Net54baseball.com Forums - Mastro Auctions Mastro's Stuff?

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)

- Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - Mastro Auctions Mastro's Stuff? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=127526)

I think it's always a bit sad when a collector sells his collection. Especially if he's doing so in order to remain one step ahead of the posse.

Well, Bill may be selling his collection to pay his legal bills. I'm sure they will be astronomical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian1961 (Post 835379)

Oh yeah, I suppose I better mention the whole reason I stuck my nose in this thread. Go to the Robert Edward Auction website, click on "LINKS", then go to the listing for the New York Daily News "I-Team Blog". From there scroll down to the article Michael O'Keefe penned on September 1, 2010 entitled, "Tumult continues in memorabilia world". Read it very carefully and scrutinize the quotes. One observation I had is that there was none of the usual parting shots from Mr. O'Keefe. Somehow, I would not be surprised if by reading it, a few of you will place a bar of soap in your mouth, and even delete a few comments.

Thank you for pointing this out. Very enlightening, especially the last paragraph of the statement:

Quote:

"There exists a small group of self-serving retailers, chat room participants and media reporters, with their right to free speech, who insist on initiating unwarranted, reckless and exaggerated rumors intended to strike an unnecessary offensive blow to our beloved industry. With the emergence of the Collectible Trade Association of America, these critics can now expect an appropriate and powerful response."

And a shortcut to the full article for anyone else interested:
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ite...emorabili.html

Tim, that last paragraph is actually unintentionally ironic and hilarious at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835492)

Tim, that last paragraph is actually unintentionally ironic and hilarious at the same time.

WOW! That is little critical of you! :eek:

You can now expect an appropriate and powerful response. :rolleyes:

We aren't chat room participants, we are a forum. Nothing to worry about guys...Nothing to see...move along now.

My only issue with some on our board is that they seem to take our opinions on issues as we are defending fraudulent activity. That is the farthest thing from the truth. No where and no time have I ever condoned fraudulent activity or said that perpetrators of said fraud should not be punished. No one on this board will get banned for leading the charge against fraud. However, just like I was quoted a few years ago in the newspaper article I do like to put things in perspective. If ALL I do is agonize over the hobby then it's probably not the place for me. If I can mostly have fun and still be looking out and reporting the bad stuff, then that is ok. To each their own though and I guess if someone wants to continually agonize over their hobby it's their right to do so. Rebuttal embellishment may start now........

ps...as for the "trade association"......the way it was trying to be done is silly on so many levels.

Agonize? Does it seem like I'm agonizing over Mastro and Allen being investigated for their rampant fraud? In contrast, every day is like a party! In fact, I spend my days holding my sides in while laughing so hard -- like Felix the Cat.

Rebuttal embellisment [sic] concluded.

Leon, can you kindly direct me to the "chat room participant board" Marshall was referencing??? I'm sorry, but it's plain as a pikestaff. I'm sure some Armani wearing association attorney is taking down notes as we speak. But not to worry, it is only done to ensure the integrity of this great industry.

New Net54 logo:
Attachment 24703

Lovely Day...

It's clear that Jeff is ready to fight....for his right....to paaaaaaaaaaaartyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

-Ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835503)

here he is

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835503)

Agonize? Does it seem like I'm agonizing over Mastro and Allen being investigated for their rampant fraud?

Yes. That is all you seem to think about. Or am I not allowed to have an opinion in the "Lichtman Universe". Look, if they committed fraud then they should pay their just dues, just like you or I. Can I make that anymore clear for you counselor?

Felix from the Topps 1972 in-action subset!

Lovely Day...

"Is this where the LINE STARTS for the Collector's Trade Association???"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 835508)

How about I get to determine what my own thoughts are? And it's not my universe, this is yours. You get to do whatever you want, including threatening to ban me. I don't have that great luxury. Not that I'd want it, obviously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835519)

Just being a total pain in my rear won't get you banned from the board. Getting way too personal and not stopping will, which you don't do. I have no problem with you leading the charge and of course, you can think whatever you want to. There has probably been less than 1 person a year banned and they went way overboard, personally.

Ring-a-ding-ding! While you guys have been chatting away, Bruce just scored another item for his collection.

And another!

Lovely Day...

This is more like it

Jeff, you are no Peter Chao or Marshall Barkman.

Is the fraud that is referred to in the hobby mostly directed at memorabilia, and not so much with cards? It seems like when I read about fraud, it seems to be mostly about sigs, jerseys, bats, balls, etc..

I know alot of people have said there are trimmed cards in high grade TPG holders, but other than that I don't seem to hear too much about "fraud" when it comes to cards. Am I wrong on how I'm reading all of this?

Thanks-Clayton

Clayton,

I think the reference is to fraud in the way some auctions are run (i.e. shill bidding).

Mike

Thanks Mike. I do understand that's what's going on, but when I went to the REA site to read the I-Team news there was an article about Salvatore Argo being busted for trafficking counterfeits. This got me thinking about the other frauds that are going on in the hobby, which seems to be memorabilia that is not authentic being sold as authentic.

Sincerely,Clayton

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835132)

Poor Bill. It will really kill him to watch his stuff being sold while he is unable to work the computer and place bids on his lots. Oh well, luckily Doug is still there.

I don't like to use this jargon much, but ROTFLMFAO!!!!!
My goodness, thank you Jeff. That did provide some much-needed jovialityness to my day.

I was thinking along those same lines when I read the original post, something along the lines of an addition to this excerpt:

"Bidding is scheduled to begin on Monday, November 22nd..."

