That was pretty much what I was getting at. Any T206 showing such drastic differences from normal would have to pass some serious examination before it could be accepted as real.

I could see ones with some differences being out there. There's at least one uncataloged major difference, plus what I think is a new major variety that hasn't really caught on. And a huge number of smaller differences.

I've actually read the whole thread a few times, but only commented in detail since Larry seemed to be saying that any opinion without a close examination was biased because of the owners.

Steve B

Here's what I find curious, and I'm a curious guy by nature. When I see something that makes absolutely no sense, I question it.

Here's this new grading company called ACA that really none of us has heard of. They're trying to get into grading and authenticating baseball cards, a very crowded field, and one in which it is not easy to grab a market share. And in a situation like that a company feels they need to do something to draw attention to themselves. So what do they do- they take a card that is arguably the best known counterfeit in the hobby, and authenticate it. Can somebody explain this business model?

I know someone is going to say it brought them publicity, but that's like a doctor building his medical practice by infecting all his patients with bubonic plague. Sure, it will get him in the newspapers, but it won't build his practice. Like I said, this is a mystery. You can't build a business this way.

I agree that slabbing fakes is a business model that most graders fear to venture into. Unfortunately, I fear that the demand may be higher for that service than I would like it to be. I suppose one could call it a niche market, although it is a niche market that I wish didn't exist.

Dismount, Ladies and Gentlemen
 

First of all, read my posts. I have never taken a postion with regard to this card's authencity. What I have said is the following:

(1) I would like more information with regard to the actual printing characteristics of the card;

(2) That the more actual information one has, the better one's decisions tend to be;

(3) That there have been occasions during my multiple decade involvement with this hobby, probably too numerous to count, where many people have felt they could positively authenticate a card or not, concerning its allegedly original, unaltered condition, based on the appearance of the card to the naked eye, and that they, including myself on several unfortunate occasions, have been wrong (this card hardly stands alone in this regard); and

(4) magnification has been of invaluable assistance to both dealers and collectors alike, as well, I would hope, to graders, in this regard, when it is coupled with a little knowledge.

Now, these truths should be self-evident, rather than a stimulus for vitriol and venom, and I wasn't the one who initiated any posts that were meant or intended to be insulting in the course of this discussion. I'm well aware of the history of this card, and have even read Michael O'Keeffe's discussion of it in his book, "The Card" (highly recommended reading on this as well as other subjects, by the way). To the above 4 points, I would add a 5th:

(5) What did this "newbie" grading service actually do in the way of examining the card to reach the conclusion they did?

I've always wanted to have as much information regarding this cherished hobby as I could lay my hands on, and this occasion is simply no different!

Best regards to all those other dedicated collectors out there, who know we hold the very history of the game itself in our hands as guardians/custodians for future generations,

Larry

I actually responded to that in this thread, but it was ignored. I assumed that the readers felt my thoughts were irrelevant in that regard, but I still think they are legit.

Examples please. If you are talking about the oddities that we have known about for decades, I refer you back to the rarity of the Wagner and the infinitesimally small odds of such a thing popping up for that particular card.

Personally, I think it would be hilarious (and sad at the same time), if this idea caught on. Within a couple of years we might see as many (or more) of these 'uncatalogued' versions of the T206 Wagner as we currently have actual examples of the real thing.

At some point, someone will figure out a computerized way of applying ink to cardboard to simulate t206-type lithography; e.g - you insert the card in a 'scanner' of some sort, it is analyzed by a computer and proper ink jets are activated to create an exact dot pattern. Seriously, it will happen.

Scott- I went back and saw that you did indeed comment about this on post #34. But that was two weeks ago. My short term memory doesn't go that far back. Too much you know what.;)

It's okay Barry. I should have just laughed when I initially opened this thread, and moved on.

Larry, I understand your sentiments. BUT there is no discussions or decisions to be made by "anyone" about the validity of this card, or positions to be taken. Maybe the other counterfeits you had previously referred to. There is one thing we know about this particular card in question, and this is a POWER FACT, so take note... IT IS FAKE!!!! No questions asked or needed. I understand skepticism, but c'mon. It's glaringly obvious to the naked eye. And no matter how many times these clowns try to pull on people's heart-strings by crying racism, this card was not, nor ever will be a REAL t206 Honus Wagner, an unreleased version, or anything even remotely related to the American Tobacco Company.

