+1

So some people use the registry to checklist their sets. That's a useful tool.

It's easier than marking the checklist cards especially if they are slabbed.

If this has become a grading vs. raw thread.....

put my vote in for 'grading' 100%.

Its not that I care about a grade. Its not that I care about a registry.


It is completely about taking the arrogance and power away from individual dealers. My recollection of the hobby before TPG.... card dealers at shows were somewhat arrogant (all of their cards were 'mint' even if they were EX) - and they all were individual 'authorities'.

Since those days I have met many wonderful, honorable, and trustworthy hobby dealers.

But - I think it is important for a properly functioning hobby to separate the 'grading' from the dealers.

For the same reason - this is why I never like hearing that a grading company is actively involved in selling cards.


As far as SGC.....
it looks like way too many inside people are running for the exit in a short period of time. An eyebrow raiser at least.

I have only a handful of graded cards but believe third-party grading facilitates long-distance transactions, especially of more valuable cards. Internet photos are nice but no substitute for in-person review. Third-party grading, while imperfect, provides some assurance to buyers who might otherwise have honest disagreements with sellers as to the appropriate grade of a raw card.

Interesting perspective, Leon. I've got some sets on various registries, but I've never thought of myself as not being a card collector before.

To me, there are lots of different ways to collect. I could be a team collector, a player collector, a type collector, a set collector, a HOF collector, a graded card collector, a raw collector, a high-grade collector, a low-grade collector, a registry collector. It's all card collecting to me.

Registries have some cool components that have injected a lot of new enjoyment into the hobby for me. I'm not sure where my sets rank - probably pretty low - but I know I like having them on the net in a well-displayed sort of way. I also like the fact that by being on registries, I wind up meeting other people who collect the same sets I do - that's helped me fill in some spaces in my collection, and make a few good friends along the way. I like being able to track my progress when completing a set, and - thanks to mobile technology - to be able to access my sets remotely to see which cards I need. I like being able to scroll through scans on the SGC registry, and I like being able to see pop report data on the PSA registry.

I guess I never understood the desire on the part of some people to disparage ways of collecting that are different from their own. THAT is the only piece of this hobby that I don't get.

Sorry to hijack.

-Al

Well said Al.

One other thing I like is in the event of fire/theft, there is a way to quickly identify what I had.

It's amazing how some are quick to slam or criticize someone for having slabbed cards, but it seems those same people have some in plastic.

r/
Frank

For the record
 

For the record I was not trying to disparage folks collecting on the registry, even though it could be taken that way. I just think it's a different kind of collecting, and at the top, doesn't seem to be about the cards as much as the plastic. Sorry if I offended anyone.

For the record too, most of my valuable cards are slabbed.....I have nothing against slabbing and authentication.

al c
 

to each his own, in the area of collecting, makes perfect sense to me, particularly when we add the qualifier---as long as we treat each other well in the midst of our collecting.
i know of a curmudgeonly professor type(quite handsome it is told) who actually frames every single
type card which he collects and then displays them on wall after wall.

To each his own--with qualifier.
all the best,
barry

This thread has gone off in as many different directions as the Boston T Green Line :)

So I will comment on Registry collecting. I will never participate and that is a personal choice but I like to buy graded when the registry competition dries up, the price falls and then crack them out to put nice looking cards in my sets. Not 9's but nice looking 6, 7 and 8's on 50's and 60's. I think because of the number, some people will take a worse looking 8 over a 7 etc and I am there to pick up the scraps. Just a general observation.

The registry is a passion and that is always good for our hobby if used in a positive way and I agree with prior posters in this thread that it can be used in other ways besides the number on the plastic.

All due respect, Leon, I think you're mixing registry collecting with high-grade card investing, and I think those are two very, very different things.

There are cert buyers out there, for sure, and I agree that with those people, they sometimes seem to be as concerned with the number and the GPA than the cards in their set. When I encounter people like that, it makes me think of those guys with showrooms full of classic automobiles that they'll never drive.

But the overwhelming majority of people I've met who use the registries to supplement their collecting are passionate, knowledgeable card collectors.

For the record, I don't see anything inherently "wrong" with either approach, BTW. I have a collection of vinyl records. It numbers about 4000-5000. I am a terrible record collector. I have no idea what I am doing. When I buy used records, I want them to be in great condition - so that I can go home and play them. I don't care about their rarity, I'm not trying to complete anything, I have no focus, I'm just buying stuff I think I'd like. I have 1970s punk records and 1960s opera records, rare 7" vinyl and mass-produced Readers Digest compilations. "True" record collectors would cringe if they saw my records, mostly because I don't know how to collect like they do. When I spin them on the turntable, though, I'd suspect that the music moves me in the same way as it does the "true" collector.

