My two cents
 

I'm glad Bruce is back. His threads are among the most informative and thought provoking on this board and, at the end of the day, those threads generate applicable and useful information/discussion, which is arguably the prime purpose of this board. Yes he can be provocative. But we are all big boys/girls here, and I think that is a fair tradeoff for what he adds to our hobby knowledge.

As someone who watched his father die from cancer call me a softy for someone who I thought was very ill and could benefit from participating in Net54...if that makes me a hypocrite so be it.

Let's all be friends and make nice,Bruce can mingle with his own species. This will be difficult since Howard Hughes, Leona Helmsley and Aristotle Onassis are dead but I'm sure he has lots of other friends than us peasant lower 90% collectors.

double talk
 

We find it remarkable that so many who don't care about what we say care to comment.

Even more remarkable are those who want to legislate their own rules. We responded to a comment about death- and responded to a question very few of you would have the guts to answer honestly.

John's sarcastic comments and cartoons are accepted as fair play, but if one does not agree with John or appears to be elitist then it presents a problem.
Tell us John, are you, in fact, not the owner of a substantial collection, what kind of car do you drive, and do you give more than 20% of your income to the poor? We think not

The Board is a great source for information, but to deny the hobby is still a business, and there is rarely an article, a trade magazine and certainly auction that does focus on value.

We have as much right to our elitist views as you do to be a liberal Democrat, a conservative Republican, a Red Sox fan, a Rockies fan, a born again Christian, a Muslim a Jew or a transvestite.

Whilst we greatly appreciate the overwhelming support that we have received on the Board and privately, we do wonder why some pretty advanced collectors fear controversy and change.

Remember the famous quote " I am all for progress, it is just that I am against."

We are for change and discussion. That is only way we learn from one another.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Bruce,

I think you are missing something here? If anything I was defending you Bruce. :confused:

I thought the shots about you kicking the bucket. As well as the comments about you disappearing from the face of the earth with nobody missing you or knowing you were here were way below the belt. I also find it odd that Dan’s last comment was to bring you back as form of therapy or help for you. If by therapy Dan means as a moderator to allow folks to take personal nasty pot shots at you because you "deserve it"…then therapy it is I guess. Perhaps tough love?

Now you come in here spouting if I give to the poor or what kind of car I drive….really? Bruce I’m not going to waste my time telling you about my finances or justify how they are positioned. Nor is it any of your business, carry on with your assumptions.

As for my collection the only reason you or anyone is aware of anything regarding my collection. Is I have spent years here sharing just a fraction of my collection. Which now in many ways I regret and will refrain from doing in the future on Net54 as it’s clearly not appreciated.

Bruce I wish you continued enjoyment with your window watching of successful people. Don’t let little ol’ me stand in the way of talking about important collectors and their spending habits.

Cheers,

John

I am with you and I didn't vote ( at least not that I remember) I am disappointed this pompous tuit was allowed back on here....BUZZKILL

Hold it just a minute there! :) I realize I'm not a long-standing member here with a 1K+ post count, but I think I speak for the GREAT majority here when I say the sharing of card scans is always appreciated. It's why I come here -- to see scans of cards, read about the excitement my fellow collector has in obtaining a card, and learn new things about sets I might never collect.

I appreciate that the high end collector exists, and I wouldn't question their knowledge or importance within the hobby. I would, however, rather have a forum with 1,000 collectors on a $5K per year budget who share scans of every cool card they pick up, than a forum of 100 elite collectors who keep most of their collections and knowledge to themselves.

The "numbers" are totally arbitrary, and absolutely meaningless. Made up of whole cloth, they represent nothing more than Bruce's snobbish biases.

In response to David's comments
 

David

We certainly would like to see your numbers- you are quick to accuse, but never offer anything but sarcastic comments.

We suppose that the next thing that you are going to state is that President Obama's economic policies are well received by the American public.

We certainly did not publish these numbers randomly. Furthermore, we see nothing wrong with talking about the high end of the market. You, yourself own a plethora of high-end Yankee material..

The question raised about items that appear in multiple auctions or items that are not really sold, despite the auction house stating to the contrary, is one we do not believe anyone can answer.

Our conclusion is that the large baseball auction house market is about $100M (re-sales and false sales aside) 15% of the value comes from items selling in $5000+ range. Our best estimate was there are 200 collectors who spend $25,000 or more 50 collectors who spend $100,000 or more and 5-7 collectors who spend a million dollars or more. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hope you are well.