Yes, but what about the uncatalogued versions that actually say 'reprint' on them? Couldn't they have been released later in 1909, and the word 'reprint' used to differentiate them from the earlier releases? Don't you need to know more about their characteristics before deciding they are modern?

And please - what better way to scam people than by posing as nuns? I'm from the south, so I completely understand how I am automatically guilty of racism, any time it fits the needs of someone who I disagree with, due to the acts of my g-g-g-g-grandfather. Plus, I have always trusted nuns - sue me.

As far as the new Canadian slabbing company goes, I think it's great that the Cincinnati guys finally found a company they could trust to handle their prized card. I think this goes along with all of their other acts of altruism - how could you not trust two guys who are willing to give a start-up company their first big break?

The known uncataloged variety is Wilson with a yellow or orange sky and a very different red sunset. Fairly major and once you have them both in hand it's easy to see it's not fading or a print problem. Both are common.
The major one was discussed here within the last year or so very sceptically, and has since been graded by PSA. I'm deliberately avoiding that one because it's a bit under the radar and I'm hoping to find one before it gets expensive.

The Wagners I have pictures of show probably 3 distinct very minor differences that I can see from the small pictures I have. I know I'll never own even one, but the differences are there.

Steve B

Steve, you have me a bit baffled. So, in the few photo examples of real t206 Wagners that you have seen, you have spotted at least 3 distinct differences, yet you can't tell the Cincinnati one is a fake?

I'll leave others to discuss this with you, as I have nothing further to add that could help you with this.

You left out the part where you cited racism (prejudice). You ought not be surprised at any reaction when you bring up such a subject.

Woah! My earlier post listed about 5 things that made me certain it IS a fake!

Maybe the section I had about how those things logically made the chances of it being real in any way incredibly small was confusing?

I do not think it's real.
I will admit a very tiny chance that I'm wrong.
I'm just as positive that If I were holding it that chance would become 0%

Steve B

Steve, I've never been quite sure what to make of this particular type of variation - you will find the multi-colored 'indistinct' separation differences in many, many litho cards. Wilson does kind of stand out in that there are two that are fairly distinct, but I have seen a few 'tweeners'. I think it's likely that on this type of 'variety', it's a case of having two areas on the 'red-orange' part of the plate that were easier to separate (not enough ink on one portion) than in most backgrounds like this. So basically, if it wasn't intentional, I don't consider it an uncatalogued 'variety' - it's related to a problem with the printing process and while interesting, not an error or variety.

Obviously, we have seen examples in other cards where the background colors are stunning, whereas other examples of the same card are less exciting. Some of the printers must have realized that even though they had a formulaic approach to producing these, sometimes the colors didn't come out right. If it was obvious, and the run didn't look good, it ended up in the scrap pile. If it looked good, it was probably kept. Obviously, the Wilson cards with various amounts of red below the orange all looked 'right', so no need to scrap.

Certainly the differences between a real card and a reprint are something else altogether. If it was easy (or even possible) to make a 'reprint' that could slip by the eyes of not only the doufusses who played the race card in their article, but ALSO by the eyes of real t206 collectors on this board, we'd have slabbed forgeries all over the place.

Okay, now I really have said all I have to say about this :)

The Wilson is a real puzzler. There are 2 basic types that seem very different, with lots of variance between them.

Even in the late 1970's Litho ink colors were mixed by hand. So a simple color difference is usually just a matter of who did the mixing that day.

Producing an exact copy fake would be nearly impossible. In theory It could be done, but the expense and technical skills required would be prohibitive.

I have some defenite ideas about some of the small differences, I'd been planning on posting about it anyway.

But in a different thread that doesn't involve reprints:)

Steve B

Actually I agree with that, and have felt that way for years. A year or two ago there was a detailed thread that discussed this very issue. What I have been told by people with expertise in that sort of thing is that at the moment, if it could be done, the cost to duplicate a lithographic card so well such as to pass scrutiny in all respects would at minimum be multiples of 5 figures, very possibly going well into 6 figures. But I fear that day may be coming, or at least a day where only the most sophisticated equipment and testing, coupled with the most sophisticated knowledge, will be able to detect it.

Even if the cost went into six figures, a single high grade Wagner would foot the whole bill. Everything after that would be profit. What would happen to the hobby if such a scenario were realized?

Clearly the concern you express is correct, and it is scary. The implication, which we are already starting to see with respect to alterations, is that without provenance, "new find" Wagners may hold little value. For example, cards with a strong pedigree (e.g., Lionel Carter collection) will sell for premiums, which in time may become greater and greater.

