted. No big deal.

Then you comment with the above quote. It's almost like you were throwing something in Richard's face and daring him to respond. At the time, no one except you and Richard knew what the "big secret" was between the two of you.

Did you expect Richard not to respond? You started this, David.

Then you wrote the following to Richard:

But how come no one's asked for your help in the last decade?

Now I take offense to that comment, David. There are a few of us who go out of our way to protect and help the hobby. You have no idea what we do behind the scenes to protect the hobby. I've done approximately 190 YouTube videos exposing garbage in the hobby; I've had to endure threats, attempts at intimidation, etc. Years ago I had a threat so serious that I had to document it with my local police department in case anything happened to me. You state to Rich "But how come no one's asked for your help in the last decade?" You haven't any idea what Richard has done during the last decade that goes UN-noticed and never publicized.

The crap that the few of us have had to endure you would not be able to handle, David.

Here is an old SCD ad with an Eddie Collins that was a Johnny.

You didn't seriously say that, did you, Chris?

David- I meant for you and Richard to stop arguing over your academic career, and to get back onto the topic of forgeries.

Looks exactly like the type of stuff Robert Prouty used to sell.

Very convincing, and priced just enough below "market", that it enticed collectors to take the required leap of faith. I wonder how many are sitting on these pieces, still believing they're real?

YES, I did write that, David.

I know you wrote it. But were you seriously playing the martyr?

Let's assume that all three balls you have posted, Richard, are forgeries. The Gehrig is nothing at all like the other two; why do you believe that all three are the work of the same person?

WTF are you talking about, Richard?

You tell me you and two other board members believe my ball is a fake. You tell me you "know" who made it, but won't provide a name. I point out that another (very respected by the industry; more so than yourself, I daresay) person has vetted the ball, and I, too, believe in it. (I do have a little experience, myself.)

So, without any other evidence, such as provenance, all we have here are conflicting opinions. (And not Chris Morales's opinion, but opinions of respected people in the field.)

So what tired words am I using? What script have I cleaved to? Or should I have just taken your opinion as gospel?

Did you seriously write that, David?

I wrote that comment because of your disparaging comment directed at Richard when you wrote "And I commend you for your work in those two cases. But how come no one's asked for your help in the last decade?" I found that comment very insulting and I took that comment personally even though it was directed at Richard. I have never patted myself on the back. And a lot of what goes on behind the scenes is never publicized.

David, maybe you can post a link to your website where you battle the sellers of forgeries, or better yet, post a link to your latest YouTube video.

Battle? On YouTube?

Try not to get hurt.

Would you please post a link to your site, Chris? And to some of your YouTube videos? I (and I'm sure many here) would really like to see some of your work.

And once again I will state that it's too bad that this has turned into a "pissing match."

But for those of you who haven't read this entire thread, David started it with the below comment that can be found on Page 1.

There's a new thread, Richard. Just for you. Now, will you let us all in on your big secret?

Why did you write that, David? The original thread was dead and buried. Anything between you and Richard was not known by anyone else? I just don't get it.

Sure, David. Here is a link to one of my 190+ YouTube videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bgm5TJkGpU

David, maybe I can get your opinion on the below two set of autographs:

Attachment 48777

Attachment 48778

Attachment 48779

I'm not David, but can I play Chris? They all look like the same hand, and the Ruth isn't even close anyways.

Scott, has been a great supporter of my videos since the beginning. And for that, I "thank you," Scott.

Chris- I've seen quite a few of your videos too, but never made the connection that you and the guy in the video are the same person. Let me say I am very happy you do what you do, and I imagine over the years it has gotten you into plenty of hassles. It's not always easy to tell the truth.

Still, so many forgeries out there, tho Chris, Richard and others have gotten lots of crap pulled off the Bay and such, by what people post here, and his videos too.

Even JSA and PSA aren't infallible as we have seen on other threads, but their OPINIONS seem the most valued, far as TPA's go at least. I think Richard, David, Keating, Corcoran, etc add a lot to the hobby in their ways, without being big whigs.

In the end, I guess EDUCATION and avoiding OBVIOUS poor authenticators, etc is the best chance for vintage sigs.