-Al

Barry, that's such a coincidence - I know a professor who collects in very much the same way.

Can't be the same guy, though, because I understand the professor I know is quite ugly.

-Al

al c
 

when you get a chance, do put me in touch with him.
i'll make sure the two get together so they can enjoy those great pieces of
cardboard and fabulous discussions of heideggerean epistemology.
all the best, ole friend.
always great hearing from you.

barry

Hi Joe- I know what you are saying and TPG does take some of that power away that less scrupulous dealers had over collectors. And I don't doubt that certain high value cards should be graded. But now that power has shifted to the graders and authenticators, and the balance is a little skewed again. I would like to see more collectors learning the nuances of grading themselves, and I would like to see more raw vintage sets, such as a T206 in Good to Very Good condition.

I for one think the graders wield an awful lot of power.

I agree 100% with what Al said. I've got some Registry sets that help me to keep track of the cards, to know what my average condition of the cards in a set are, etc. And it allows me to be in touch with others who collect the cards I do. I also have the great majority of my cards not in any Registry set -- but they are slabbed for a variety of reasons. And I love my lower graded rare cards at least as much as my high graded Registry cards.

As for the argument that the guys who are looking to buy high end graded cards are not true lovers of the cards, I'd ask them if they've spoken to Don Spence about baseball. You can actually love the game, love the cards and, at the same time, want the highest graded cards possible. Really.

As for TPG's and the plastic, I think they'll always be necessary especially for prewar. I think I have a fairly good idea about grading, but I have a hard time authenticating cards (see my posts asking if various cards are authentic). I know the general rules for authentication, but if it's a higher value card, I sleep a lot better at night if I know a reputable TPG has authenticated the card. This is the same with altered and trimmed (and rebacked) cards, I am not good at seeing this unless it is really obvious.

Regarding registries, I think they are a really good checklist function as others have mentioned. This is really useful if you are a master player set collector, as the registry can help you figure out the wacky cards for the player you are missing.

I have quite a few sets on the registry and find it beneficial for the reason most have mentioned. I have been offered and made some great trades because of people contacting me through the registry. I have also found out information from those collectors that I would not have found out anywhere else.

In my experience, even the "good" dealers and auction houses tended to overgrade their cards at least that was what I found when I submitted most of my raw pre-war purchases to SGC and PSA for grading.

+1
JimB

Well said Al.
JimB

I have a vinyl collection too that sounds similar to yours, though not as big. I also just buy what I like and am very unsophisticated as a collector. The most I have spent on a vinyl album was $100 for a rare 1st edition of John Coltrane's outside-LSD induced-big band experiment, Ascension. It is transcendent!
JimB
P.S. Well preserved vinyl sounds better than any digital format too.

And here we have the birth of The Arnold Group.

I don't think most graded card collectors collect for the competition. I have 500 or so sets in the PSA set registry and there is not one of these I am actually competing to have the best set. Its fun to see where I stand on the registry but I just like to have all my sets in psa 8 or better and look sharp....and I am a passionate as anyone about collecting. There is really no difference in the pssion that graded card collectors and raw card collectors bring to the hobby...its just that graded card collectors are smarter(just kidding on that last statement).

Jim

Hey Jim
 

I know you are very passionate about your collecting. I admire that very much. I certainly didn't mean my comment way above, the way it came out. I just gave my opinion, concerning some collecting I have seen, but also didn't mean to put down the way anyone collects. We had a very nice, fairly long chat at the National and I hope we can do it again at the next one. If you aren't doing anything Friday night you should come over to the Net54baseball dinner. It will be a lot of fun and I would love to see you there.

Its cool Leon. I was in Dallas Thursday. I was going to give you a call to come down to the Mansion at Turtle Creek for a drink. I have never seen so many good looking ladies in a bar in my life. Also had a terrific meal at Ocean Prime. Two thumbs up for Dallas.

Also Leon--appreciate you pointing me to rarites sold by you and others. Love the cards I bought in your last auction. They are adding a cool dimension to my collection. I love prewar cards but beyond the 10-15 most popular sets I don't know a lot about the sets themselves.