-

The price could go down just by printing entire sheets :eek:

Since legit graders like SGC can spot trims, they should be able to spot the sheet cuts in the future - PSA could also, but would they? (shut up Scott). Also, in the far future the paper fiber may still be very difficult to 'disguise' as old. I don't know about dating ink.

One thing forgers have going for them is that no one's going to want to give up ink or fiber samples for testing.

I don't believe that. Modern printing definitely does make a better and better representation of a T206 at the eye level, but more and more different at the microscopic level. Under the microscope, a laser printer looks nothing like 1909 lithography, and it is at the microscopic level that you identify and date the printing.

Now the way one could fool would be to make a fantasy item (totally made up, not a copy) using the old lithography techniques. In art schools, you can learn how to make stone lithographs. This is where provenance would be important.

??? That's what we were talking about (duplicating the litho process).

Hey, it's only 1:15!!! coffee?

David,

Glad to see your post. As I recall you were the source of most of the expert information in the earlier thread. Do you think it would ever be possible to so well create a new card that it could pass forensic dating?

Given the technology we have today, with smart phones, I Pads, satellites headed deep into outer space...you're telling me it would be impossible to reproduce a T206? I can't imagine that couldn't be tackled even today. It's just paper and ink.

I would think though that to pass muster with forensic dating, every material of which the card is composed must not only not contain any substance that was not commercially available in 1909, but must also match up perfectly with the substance cocktail of which T206s are composed. I can see how the cost to do this, as well as comply with all other forensic tests (e.g., dot matrix pattern) could be quite large. And it would seem to me if someone knew to do this, I'm not sure counterfeiting Wagners would be the most profitable thing to counterfeit. After all, in addition to everybody's radar being up when a previously unknown Wagner surfaces, the fact that they would be turning up at a certain rate in and of itself will be a basis for suspicion. Therefore there would be a very limited number of times a counterfeiter would be able to go to the well on this with that in and of itself not becoming a cause for insurmountable suspicion.

The problem is that the resulting litho card has to have dot patterns that result in an image close enough to the real thing to fool someone like me or you, so that they can be sold as real. And even closer to matching the real t206 dot patterns exactly, so that it can fool the grading companies.

I think the second criteria will require a computer to control the ink application, since each dot in the original image has to be mapped (using a computer), then applied (again using a computer). I doubt that's possible today, but no doubt it will be in the future.

Anyone remember 1984 Star #101 Jordan's, when out of the original supposed print run of 4,000, it seemed like 14,000 were still out there after they caught fire in the early to mid-'90's? Or the 1985 Chong Modesto A's McGwire, when, despite a supposed original print run of 250 or so, they were everywhere during and after 1998? Up goes supply, down goes $$$ value.

As one that prefers to see the glass half-full, however, I believe that whenever something like a card is produced by a different process and/or with different materials than the original, there will be differences. With technological advances, those differences may be difficult to detect, but I am convinced that they will indeed be detectable. The costs of detection may rise considerably, however. Invest in grading companies now??? A most interesting proposition to discuss (not the investment in TPG companies, but the detectability issue itself). The same concerns would seem to apply equally to the coin collecting field, with the possibility of using computers to conceivably re-create dies to stamp out coins of famous rarities, like the 1804 silver dollar, 1913 liberty head nickel, etc., assuming you could also duplicate the metalurgical contents of the planchets from which the coins themselves are struck by the dies. At the moment, there are a lot more coins that have sold for $100,000 plus than cards, and quite a few collections have sold for sums into 8 figures. There's a lot of money at stake there, and at stake here. In such circumstances, the financing necessary to devise counter-measures of detection will be in place, almost regardless of the expense. Different processes and times of manufacture will leave different footprints, IMO.

May your collecting always be a prosperous proposition, even as to those that think I should find a new hobby after more than 20 years!

Larry

The thing is that the technology to detect it is already getting cheaper.

On TV I saw a show by the twins from antiques roadshow. One item they needed to know if it was ancient chineese bronze or new stuff. So they got out the portable spectrograph! Results in about as much time as it takes to scan a card and no tiny sample to destroy.

A friend of mine worked building spectrographs years ago, and I knew they were expensive. So I did some looking, and a setup like they used on TV was only $30,000 instead of the mid 6 figure and up prices I recall.

If a high grade Wagner was found having the spectrograph results would be cheap considering the price.

Steve B

Thanks, Steve--very interesting!

Best always,

Larry

Barry

I would guess the 2 owners of the card will wait awhile(?who knows how long), and this story will die down.

