Phil- I'm not sure I should be the one to make that call, although I don't mind trying. I would certainly lean more towards reviewing controversial calls at the end of a game. I don't think what happens in the first inning is as critical as what happens in the ninth (and I admit even that is debatable). I would also permit a manager at least one challenge during the game, similar to what is allowed in the NFL. And I think there is nothing wrong for the umpires to make the decision that they feel in the best interest of the game they need to go to the videotape.

There is no question in my mind that after the call last night they would have taken the initiative to review it, if the rules allowed them. Yes, it would make these painfully interminable games even longer, and I hate that. But I would rather see an extra five minutes added to a game to avoid what happened last night.

And I spent maybe five minutes on this, it certainly needs more time and consideration.

Rick- according to what was announced on the Yankee game this afternoon, the commissioner is not rushing to judgment and will review the play in more detail. That includes interviewing people, whomever they may be. But that may not be the official word.

MLB Press Release/Statement
 

Selig played his cards right. As bad a call as it was, he backed the
umpires call. Here's MLB's official statemet from last night's game.
I see instant replay coming soon......

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

While I disagree with the commissioner's decision, I understand why he made the call and I agree with his right to make it. What I truly can't understand is why this clown is still the commissioner. The sooner baseball dumps Bud, the better ...

On any other day, baseball fans who want instant replay would be pointing to the horrible call late last night that gift wrapped the Mariners a 2-1 win over the Twins in extra innings due to a blown call on a 3rd out groundball which clearly made it to the shortstop covering for a forceout long before the runner arrived.
As far as Selig's statement, although I am glad he didn't reverse the call, for those of you who wanted it overturned, did you really think slick Bud would do it? Has he ever done one thing right as commissioner? Ever?

after hearing Joyce's apology, I am sure he would want it overturned....

but in hindsight, he was awarded an awfully nice Corvette convertible as a consolation prize!

i think too much time has passed and now the bad call must stand.

no reversal.

if you want to reverse calls, try replay, otherwise play with the rules that are in place.

Do you think Bud ever loses track of all committees he's formed to study MLB issues?

What Does Selig Do Exactly?
 

Mrs. Claypool: Mr. Driftwood, three months ago you promised to put me into society. In all that time, you've done nothing but draw a very hansome salary.
Driftwood: You think that's nothing, huh? How many men are drawing a handsome salary nowadays. Why you can count them on the fingers of one hand, my good woman.:p

Night at the Opera.:)

Correct, Barry
 

And I'm sure you understand the point of my drift.:)

evidence for instant replay in baseball!

Correct call, or desired outcome?
 

It was a really, really bad call - and everyone agrees. Is the call for "Selig to make it right" REALLY a desire to get the call correct, or is the desire to make sure the pitcher gets a Perfect Game (albeit, one that he deserved)?

Let's say conditions were the same as last night, the batter hits a ball which is fielded by the 1st baseman, who flips to the pitcher covering 1st. "Out!" calls the ump, and the celebration begins - a Perfect Game and the pitcher is carried off the field! Then someone looks at a replay which clearly shows that the runner was safe at first, and anyway, even though the pitcher had the ball in his glove, he never stepped on the bag.

Would there be a public outcry to change the call and get it correct? And take away a Perfect Game after the celebration? If not, why not? If the goal is to get it correct - and not to achieve a desired outcome - what is the difference in these two games?

I don't think the results of last night's game can be changed, unless we're ready to accept a change in the other direction.

Today, I had lunch with Braves' GM Frank Wren, who watched last nights' game. As he put it, "There were obviously no other runners on base, the batter was either safe at first (and not trying to go to second), or he was out (game over). Joyce made the call, but as soon as Leyland came out to question it, all that needed to be done was for the umpires to confer and come up with a definite answer. They didn't do that, and Joyce gets all the blame. All this could have been avoided it the umps had just talked to each other, but they didn't. What a shame." Derryl Cousins is the Crew Chief of that umpire crew, and I haven't heard his name mentioned once.