Bruce

I would think, although it's just speculation, that there is a very significant volume of private transactions at the high end that aren't reflected in auction house sales. Certainly there is incentive to avoid the premiums and sell directly. If this is true, then perhaps there are more collectors in Bruce's categories than his numbers reflect.

Tone and Intent
 

I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with discussing the numbers, whether it be how many $1 million collections are out there, or how many T206 beater collectors there are out there.

It is all about the TONE AND INTENT of the question: If meaningful dialogue on this point was actually the INTENT of the question, then it should not be written in such a TONE.

Whether or not someone can tolerate the tone to get at the true intent of the question is entirely besides the point. The questions themselves would be sufficiently provocative without all the atmospherics surrounding them.

While I enjoy reading the train wreck as much as anybody, these posts always devolve into pure drivel.

Bruce could stand to take a page out of the Jim Crandall playbook. Crandall's collection is now getting the attention and merit that it so rightfully deserves. Crandall has an open door policy, and will invite people over to see his collection. And he has shed all of the drama of his earlier posts.

OK, I am a nobody on this board, just trying to gain knowledge and delve deeper into what I consider an amazing hobby that I can enjoy for the rest of my life. I spend between $5 and $10k annually and am beginning to get the basis of a decent collection going. I come to this board for insight, opinions, updates, scans, and oh yeah, FUN!! I don't care who says what, I am a big boy and can filter out and make my own decisions. As long as people aren't defaming others (which I have seen on this board) all comments and ideas should be allowed. If you don't like what is said, ignore it and move on. This place reminds me of many high level management meetings I attend where egos get in the way of progress and personalities distort the facts. This is not the end all people, we are talking baseball cards here. People's health and family should never be targets, stick to the topics..... just 2 cents from a newbie who would like to be here a long time......

Tim

I think Bruce adds a lot to the board as his threads are imo some of the best. I for one can ignore his tone and other stuff and if others did the same we would not have the issues we do when he post, granted it would be nice if Bruce would also ignored their replies too. I do find it funny how others cant wait to attack his every post, reminds me of some of the MMORPG gaming forums I am on with 15 years old boys going back and forth, can be quite entertaining on its own, lol. I am glad he was allowed back but like others said it would be nice to see some more of his collection, I think his Boston Garter display is an amazing card.

And John please keep on posting scans of your amazing collection, I wish more folks would do the same.

tone death
 

Dear T 206 Collector

The tone of our original post was purely factual. Once a few "wise guys" began a discussion about our possible demise, we responded accordingly.

As for an open door policy, we have invited a small selected group of collectors and dealers (less than a dozen in 35 years) to view our collection.

Whether or not one shares pick ups or photos is a private decision. For a plethora of reasons, there are countless items that are part of our collection which heretofore have never been seen. Until our catalog is completed it will stay that way.

We are always available to share knowledge and respond privately to a 12+ questions a week about cards- always in a friendly tone.

We appreciate your comments and wish you the best.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

I very much appreciate seeing whatever items you decide to share from your collection. Please don't refrain from posting in the future.

I have no problem with the original post but there are some problems with the tone and attitude that comes after.

The original post might be close but an educated "guess" is still a "guess." I also see that it does not allow for the auction houses that spend money on items to sell at a later date. I think your number might be a little inflated as Scott has said but not wildly off. I do think that as people come to the hobby and leave the hobby, the high end will be just that. Top percentage of all total collectors, precise number does not really matter.

As to Bruce himself, he is a total ass. In the past the threats, disgusting remarks about my profession and family, the awful language, and the attitude were just unbearable. No apology ever given to me or others. No sign of regret. Nothing. And all I did to deserve this? I asked Bruce why an obviously intelligent man would refer to himself in the third person?

Ask Bruce why he give money to the poor? He has said many times that the poor are "scum" and don't deserve charity. He does it as a tax break, pure and simple. Just an example of the type of guy he is.

And Bruce, the level of education and where you went to school have nothing to do with being a classy, educated, and intelligent member of society. It has to do with geography. As many people can point out, it is what you put into your education and how you approach it as opposed to what grades you got and where you went. Obviously you put effort to get where you are, lots of academic effort. If you put even a fourth of that towards becoming a better person, learning some tact, and being thankful for what you have been given you might be even more successful (yes, given...I am far more impressed with the kid that went to a junior college, started his own business, and worked it up into a successful and happy enterprise than someone who took other people's money and made more money...nothing into something trumps (pun intended) something into more something in my book).