Then the Wager ACA card will likely pop up on ebay for a very large amt of money as a BUY IT NOW. If no takers, they may auction it off as a legitimately graded card. Legitimate that is to ACA. And no doubt someone will pay hundreds to perhaps thousand(s) for it(though none of the board members)

This card on ebay will fuel hope in someone that they may actually have a Wagner for a lot less money than they could every afford. That person will have bought a fake.

When (not if) this happens, I doubt the owners would fade. They may try it again(since it worked the first time), with another card of value(i.e. Plank T206, or Lajoie Goudey). Probably use ACA again if it is still around and if the Wagner does not expose them by that time. This time, they will likely do it privately(without much fanfare)

You're probably right. They will look for some venue that might work for them. It might be ebay, it might be one of those small country auctions like they tried the first time around. This story won't have a happy ending, but I'm sure these guys will try to sell it.

STAR jORDANS
 

sIMILAR CARD BOARD SAME PLATES, big DIFFERENCE FROM THIS PIECE OF CRAP, AGAIN IF YOU NEED A LOUPE FOR THIS CARD YOU DONT KNOW CRAP ABOUT CARDS, SORRY Larry but since i dont sell anymore i actually can be more honest, about what is know a hobby and something I do love and am passionate about. There are alterations and even a few counterfeits that need louping but the overwhelming majority have a number of signs that give them away as fraudulent before you ever need to pick up a loupe. I am willing to bet over 90% of fakes are deemed as such at grading companies before they ever pick up a loupe. You can discredit authenticity without one, however on something like wagner or a mantle 52 many may need one before unequivocally authenticating.

Don't want to beat a dead horse...
 

...but thought I'd share a link to a "press release"...

http://www.prlog.org/11711982-ohio-c...lectibles.html

...and in case you want to "like" the card on Facebook, the card even has its own fan page...

http://www.facebook.com/TheCobbEdwar...onusWagnerCard

I hope they are planning to use Colossal Auctions.

Interesting. They were willing to place the card in a safe owned by someone else (who unsuccessfully attempted to auction the card) for 5 years, but were afraid to give it up to a grader for 20 minutes or so. Hmmm. Yep, race and class are the issues. Particularly class, or the lack thereof.

Anyone want to go in halfsies on creating a few fraudulent Just So cards, or maybe some N172 Anson in uniform cards? If I read the story correctly, all we have to do is perservere for a few years. I'm a WASP, so that race thing is kind of problematic, but I'm sure we can figure out a way to overcome that handicap. If we can, at the least, we should be able to get a book or film deal. If the article is correct, it should easy money.

Whoa! So it's not a proof but a genuine reprint from the "war to end all wars" era??? All this from a Canadian cable tv appraiser??? Bernard Goldberg and Bryant Gumbel! I'm stoked! I can't wait for the movie!

Lovely Day...

Well, they need an angle to sell this so of course they're playing the race card. We're just picking on them because we're white and they're black. And outright lying doesn't hurt either. They claim that various message boards (meaning us) have been hurling racial epithets at them. Nobody here has ever made even one racial comment towards them; the only negative criticism we've expressed is that they are committing fraud.

Then they take another predictable route: since Mastro is under investigation, he can't possibly be trusted to authenticate it. And since PSA graded the Gretzky Wagner, they too wouldn't know if it's real. Just play out the bullsh*t angle and everything will be fine.

And I knew they would go back to the Connelly fellow because he was the only one to support them the first time around. I hope that on the day this card is scheduled to be auctioned, the feds are there with three pairs of handcuffs. What a crock of sh*t.

What I think is funny
 

The funny thing about them playing the race card is they are trying to sell the card so how does it even make sense to say those rich white men who run the hobby won't buy the card from them because of their color? I could see them playing the race card if they had a mint condition Wagner and wanted it to be recognized as the best one in the hobby but they are trying to sell the card to these rich white men who want to own a Wagner, you could probably find hundreds of them to bid on a real one and they wouldn't care who owns it. There has never been an auction description for an authentic Wagner that sold that included the color of the seller in the description just for full disclosure

Playing the race card makes absolutely zero sense in this situation and I don't know how they convince people to write stories based on that premise. They're basically saying these rich white men refuse to give them money for the holy grail of baseball cards, not based on the card's authenticity but based on the color of the seller's skin.

wow Barry, in the ~6 years of me being part of net54, i think thats the most worked up I remember you getting!