Tom- good points, and if it happened the other way, with a perfect game awarded because the ump missed the call, there would still have been a small outcry from the fans, but not on the national level it achieved. This story seemed to transcend baseball, and became a parable about how good sportsmanship is such a rare commodity in today's world. No question some unique things came out of it, but bottom line is a perfect game is a once in a lifetime achievement that few major leaguers have ever achieved. And a humble and not that well known pitcher had one and had it taken away.

I would just say that it wasn't such a bad call if you put yourself in Joyce's shoes. The ball never hit the meat of the glove to make the audible "whack". Instead, it bounced around a little bit. Without the sound to compare to, you go off of what you see, which isn't easy at all. So I disagree with the view that it was an easy call. He was clearly safe from the replay, but it was not such an easy call, in my opinion.

Also, I heard an umpire on the radio today say that umpires rarely conference over a first base call like that. One ump is in position, and the other umps hardly ever conference and overturn a call like that.

It was an easy call in the sense that Joyce never claimed he considered a bobble, and never considered a swipe foot tag that might have missed the base. He claimed he was convinced that the runner beat the throw. The call was gross incompetence.

also
 

BTW, I don't put that much stock in Joyce's contriteness, especially as he had little choice in t he face of the evidence. To me he can apologize until he's blue in the face, he should still be suspended. Please don't give me that everyone makes mistakes schtick. This was the final out of a ballgame, and a potential perfect game. His attention should have been as acute or morseo than any other time in the game. His job was simple, and he blew the call. There should be consequences, remorseful or not as he might be.

If you are in an important position for your company or, better still, your profession and, at the height of an important decision, you blow it, you should expect to be fired or disciplined in some fashion. Period. If you don't like the pressure of being in that position, find another line of work. Bottom line, you embarrassed the game. Man up and apologize--fine, you did. Now man up and take some punishment too.

I'm not saying the guy should be accosted in the streets, his kids ridiculed at school or his pension taken away, but that call was inexcusable and incompetent, and he should be penalized for it (BTW, he flat out blew another call in the 8th that led to 2 Tiger runs--is this guy horseblip or what?). Seems like some time off without pay might help him become more focused and disciplined, if not, move on and let someone else do the job.

For those who say Selig does NOT have the power to overturn the cal, I say BS!!!

The Commish has the power to ban guys for life (Jackson, Cicotte, Rose, etc).

The Commish has the power to overturn trades (Vida Blue to the Reds, other Oakland A's to different teams).

The Commish has the power to suspend All Star Games.

If the Commish can do all of those things, which can affect more than one person and more than one season then he can EASILY overturn a CORRECTABLE call.

David

For those who say the Pine Tar incident doesn't count. Well, yes it does.

Brett was reinstated because the Yankees KNEW his bat had too much pine tar on it but did NOT tell the Umpires when they first knew about it. Nope, they waited until he did something which negatively affected them to alert the Umpires about it. The Ump then ruled Brett Out and then the AL President reinstated him and ruled the last four Outs to be replayed.

Notice how an AL President ruled on something important like this and NOT the Commish.

Also notice how four Outs of a game had to be replayed which could have resulted in a different ending.

Changing the Hit to an Out (the correct call) would NOT affect the outcome or ending of that game.

David

For those who say that if the ruling were changed for this game then they might also ahve to go back and change things like the 1985 WOrld Series, I say WRONG!!!!

Even though they had the technology for replays back then, there was NO RULE in the books concerning the use of instant replay. Now, however, there IS a rule for use of instant replay (concerning Home Runs) and since there has been precedent set for changing outcomes of games based on those replays, it is MUCH easier for Selig to make this (correct) change.

The reason he doesn't is because he does NOT have the balls to do it.