Shill bidding will begin shortly thereafter.
:D:D:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835385)

So the alternative is that the laws of our country should not be applied to Bill Mastro and Doug Allen because such an application will cost all of us money? Apparently you and some other Net 54 members believe that. I don't. I'd rather live in a country where the laws are applied equally to all. If that means I'll lose some money, well, I'll be pointing a finger not at the federal government who is enforcing those laws but at the people who violated the laws. And take this from someone who earns a living fighting the government.

calvindog----I did not think I was coming across as if the laws of our land should not be applied to someone who is prominent or wealthy. Perish the thought.

In the first place many of you speak as if Mr. Mastro has already been found guilty of every single accusation. I'd rather live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Then again, all you have to do is say, "OJ". I also believe Bruno Richard Hauptmann was innocent, and our country's judicial system just wanted a culprit. Still, tarring and feathering Bill and Doug verbally based on what the FBI is investigating them for with the understanding a la innuendo that any and all levels of questionable activity must of a certainty have been duly conducted with a system as thorough and far-reaching as the Mafia is reckless. When the findings come out, then I'm sure the leather-lunged will belt it out. (EXCEPT ME; I'M GETTING TI-RED OF THIS. ONE OR TWO OF YOU ARE PROBABLY FEELING THE SAME WAY ABOUT ME!)

Furthermore, WHILE I IN NO WAY CAN SPEAK FOR EVERYONE WHO WON AN ITEM IN A MASTRO AUCTION, during the course of the years that I participated in a Mastro Auction, and won several items, never did I get the impression that I overpaid. In some instances, I almost won them cheaply. I can think of several choice pieces that I gave up on, only to truly regret not bidding higher, as the items have since skyrocketed.

However, I must admit that I never put in an up to or ceiling bid. Why? I have never trusted that strategy of winning an item. It would be too easy for someone at the auction house to shill. Now cal, that is my own philosophy of bidding for any item, from EVERY auction house. I will gladly give up a great night's sleep to keep on top of the auction action.

If charges of fraud are made and proven, yes, we'll have to 'pick up the pieces' as you say but perhaps it will be a first step in ridding our hobby of the rampant fraud which infects it. Imagine a hobby where you know that when a lot sells in an auction it really sold for that price, that you weren't defrauded along the way.

----Calvindog, you speak as if most of the items were cranked due to shilling. Granted, by all means, I agree with you in the respect that you should only pay what was fairly bid. I feel the buyer's premiums have gotten too high, but that's an industry issue. Imagine a Net 54 where people with financial interests tied to wrongdoers won't contort themselves in all kinds of positions in an effort to divert and stifle criticism of the wrongdoers. Cal-----just so you know, in the small chance you should care, I only have one minor item consigned to Legendary's November auction. I can. And at least until I'm banned from here I'll keep speaking out about these issues.

The major issue that I am concerned with is the doctoring of cards. Though I do not collect uniforms, the finding by the Baseball Hall of Fame that the uniform of Joe Jackson was a fake was pretty interesting. I think with the value of these sports artifacts at a salty level on par with the Dead Sea, the temptation for fraud of various sorts arises within all kinds of con artists.

We shall see but we shall see. Thanks to Leon's reassurance, we can all continue to rant and even praise in freedom. Thanks for your perspective, calvindog. I sincerely admire and appreciate a good watchdog. If I have the wrong idea, I do want to be set straight. ---Brian Powell

If that's the case, then lets forget all about Felix the Cat. Afterall, when was the last time he saved an industry? Jeff, I really do think that this little guy is more appropriate for you:

Attachment 24737

"Here I come to save the day!"

As far as the damage to the card market presumed from the fallout of the FBI investigation, I am with Jeff on this: if that is the price of cleaning house and deterring further misadventures, so be it. I am a collector--I don't plan to sell my cards so whether the cards are 'worth' any specific price is meaningless to me; it is just theoretical, like appreciation on my house. Besides, if prices drop markedly I can buy more cards. :D

Price drop = calamity = investor

Price drop = opportunity to pick up more stuff = collector

Adam, exactly. Which is why you won't be found twisting yourself into a pretzel with 'logic' trying to support the Mastros of this world, solely to protect either your investment, your possible future income, your potential job opportunity, or your good friends who have always been nice to you while they rob you blind.

It's not hard to pick out the people with the transparent agendas; just follow the dollars.

one trick ponies

If I have heard it from one board member I have heard it from a hundred.......So many one trick ponies on this board, especially lawyers from NY :p. I hope they enjoy the hobby as much as I do. Giddy up....

I'd rather be an honest pony than a Mastro monkey any day. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835830)

I'd rather be an honest pony than a Mastro monkey any day. :)

I've been called worse by better people.

The only problem I have with what Jeff is saying in this thread is that perhaps he is painting with too broad a brush in casting dispersions on a nameless few. Honestly, I think only a handful of people who read or lurk on this board have a vested or personal interest in what Legendary/Mastro does. Those who do though, should be taken behind the wood shed :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 835833)

I've been called worse by better people.

I agree.

I sure do wish I could get Roseanne Roseanadanna's take on all this. I'm sure she could clear it all up with just a few short and insightful comments. Is it too late to send condolences to her family?

It's always something!

OK, time for me to chime in on things, not that it matters....

I don't know Mr. Mastro, probably never will. If he broke the law, that is a decision he made personally and he should suffer the consequences.

Is it sad to me that he is selling his collection. No. Collections are always being sold , that is how we, as collectors acquire new items. It is an ever evolving circle. It is life, when we have wealth and health, we buy things. When we don't have those things, we sell.

To me the only times it is sad is a) selling because you are preparing your estate as your time is coming. or b) some greedy bitch is taking her half of something she doesn't care a damn thing about and just wants money!!

Now i don't understand why this thread has turned into hostility, i didn't read any posts that suggested attacks should be made and it turning personal. 1 of the two should just be the bigger man and not comment further, then the problem is solved. Or keep poking each other if you are enjoying it!

But its not making for good reading.