Rob- when these guys first surfaced on the board- I believe it was Mr. Cobb who posted here many years ago- I was equally agitated. There are so many things about them that get me worked up. However, I agree I'm normally a whole lot calmer... I forgot to take my Propofol this morning.;)

Barry's absolutely correct. I've recounted the story a number of times, but to wit, I was there when they first purchased the card at a show in Cincinnati and it was obvious from the beginning that the two of them were con men. They knew (and admitted) it was fake then and they know it's fake now. The most remarkable aspect of the entire saga, however, is how far the story has been drawn out and how many resources various local and national news outlets have expended on it. Cobb and Edwards bought a reprinted T206 Wagner off of a dealer's table for $1. End of story. No other footnotes required.

Truer words have never been spoken

No one here knows the racial makeup up of T206 Wagner consignors overall. As noted the identities are rarely revealed to the bidders. I don't know. You don't know. The gentlemen from Cincinnati don't know. The reporters from the New York Daily News don't know. As consignments are mostly done through the mail, the auction houses don't know the races of most of their consignors. Who says black men haven't before successfully consigned or gotten graded by PSA a T206 Wagner before? Someone's claim that no black men have successfully consigned before a T206 Wagner to REA or Legendary or whatever big wig auction or house or gotten a T206 Wagner graded/authenticated by PSA or SGC is conjecture. And not only is it conjecture, it could also be wrong.

If that Wagner were real, its owners would be amazed at how many white collectors would be happy to discuss with them a possible purchase. They would be equally amazed at how many white consignment directors would gladly work out a favorable deal with them to get it in their auctions. They might even take those two gentlemen out to dinner. If it were real all racial tensions would thaw in a nanosecond.

I have been a member of Net54 for a few months but haven't posted yet because I am not sure whether I want to get back into collecting yet. My interest would be in T206 era tobacco packs.

Anyway, I came across this 2002 Cincinnati Enquirer article online that I found to be intriguing:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...gner_card.html

The article stated that the card was claimed to have been picked up at an "estate sale".

Is it related?

Hey I have that card!!!!!!!!!!
One sec its with my 1990 score baseball cards. Didnt know it was worth millions. But I did pay 1800.00 one night when I was a sleep. Dont look at the front though look at the back please!!
Oh and can I have 1,000,000.00 I work very hard some times. Easy street please!

It looks like 6months is the length of time that Cobb and Edwards waited with their fake Wagner. Also you were right it will end up on ebay.

http://www.honuswagnerauction.com/

I know people are getting tired of this story, but I still find it interesting until there is an end (more than likely the two selling it, then ending up in jail for fraud).

This website they started for their auction just seems to give more evidence as to the card being fake. In particular the page they have named "Rosary Dot Matrix info". I have never seen a close up of this card before, but now that they have given a close up of the card it is even funnier. Why wouldn't they compare it to another t206 instead of a postcard? Because it doesn't have the same printing!

I know everyone here knows it is a fake, but we need to keep posting these posts whenever it is going up for sale to fight "News" articles that pop up like these that popped up today:
PRWeb
This article has even been picked up by yahoo news as well as other outlets that are publishing the news article from prweb.

Michael, if you really want to have some fun with this, buy a copy of the same reprint they used and create a page showing close-ups of your print patterns and comparing them to those on the scammer card. Send it to the media - they would have a field day with exposing the scammers.

i spoke last week end at the MTL card show with the man at ACA who authenticated this Wagner and i asked several question about the card to the authenticator.

All the answer i received from the grader didn t persuade me it is a real card. I continue to think it is a fake. He said to me that ebay will permit the sale of the card in april on ebay website.

i have some difficult to explane his answer in english but his explanation is it is not the honus wagner card like we all know... he said it is another version of the wagner.... anyway

for me it is not a real Wagner T206.

this story aint even funny anymore..

The card is so bad and easy to spot as not being from the 1910 Era let alone related to T206 (not lithographed) its borderline stupidity on the medias part, that keeps it in the news.
Its not even a counterfeit, its a reprint Ive seen many times (1985-90s Era one) that is badly doctored to look old.
A counterfeit is usually much better, and made to fool. This is a novelty piece for amusement...

that "Rosary Dot Matrix" page is funny though, they are trying to PROVE its not authentic (w/o even knowing it) with that crap :)

love the "rainbow printed" caption closeup, thats all the proof you need to know its not lithographed... lol

These guys are relentless. THey sure are putting a lot of energy into what will either amount to nothing (no sale), or a fraud charge and time in prison.
JimB

Well, direct from their website:

"The Cobb/Edwards card past all test giving by the VSC40FS machine."