Joshua Levine

"We have as much right to our elitist views as you do to be a liberal Democrat, a conservative Republican, a Red Sox fan, a Rockies fan, a born again Christian, a Muslim a Jew or a transvestite.

That's it, gloves are off now. Candy Denver Colorado

Joshua
 

Whilst we have no need to respond to your child-like remarks, and you are free to call anybody anything you want, we do wonder when you were able to acquire our tax records.

We believe you are liable to purge yourself (if you know what that means)
with your allegations about tax deductions.

Should we decide to collect assholes in the future, we will be sure to add an autographed photo of yours to our collection.

As you will note, we have not threatened our attacked anyone, and unlike your emotionally immature comments, we have neither provided an opinion about character or called anyone by an insulting name.

Enjoy your day. Happy Collecting.

Leon
 

Leon,

Enough is enough isn't it ?? Weren't we just talking about the enjoyment of the hobby ? This is ridiculous !! This is like negotiating with an ex-wife, no winning.

The real answer is of course, and someone will point this out to me, stop reading the post. Thanks, you are correct.

Wow, I will never again waste my time trying to appeal to level heads...

Party on boys.....

Bruce,

Are you going to the National this year? Any big ticket items you know that will be there that you will have your eye on? What about the live auctions?

James

I've got a Wonka and Rob D which are the two biggies from the A hole set. :D

Why do most people on here get their damn feelings hurt so easily????? Are we really so insecure and thin-skinned that we honestly give a damn what someone else in cyberspace thinks and says? Feel free to call me names, insult my lack of intelligence, wish death upon me and my loved ones, talk about what went on with my mother last night, make personal comments about whatever you want.... it just doesn't matter in my world. Besides, there's not one thing anyone on the internet can say to me that hasn't already been said to me in person by my ex-wife.

I, for one, enjoy reading Bruce's posts (and I don't know him personally so I'm not biased). This guy obviously has a vast knowledge of cards and he really brings some interesting threads to Net54 that typically incite good conversation. Also, @ Wonka, please don't stop posting scans of your cards and by all means please don't refrain from sharing info... I've learned a great deal from your posts in the past.

Bottom line, words are just words. If no one is stalking anyone and trying to cause physical harm, then it's really no big deal. We all need to learn a little humility and be able to laugh at ourselves and quit stressing out over the trivial name calling. Besides, it will make Leon's life a lot easier as well.

-Mike Schulze

Natiional
 

Hope to attend. It is all a matter of health and what the Doctors say
in early August.

Would like more Negro League pieces, ad display pieces, a few tough wrappers
and the usual card suspects.
Thanks for the good wishes

Bruce

You really want an autograph picture of my asshole? Grammar must not be taught at Wharton. I can provide it but only to a top tier collector like yourself. It will cost you...

Joshua

+ 1

I do believe they were double-printed :)

Last years National was really thin on wrappers. I've always wanted a 1933 DeLong but have never seen one come up for public sale. Let me know if you spot one...even if you get it first.

Sadly Ted's study shows 95% of all Wonkas are miscut.

Miscut is fine but the pin hole is worse.

"public vs. private"
 

I would agree with Peter. If I had to estimate, about 25% of my collection come from the "public" auctions. Most of it comes from private sales. This should serve as an offset to the "recycled" sales that flow through the auction houses.

Not sure if my 25% is low or high, but I throw it out there as a data point.

Hey Big Spender
 

How can a "we" be single?

Father, Spirit & Holy Ghost? All the same dude.

Bruce.The be all end all, the alpha and omega.

Well said, and true indeed.

you're nobody until somebody cares
 

We are particularly amused by the comments that "no one cares."

Funny, how we have hundreds of active business clients around the world.

On the hobby front,we hear regularly from four major
museums, not to mention the wealthiest collectors,
and the top dealers in the country.

As far a mark history, we're not interested in leaving one...of course
we could never hope to be voted the most unpopular physics professor
in the country or become infamous for card altering, auction fixing,
or defrauding customers.

If no one really cares about our what we have to say, why do our posts consistently generate 4x as many replies as all the others? We are far too busy to pay attention to postings, tweets or people that do not matter to us.

We think it is time to leave well enough alone, and close this thread.

All the best,


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Bull.


Magna cum laude and you don't know it's "croak."

Succeeded? We only have Bruce's word for that. Try Googling him. Basically, you'll find nothing. Not much evidence of any kind of "success."

And yet you reply to every single one!

Wish Granted.