In 1993, the Commish's Office ruled that steroids and other PED's were against the rules but the Players Union didn't agree. Selig had a LONG time to stand up to the Union but DIDN'T. It took Congress getting into the act before the Players Union budged and made the playing field mroe fair again.

Selig is against instant replay. So when a call like this comes about (one that HAVING instant replay would keep him from having to rule on) he wusses out and just says no to changing a ruling.

SPINELESS!!!

Now Galarraga never gets into the record books as having thrown a perfect game and Joyce has to forever live with people reminding him he screwed up.

Don Denkinger and his Wife was interviewed about the missed call in the 1985 World Series and they talked about the hate mail and threatening phone calls they received afterward, some more than a year after the incident happened. They also talked about people remembering him blowing the call years after it happened (when they met him in person).

Heck, ESPN is bringing it up NOW, 25 years after it happened.

David

The easy route would be for Selig to reverse the call as that is what the public is clamoring for. Selig did the right thing here.

Denkinger's call was nothing like this one, to me. That world series play was bang-bang. This one was BANG (pause a beat or two) bang. A no doubt out. I think Galarraga, Joyce, and the fans of baseball would like to see this reversed. So if no one loses out, why not switch it now?

what what what?
 

Now I know I've had too many beers, as I agree with this poster 100%. Agreeing with Selig and Lichtman at the same time is enough to shake one's self-assuredness to the core. :eek:

A doctor not giving pain medicine or additional treatment to a dying patient might be the easy thing to do but is it the RIGHT thing to do?

A defense attorney telling his client to plead guilty as fast as he can might be the easy thing to do but is it the RIGHT thing to do?

Selig not having the balls to make a controversial decision is easy but is it right?

Honestly, WHO is hurt by him overturning the call?

The pitcher gets his perfect game.

The Umpire gets a load of regret (and threats for himself and his family) off his shoulders.

The Umpires get a break and some good PR (after having a REALLY crappy couple of weeks).

Sure, the batter loses a hit BUT, if you watch the replay, after he crossed the bag even HE was shocked he was called safe AND even he admitted, after looking at the tape, that he was Out. He also said that with the game the way it was and on a close play, he didn't expect the Ump to call him safe. So it sounds like if the call were reversed, the batter wouldn't have that big of a problem with it.

To recap, Selig ahs the power to change the call but not the balls to do it.

If changed, the pitcher would get his perfect game, the outcome of the game wouldn't change and the Umpire would get some relief.

Also, NOT changing the ruling just gives more kids reason to NOT like baseball. They can see an injustice has been done (yet Major League baseball, I am SURE, will continue to barrage them with messages that say to "do the right thing"), yet when it comes to the powers that be doing "the right thhing" they don't.

Also, it gives minority kids in urban areas something else to think about as far as being discriminated against. Gallaraga has a foreign last name and speaks with a Latin accent. How many kids do you think are out there now feeling that his skin color and nationality had something to do with Selig NOT overturning the call? I say quite a few. Just think about what guys like Milton Bradley, Torii Hunter and a few others have recently said about racism and discrimination in the Majors. Just look at the hype that surrounds the Civil Rights game every year.

The kids see what MLB is trying to project yet hear what some of the players are saying and see a disconnect. So, whether they are right or not, some kids probably feel if the pitcher's name was John Jones and he was a white American, then Selig would have reversed the call.

David

This turn of events does not bode well for you.

So you're playing the race card....on this??? Here's some advice: don't. You really do a disservice to the people you are claiming to try to help with this argument.

Our very thought, Mercury. Were all the umps in that game dazed and confused? Given the historic, melodramatic circumstances, did none of them have the rudimentary awareness to huddle up and consider overturning the blown call? Obviously not, and they just left Joyce to twist in the wind.

Maybe it's just that improved video technology in recent years better shows how often the umps are wrong -- and it's not like there weren't some howlers over the years -- but we don't remember there being, back in the day, nearly as many bad calls, or as many outrageously bad calls, as there are now. What do they teach these guys in Umpire School?