It "past" all test. Sounds to me like it went right past the test alright....

If it goes on ebay, there will be enough people contacting them with negative feedback and ebay will be forced to shut it down.

On their website, Cobbs and Edwards post that despite all the negative publicity, nobody has come up with the facts to dispute its authenticity. And that of course is an absolute lie. They've been told on countless occasions the card appears to be a reprint glued to a real Piedmont back, and they've been told repeatedly that the paper is wrong, the colors are washed out, the resolution is poor, the fonts aren't right, among other things. They instead choose to tune out the facts and create ones of their own.

Yes, but Barry - since they are the ones who had all the modifications made to this reprint card, their behavior in attempting to sell it is as to be expected. The real joke is the few ambulance-chaser-grade media reps who have given them publicity. The joke ends when it finally gets purchased and the new owner takes them to court.

And that's when the real entertainment begins for us.

It would be unfortunate if somebody actually pays thousands of dollars for it. It could happen.

You're right Barry- but that's what they're banking on. Just one person who will buy into the dream of owning one- and believe all the B/S in the write up on their website.

It's funny how they did the close up of the printing of the words......multi colored :D

FAKE

Sincerely, Clayton

There is no way in heck ebay allows that auction to run its course. It seems that with these clowns it is not about the money anymore (well it is a little about the money) as much as it is about "Ha, I told you so."

If I happen to hit mega-millions tonight, I'll buy it and burn it just to end this story.

They've created their own reality distortion field.

It is the guy at ACA who told to me the card will be allow by ebay to be sold in april.... it is what he said to me last week end...

wathever the place this card will be for sale, these guy will not find buyer for his card.

I have a feeling ebay may be allowing it as long as they cover the fact that the card has "controversy" surrounding it. Also at this point they (the cousins) may be saying to Ebay that it now is a collectible in and of itself because of the news that has surrounded it.

I don't see any controversy whatsoever regarding this card. It's a fake with no argument proving otherwise.

x 2

Entirely, 100%, agreed. That is why I had to put it in quotes.

if it goes on ebay I will buy it..... for $1.99

For those just reading this again, this reprint isn't even one of one and it isn't a real back on a fake front. I have the same exact card. Got it from a dealer at a Cherry Hill,NJ show in 1991ish.

I have to admit that now I'm not so sure. I mean, the card has a FACTORY DIST. NUMBER on the reverse side so now I'm thinking it might be real after all.

See for yourself: http://www.honuswagnerauction.com/wp...ck-revise3.jpg

Interesting thread. the ACA slabs/flips look almost identical to BGS

The issue has never been the back- generally accepted that the back is real and the front is a reprint affixed to an authentic back. Also, there are reprints out there with factory numbers.

Yes. I know. I was being facetious.

:D LMFAO :D Thanks....

Sincerely, Clayton

Did anyone notice the picture they used to help you learn about the t206 set? Looks like four of those cards are just as real t206's as the Wagner they are trying to sell.

For full disclosure, I hope it does sell for 10x what it is actually worth and the person who buys it, takes it famous places and takes pictures with it, Flat Honus

The irony....
 

Did anyone notice the examiners cert calls it an unrealesed version instead of an unreleased version..... :)

The entire website is filled with misspellings, malapropisms and unintentional (but humorous) errors.

I predict the card won't get higher than $1000 if eBay decides to allow the auction to run to completion but you never know. If the price remains low -- at least relative to T206 Wagners that are authentic -- it's going to be a more difficult task for Cobb and Edwards to try to paint all potential eBay buyers as racists.

If, however, the card sells for much more, I have to think that we will see a lawsuit at some point after the new owner submits the card to PSA, SGC and/or Beckett.

In the long run it is difficult to see how Cobb and Edwards are going to profit from their obtusely contrived business venture.

A 600K starting bid is every bit as dopey as every other aspect of this story. And of course it will pass and these two guys will still own the card.

This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

That's it, it's no longer available, .....or is it??? Did ebay nuke it?

"The T206 sat of cars is full with errors"
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...by_Nianden.jpg

From the auction description:

"Do you end auctions early?

Sorry, but we do not end auction early. Auctions will go for the full duration."

From Ebay:
"This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available."


Their website also states that the auction will be on April 18th, so was this just a teaser?

Looks Fake To Me, But What Do I Know!!
 

I thought this interview was pretty good..

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