All the best,

Jim

I used to be a "raw card only, I hate the slabs" guy years ago but now I have an equal number of cards graded as ungraded. I love having the sets like T205, T206, T207, T212s etc. ungraded, raw in pages, all together. On the other hand, all my caramel cards and M cards are slabbed for several reasons: I wanted them protected, they are easier to re-sell when I pass on and my family inherits them, plus I like the way they look, especially in SGC holders. I likewise have all my T210s graded and slabbed, mostly in SGC holders for eye appeal.
As far as registry sets go, several of my sets of slabbed cards are in all 3 holders- SGC, PSA, and GAI, so they will never make it to #1 without massive cross-grading. That's fine. I do not employ the registry sets as a compulsive drive for the best set, I use them to help identify and prove value in case my cards are ever stolen. It's something we should all think about.

anthony n and tbob
 

no such births here, anthony!!!
just silly playfulness with ole al who i'm always glad to see around here.

bob,
i'm relieved that you still have the gai's. I've been holding onto mine ever since you and I agreed ages ago that gai was pretty good for a period of time, which admittedly seems like ancient history now.
I have the monster in mostly sgc, a few dozen of psa, 2 or 3 dozen of gai,
and 2 or 3 bvg's. They've basically been 'protectors' for me and never felt the need to spend the bucks for the sake of homogeneity,etc. I don't think i've ever sold a card myself---traded once in a blue moon.
When i saw that you'd sent 26 or so of your gai's to sgc(the old address)
i began wondering if i'd best put my thinking cap back on.

all the best,
barry

Graded vs Ungraded
 

Thanks guys, for some very interesting posts. We've toasted certain dealers on this very site and lauded them for their friendliness, customer service, etc., but over the 20+ years I've been collcting, I've found that natural human instinct is that if you're selling the card raw, it tends to be graded higher than it will semi-objectively, by the grading companies, even by guys we've given the highest commendations to. I've purchased '57 Frank Robinsons with an indentation across the center of the card graded near mint, '63 Musial's graded NMt-Mt by mail whose centering was dubious, and with a stain on the back, and a '58 Jim Brown rookie supposedly in NMt-Mt with the back portion scratched off by these same guys. Human nature is human nature, with regard to grading--the seller wants it to be a higher grade simply to make more $$$!

You still have to buy the card, not the slab, as either Jeff or Barry have stated here, but the authentication process becomes more difficult if buying raw, since presumably (hope, hope!) the professional graders have been able to better keep up with restoration techniques than we have as collectors (although my position is that there have been too many 9's and 10's in the pre-'60's area in recent years, which are restored cards that are simply slipping past the graders, and I personally would not be buying such condition rarities without additional insurance). I have read that Jim Crandell will not touch such a high $$ specimen unless Kevin Saucier gives it his personal stamp of approval, and I wouldn't be surprised that some day Kevin starts his own business and starts doing that on a large (and profitable) scale. Maybe Jim isn't so far off on his last remark, especially with the latter qualification. We've come a long way, and so have the card doctors since the '90, when basically all you had to do was bring a high-powered loupe along to shows and take a careful look at the edges to determine originality.

I also agree with Jeff that I enjoy my considerably rare but lower condition cards in slabs as much as those which are more common in higher grades.

Would love to hear your feedback.

Larry

.

Just FYI, but my latest submission was mailed to the PO Box and delivered to SGC on Friday (3/25). So everything is still working from that stand point.

I know that the mail is set up to forward for one year, but the same Post Office where the PO Box was located processes deliveries to the street address, so I'd imagine that if they see an SGC package, it will be placed with street deliveries regardless of how it is addressed. There might be a one or two day delay on a few packages--which is unfortunate--but until the address update is properly implemented by being removed from the all aspects of the site and reprinted on all invoices, the delay might be unavoidable.

Brian

brian d
 

many thanks!
you still offer the best of customer service even when you don't work at the
place anymore.
kudos to you again and again

all the best,
barry

.

Who'll be in charge of the sheep dip?

reassurance
 

so I'd imagine that if they see an SGC package, it will be placed with street deliveries regardless of how it is addressed.--now that sounds reassuring....

adam
 

i'll bring them Herbridean once, but after that they're strictly on their own!
all the best,

barry

That's how forwarding orders are handled. The letter/package is machine sorted to the proper branch, then manually sorted into the route order by the carrier. Except for junk mail which is usually already in route order.

Any vacation hold mail or mail to be forwarded gets removed there. If the forward is in the same branch it would be handed off to the carrier for that route. Forwards outside the same branch get a label and are sent back to the regional processing center. The boxes are a "route" so the person handling the po boxes would make a bin of SGC mail and give it to the carrier. I'm not sure if it would get relabeled, probably not.

Steve B

ZING!!! :eek::eek::eek: