I don't have strong feelings about this but think that allowing controversial topics will likely impose additional responsibilities upon the moderators to try and ensure civility.

Mark

"Am I missing something here? I thought Baseball was a religion!"

Nice.

Wow!--What controversy! Responses coming in faster than you can read. You've stirred the pot, Leon; love it.

My initial reaction is, however, that you're asking for trouble.

Religion and politics can be very destructive issues, in many unforeseen ways.

I'm an advocate of free speech myself, and it seems it's already practiced here, within the limits of "collecting" [for want of a better generalization].

For myself, I do appreciate this forum as a tremendous resource of expertise and a friendly place for a baseball card collector.

Whatever, thanks and good luck.

Doug

New Section
 

Having seen the level of civility that has appeared on this board over the last few years when any serious (or not so serious) controversy has occurred, I think this new section is a Pandora's box, especially if the subjects of religion and politics are allowed. There are plenty of other public forums where people can rant and rave all they want on these topics. I like the board the way it is now and I would not like to be the moderator trying to keep a lid on potentially explosive rhetoric if this new section comes to pass.

John

Another, more concise thought...
 

If we all come here because of our joint love for pre-war cardboard, it is foolish to think that any other discussion will bring us closer together.

I don't think it's needed, and I'm real sure it will not enhance this forum in any way. Quite the opposite might happen, so I voted "please forget about it".

Why in the heck, would I ever feel the need to discuss whether it actually really really snows in Hawaii, with a bunch of baseball card aficionados. I can find a thousand people to discuss snow in Hawaii, but if I run into a prehistoric baseball card dude, I'm talking baseball cards. Simple as that!

Lovely Day...

There is no such thing as an adult conversation when it comes to these two topics. They may start out that way but seldom end in such an easy fashion. By the end of most of these conversations guys are screaming in their own homes and pulling out their hair, and I can't afford to pull any out. I voted no on both ends, but I know if they are on here I will have to visit. OH Lord. Frank

I went with "I don't care, do what you want to", but then again I'm not really religious, politically inclined or easily offended. :)

Here's something funny regarding the internet:

I just clicked on Google News and went to a story about Mayor Bloomberg and the snowstorm we just had. Some of you may know that he really screwed up the blizzard cleanup a few weeks ago so all eyes are on him today (we had about 8-10 inches last night). Would you believe at the end of the article people are commenting, and they're cursing and fighting with each other...over a snowfall! How can you get combative over such a benign topic? What is it about internet chat boards that often brings out the worst in people? Compared to some of these sites, Net54 is like the boy scouts. I think we are the best behaved internet group around!

Well said Doug !! :D

The members have spoken
 

Why do the poll if only to ingnore its clear and convincing result?

By better than 2-1 the answer is no.

If the Moderators are ready for more work I say why not????

It does indeed snow in Hawaii. Probably doing so right now on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa on the Big Island as we are presently experiencing a very wet and unpleasant winter storm at lower elevations. That and anybody who doesn't agree with me sucks.

Jeff,

Thanks. I will save my political comments for your radio show. :)

Yes
 

I voted yes to both. It's not like anyone is holding you at gunpoint to read this section if you don't want to. I feel it will be worth it to watch Brucii make at least a few posts. If this section turns into an absolute nightmare, it can always be shut down. Arguments happen all the time, everywhere. I enjoy discussing politics & feel I can have an intelligent and constructive discussion here more than anywhere else.

I don't think Bruce will be doing any posting around here.

We're all adults until we strongly (vehemently) disagree with someone about politics or religion. Then the gloves come off and people lose all control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4

Ya know, when's the last time we saw a good train wreck of a thread?

Wow. I was looking forward to this. This is incredibly disappointing. Similar to when I found out Santa wasn't real.

solution
 

Easy solution. You don't have to look at it.... :)

As far as why vote if it won't be used......because it helps make a more informed decision. Does that answer that question? As of right now I have changed my mind and am leaning to not allowing politics or religion on that section.

I see no benefit in adding this section and many potential problems. Everything should be done to encourage more vinatage card talk, not to offer alternatives to it. Is the purpose of the board to maximize vintage card interest or to maximize eyeballs? If it is the latter the new area may make sense; I hope that is not the case.

Jay
 

Jay, as stated earlier, and evidenced by the 93.4% approval voting for this section, I feel this is a family. Family can talk about other things than baseball cards. You don't ever, ever have to look at that section. I find it hard to understand why people want to deny others from doing something they want to do that is harmless. It makes 0 sense to me. Please help me understand why you don't want me to chat with my friends when you neither have to look at that area or be involved in it? regards

What Jim B. said. A thousand times, no.

This is why this area should be allowed. The people who don't want it never even have to look at it. As I stated earlier, if it turns into quicksand, it can be removed. We are all adults (mostly). The people who want it can discuss current topics. The people who don't want it are not being forced to look at it.

How about an area where folks can upload porn clips? Ya know, because those who don't want it will never have to even look at it.

Excellent question, by the way.

no
 

That won't be allowed. See new rules when they come out :)

Now Rob, would that be soft or hard porn? I mean we should probably discuss that right now.

I'm sure there are those that feel hard porn may be a bit over the top but then there are those that may feel it has nothing to do with vintage baseball cards. You have to figure out where to draw the line and then you must remember that one man's hard porn could be another man's soft porn.

Leon, can we post porn? Can we? Can we? :p

Ok, so we can, until the new rules come out... is that about right?

sure thing if you want to be banned...go for it :)

Ok, take the fun right out of it...

I was thinking about a "soft" scene from "Bull Durham" - you know, when Annie's teaching Luke about baseball....

What if the porn features a vintage baseball card as one of the main characters?

One plot concern: Did they have pizza deliverymen in the 1880's?

new rules
 

The new rules are taking a bit longer than anticipated. I want to make sure everything is covered. I just added pornography to the things that can not be posted on the site :). Also, of course there is a catch all clause too....which gives broad power for things that make sense but weren't covered. I hope to have them up this week.....There will not be a poll and they are no debatable. That being said the board will still be run the same way as always. I really do try to give as much latitude as possible, while trying to keep civility. Just because you are a pain in my butt on the board doesn't mean you can't post....otherwise a few folks would no longer be with us.

Also, I find it interesting that some of the folks that didn't want the new board s/w (which only a blind person wouldn't think was better than the old s/w) are the same ones that don't want the new section at all. Some things never change.

I Vote "NO"
 

Leon:

There is plenty of B.S. dialogue already on the news, radio, TV, facebook, Twitter etc ad nuseum and you have a great site here. Why muck it up?

We have Beck, Olberman, Matthews, O'Rielly, Savage, Kos ad infnitum for those who are couch bound. Please leave N54 as it was intended.

In view of last weekends events in Tucson this would be a major mistake in my opinion. Pretty soon some 54's will be attacking each other for absolutely no benefit.

Mark K. Bowers
sealmark

You forgot Kent Brockman ;)

Here we go...
Here we go...
Here we go...

I started a thread regarding poitics in the Water Cooler section!

if nothing changes.....the decision is
 

As everyone can see by the poll, with 223 people voting so far, there is a 93% approval rating for a new off topic chat section. For the 15 people that don't want the new section, the other 208 appreciate you letting us have more fun. There was over 50% that do not want politics or religion to be topics, so they won't be permitted.

As a comparison, changing to the new s/w a year and a half ago, if I remember correctly, only had about an 80% approval rating. This is much higher than that, and I would be a bit surprised if we don't have close to 100% of our members that think the new software is better than the old software, as of today. For the 93% that don't have an issue with the new section you can join in anytime, and for the 7% that don't want it, you don't have to but are still welcome to. This doesn't mean an occasional off topic won't be permitted on the main board, they will. But most of them will be in the section for them. The new board rules will go up this week and they will be announced for all to read. Just to be clear, again, I don't see the board changing at all with the new rules. For those that like it the way it is, you should be happy and for those that don't, you will remain unhappy. All in a days collecting. I did listen and took notice of your opinion. I wouldn't have asked if I was unwilling to change mine. Once again thanks to all of our great board members for helping make this decision, and this board, be the best vintage baseball card board on the net. best regards

yes, here we go
 

yes, here we go.....thread locked and member banned for 1 week. best regards

unbanned because Fred is a good guy :)....but that thread will stay locked :)

Leon - can we vote on new rules to be added? E.g. a rule that everyone must refrain from starting a thread asking about the authenticity of a Goudey Ruth with a blurry scan until they have started at least 10 other good threads in that forum?

Nice spinning. Can I change my vote to "I don't care", heaven forbid I get lumped in with those sociopaths that voted against the thread???

Lovely Day...

sure thing
 

Sure thing....you can change it, duly noted. If you want to call people sociopaths you can do that too. It's America....

A couple of points...
 

1. I was not in favor of the change to a new board and I have found ZERO benefit in my own interests in Net54 as a result of the change to a new board. The new board is still more cluttered than the old one -- the gift of sight is somewhat a curse, I guess -- and thus my prior objection is still completely true today.

Here's a link to a thread about Ty Cobb on the old board. Take a read -- see how much easier it is to review and read? Now try doing it from your iPhone or Blackberry. Again, much easier in the old world.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...+Ty+Cobb+cards.......

2. It is misleading to say that a water cooler section has a 93% approval rating based on the poll as currently structured. While no further polls are warranted on this topic, I would predict that a binary choice -- water cooler vs. no water cooler -- would show more than 7% against, based on the comments on this thread.

3. Finally, on the concept that this is a family and you want a place on here to talk to your family, that's where you completely lose me and, frankly, this concept does not give enough credit to the value of this board as it is found by most of the people who check it out as an information source on pre-war baseball cards, decidedly not a family.

Moreover, the more you change a proven commodity, the greater the risk that you will lose its essence. Look no further than eBay, which ran much more smoothly as a pure auction site, than it does as a BIN depository. Sure, eBay may make more money doing that, but does anyone seriously question that eBay has lost the essence that made it so popular in the first place? The more add-ons you make to a fundamentally text-based pre-WW2 baseball card message board, the more you run the risk of diluting the brand. And to cavalierly make these add-ons without any acknowledgment of the risk of change is unfortunate and makes me somewhat pessimistic of the board's future.

FYI,

IF Leon choses, witin the vBulletin software is the option to alos provide a mobile version which is much easier to read on mobile devices.

I know this from a non-hobby (well, non-this-hobby at least) forum that I am on.

That would be great...
 

Hoping Leon would consider this...

Dear Leon,

With all due respect, I don't think your characterization of a 93% approval rating is completely accurate.

In fact, one could easily argue that the approval rating is actually 40% since most who voted that "neither politics or religion" should be included may also believe that this entire section is probably not in the best interests of the website.

If you are looking for the answer, then perhaps you should hold separate poll that asks that very question, rather than trying to answer multiple questions with a single poll question.

Just a thought...

Oh no you didn't!

+1

A mobile version would be fantastic. Really the only problem I have viewing the site on my iPhone is the "go to first new post" image-links being too small. I always have to pinch-zoom to be able to click them.

I'm all for multi-tasking but I am not sure I can drive, talk, text, play "Words With Friends" and read Net54 at the same time. :eek:

I almost missed this line beneath the 14-line block quote, which is a mis-/over-used and cumbersome feature of the new board.

Please try. For the sake of the family.

I have no problems reading this site on my iphone.

If I call Rob D. a "bolshevik," is that a political post?

lol so good. you're wasting your talent in ohio, should be writing a pilot or producing a sitcom out here.

Reading is less the issue than posting remotely. The old site was much easier to make comments on from a mobile device because of how it was set up.

a few rebuttals
 

1. You weren't in favor of the change to the new board s/w. That is why I used the term "virtually" when I said 100%. Your objection to the new technology is taken into account and noted.

2. I agree, I should have said that 93% approve OR DON'T really care one way of the other.

3. ON the concept of family....you are absolutely entitled to your collecting methodology and the lack of wanting to make friends in the hobby. As long as you don't harm anyone else, I have no issue with folks not wanting to have camaraderie, it's their choice. As far as value of the board, I think that is in the eye of the beholder, so your point is valid for you, not so much for me.

4. As far as changing a proven commodity, I feel it is my responsibility to always look to make our home/board a better place. So that is what I do for the masses, understanding there will be folks that don't like any decision that is ever made. Where you feel it will dilute the board, to have a place we can talk with our friends, I feel it will enhance it. We can politely agree to disagree on that aspect of it. You are pessimistic and I am extremely optimistic. With over 60 new members joining each and every month since the new s/w has been in place, I feel something must be going ok. My glass is usually have full though.

I do appreciate your views as it's always good to get the counterpoints in order to make more informed decisions. As for an Iphone app, we will look into that in the (near) future. However, we already have one person speaking up that says he has no problem with it. I do think it is probably needed long term.

best regards and happy collecting

Thanks. I think you understand my perspective.

Forum Runner
 

customization
 

My only concern is all of the customization we have done on this forum might not work with it. Let me let our techy person take a look, when he can, and if he thinks it will be ok then of course I have no problem with it....

When I spoke to another Vbulletin moderator and tech person, not long ago, they looked at our forum and said it was beyond their technical expertise as far as helping with some issues. I know we aren't the most advanced Vbulletin site but we are not a simple one either...thanks for sharing this link....regards

So I'm a sociopath
 

I resent being referred to as a sociopath simply because I voted against having this new forum section. This is exactly the sort of venom that has often turned me off to this forum. Since I don't post here very often, I'm my lack of presence will not be noticed.

John

Please save me the trouble of having to go back and re-read 130+ posts, and point me in the direction of whomever called you a sociopath. I will then find some niggling fault with their personality and verbally slap them around a little.


(Note: I don't care if there is a new section or not. I voted no religion or politics. I figure, if we're not talking cards, politics, or religion, there isn't much to say anyway. If that makes me a sociopath also, so be it. I'll wear it proudly.)


Edited to add: OK I found it. It was iggy, for god's sake! (Can I say that without making it a religious post?) Everything he says is tongue in cheek! If you're going to get riled up at someone, please get riled up at Rob D.

Heck, I didn't even know how to spell sociopath, so I had to google it. I thought it would make my point..........my post was meant in jest, just trying to make Leon realize that perhaps he might have hurt my feelings a little bit, by being so harsh on those that voted against Christopher Columbus sailing into the sunset. But I'm over it now and don't take it personally, like that wise philosopher Tom Brady said, "I've been called worst."

Lovely Day...

P.S. I'm over it now, simply because I came to the realization that it was a rigged election (just wanted to make that clear):)..........(please notice the smiley face, I'm not really in a mood for being banned).

Iggy
 

Iggy, my apologies if I hurt your feelings. I have always liked you and your posts, even though a couple of times, in several years, we might have disagreed on something. For the record I also profusely apologized in some private emails with Fred....for jumping too quickly. I sort of felt like I was being piled on and tested, at that moment. I am sure it's a bit difficult to understand but being where the buck stops isn't quite all it's cracked up to be, on many occasions. Other times I guess I get to be the life of the party :) best regards