Much as we hate the idea of reducing the "human element" and having video review in baseball (it's certainly a mixed bag of success and farce in the NFL and NHL), we think Barry's on to something with that suggestion. There's no "slippery slope" or "Pandora's box" of endless replays and complications, as some have suggested, if a simple one-challenge option (or two -- or three as in the NFL, but surely no more than that) is instituted. Save it for a close call on a big play in the late innings of a close game -- was a tag missed on a rally-killing double play? Was a walk-off homer at the pole fair or foul? -- or waste it if you want on a ball-strike call on a 1-1 pitch to the leadoff batter in the 2nd inning. Manager's choice.

You want to review balls and strikes now? That's not going to ever happen and it shouldn't. Just a very bad idea.

Or they can see the maturity, dignity, and respect for the game that Galaragga displayed.

He did look shocked and in disbelief over the call, but he didn't go into an expletive laced tirade directed at the umpire like some might have.

He went back to work and finished his job, the job that he is paid to do.

At the end of the day he went home, knowing that he did his job well. He went home knowing in fact that regardless of what the record books say and whether he receives formal recognition for it or not, that he did pitch a perfect game. He went home knowing that he did his job the absolute best that it could be done. He knows it, and everbody with an interest in baseball knows it, as do many with no previous interest in baseball.




THANK YOU!

I am in favor of giving him the perfect game.

I am opposed to replay.

This is not a slippery slope, and it does not set a precedent.

Next time the 27th out of a perfect game is botched, and everybody including the runner and umpire are in agreement that it was botched, that will be the next time that a ruling of changing this outcome could be used as a precedent.

But, as timzcardz says, the fact that it won't go in the record book does not change what he did. If I had been at that game, I would have left ready to die happy, knowing that I had seen a perfect game, with an extra out thrown in for good measure.

Harvey Haddix and Ernie Shore were probably getting bored talking to each other, now they can be a threesome.

Doug

For the record Pedro Martinez once pitched a nine inning perfect game but both teams were scoreless. He allowed his first hit in the 10th inning. Isn't that pretty much what Haddix did (in three less innings, of course)?

I forgot about that Martinez game. Now I'm wondering if I forgot anybody else, but I'm too lazy to google it.

Doug

There was also a weather-shortened no hitter as well as an 8 inning no hitter (the pitcher was losing at the time).

Dean Chance pitched a five inning perfect game and got credit for a complete game victory. Should that count?

Andy Hawkins!!! I remember listening to this game on the radio with my dad.

Hawkins was with the New York Yankees when he pitched a no hitter against the Chicago White Sox in Chicago on July 1, 1990. Going into the bottom of the 8th inning, the score was 0-0. Incredibly, after he retired the first two batters, three errors and two walks allowed four runs to score and the Yankees wound up losing 4-0. At the time Hawkins was credited with a no hitter as he had pitched a complete game although his complete game was only 8 innings. The following season, the definition for a no hitter was changed to require a pitcher to pitch at least a 9 inning complete game to be credited with a no hitter. Since Hawkins' complete game was only 8 innings, he lost credit for the no hitter.

Here's a simply incredible no-hitter achievement that will never be matched:

In 1965 Jim Maloney pitched a 10 inning no-hitter against the Mets, but gave up two hits in the 11th and lost 1-0. He recorded 18 strikeouts in the game.

Amazing as that was, just a month later he pitched another 10 inning no-hitter against the Cubs. This time he won 1-0. He had 10 walks and 12 strikeouts.

So within one month's time Maloney pitched two 10-inning no-hit games, winning one and losing one. It will never be duplicated.

Selig is a TOOL
 

Bud Selig is a wimp and would never overturn anything because he would then be exposed by the media for the money sucking (18mill a year) dope that he is. I live here in Detroit and I think as many people dislike Selig now as much as they do Joyce.

It would be madness for Selig to overrule an umpire's judgment call on the field.