W all the good, its too bad there is fighting now on here, that may have all been avoidable w a couple messages, rather than air it out here.

JMO

Scott Roberts

I, for one, love Chris's videos. As a matter of fact, just recently, I asked him to continue doing them :D and he replied kindly with a response. This thread is a total TRAINWRECK!!

Barry, Scott and Greg, thank you very much.

I will only be doing one more YouTube video. It will be be a special one-time video that will be completed sometime in the near future. I want to thank you guys for asking.

Anyone who has watched my videos knows that I have never promoted myself in any of the videos. For those of you that don't know, I started doing my videos after years and years of writing about forgeries. I thought it was time to elevate from writing to video. I was getting so sick and tired of the sellers of forgeries that it was time to stand up to them and the support I received was most more than I expected. And for that, I "thank" everyone. Today it is a little over three years that I did my first YouTube video. Three years!!! Holy cow!!!

i post stupid things on my youtube...chris is putting vids out there informing the public of all the forgeries. you can tell he's really passionate about it in the vids. like others i also appreciate his effort.

One thing w the Yankees team ball, which I got from really studying, and proving its a forgery, is the "B" in Bob Meusel and Benny Bengough. THEY R THE SAME..:eek:

Ok David, post photos of your ball and we'll put it to the test.

Well done, Scott. That's why I posted those two photos.

With all of the examinations of Ruth signatures and all, it got me wondering: when did he stop using the quotation marks around his name? I never even noticed that he had done so before. It's interesting to think that at some point, it was still just a nickname. And of course, now, it's almost as if it's his given name!

...granted, I know nothing about autographs (or anything else, for that matter)

Graig

Graig, I think it's assumed he used the quotes around Babe up until around 1927 or so, and then after that he didn't use the quotes.

I'm sure others may know more than I do, but I believe that's the case!

It also matches the "B" in Babe (sans the little "flip" to begin the B in Babe).

Here is a 1927 photo, with quotes, it is believed that he stopped using quotes in 1927.

VERY cool. Thanks for the response, guys.

Been there
 

I for one have experienced the backlash with "outing" a forger. Without getting into too many specifics, I posted on here a short narrative w/ examples of what I believed to be forged items on ebay which were believed to be attached to a long time "questionable" autograph seller. To make a very long story short, I was, in short order subjected to a prolonged email, internet, and phone attack that stretched to unbelievable depths. My young children and my wife were also viciously attacked verbally. I have family both in law enforcement and the legal community, but it still took quite a bit of time and aggravation to ease the abuse. I do not know Mr Simon personally, but when I contacted him for help, while he was unable to provide any, he listened to my story, made suggestions, and checked back with me at a later time. I also have contacted him privately with requests for advice, have purchased a couple of items from him, and have always been met with nothing but professionalism and courtesy. To attack a man who seems so passionate about helping others in the hobby is both childish and idiotic.

To be fair... there has been verbal attacking from both sides as I read through the thread. And just as I thought everyone had slept on it, they continued the next morning and it was not from the other party. I have never met either of these guys but have read countless posts by both. Each seem more knowledgeable that the "average Joe" and both also seem to know it … and make sure we all know it. Which, I really can't blame them for that I guess. Your story is a good one and Richard should be commended. But to be fair, I asked David for help via message(opinion on ironically a mantle signature) and below was his replay earlier this year. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Hi, Ben. You've certainly got some beautiful photos!
Thant Mantle looks good to me. (Great price for the seller, too!)
Best,
David “
---------------------------------------------------------------------

This doesn't seem like a man wallowing in his “own self doubt, sadness and bitterness” to me. He didn't need to respond. For what it is worth, I bought the item and it passed psa.

This bickering back and forth does nothing for either side nor the greater good of the hobby. Anyone can look for shortcomings in others(we all have them), tear them down and improve their position. It is the weakest form of advancement in my opinion. Most of us have done it at least once in our lives. I believe most would agree it rarely works long term. Hell, I have done it more than once and I can tell you it doesn’t.
I think that most everyone would also agree that both of these guys are passionate about the hobby and would help the “ Average Joe”. So let’s all just get along and focus on strengthening the hobby. Let’s think happy thoughts fellas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4fWA1b5Trs