Michael,
 

is that the back of Schlitzer?

revisiting
 

Bob, is it a coincidence that out of the 300 E90-1 cards for sale on ebay right now, there are ZERO Shaded back variation cards for sale...

there are no R Marquard, J sheckard, R demmitt, Tenney, H wagner batting (ALL SIMILAR RED BACKGROUNDS) for sale!

there are no Bob green , hooks wiltse, Froome, Roy Thomas (all Blue green with mountains) for sale!

this is no coincidence....it is because these shaded back cards were one of (if not the last) series produced for the E90-1 series (also the rarest)..

you cannot call it a "printing error or defect" if it only appears in certain cards, that happen to be the "tougher" cards also....it would be a "random printing error" IF it occured in ALL or MOST cards, which it in fact DOESNT....IT NEVER IS SEEN IN THE COMMON CARDS....again, It IS NEVER SEEN In The ComMon Cards!!

so, it may appear on the surface (no pun intended) that this "shaded back" variation that I discovered is a printing mistake, but in fact it reveals one of the more rare print runs that occured between 1909-1911....just use the cards for sale at this very moment as a hint....

especially fun is if you line these "shaded variations" up next to eachother, they all look very similar, YET look AMAZINGLY different to the rest of the set!

Enjoy this 100 year old discovery, a gift from me to the collecting World!

wish they would have put E90-1 on this blank back McLean :) ......the E90-1 McLean is one of the toughest in the set (high book is $5,000).
IMO all the blank backed cards like these are E92s, even though this could be a E101 as well :)
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/19...cleansgc10.jpg

Re: revisiting
 

Scott,
I applaud you for your research and effort, but I strongly disagree with your conclusions. Some of the "confirmed" subjects with the shading are common E90-1s; In particular Keeler (pink), Wagner (bat), Harry Davis, and Miller. In fact none of the cards mentioned should be considered among E90-1s rarest. Until we find a Mitchell (Cin), Walsh, Duffy, Shean, etc. we can't conclude that only the rarest (last series) of E90-1s were printed with this "variation". It is incredibly unlikely that the 28 or so subjects mentioned in this thread were printed on the same sheet. For instance, I believe G. Davis to be a card which was discontinued early and Willis obviously a much later issue (note the trade during the off season after 1909). No way they were printed on the same sheet. I'm inclined to agree with those who suggest that this is just a printing anomaly that occurred on multiple sheets.

" Ed you said "in now way were these printed on the same sheet.." why are you so sure about this?

wouldnt the artists and American Caramel Printing executives use one artist (and therefore noticably simialr styles)

the RED background cards with the shading all look VERY Similar, and are dfiferent than anyting else in the set...why assume these similar cards (sheckard, marquard, wagner batting, demmitt, tenney) were printed in different print runs....to me is seems obvious (and intuitive) that they would have all been made at the same time (also the color red is very VERY similar in all these)

i think we need to step back and take a look at the artwork and background color of this set...it may reveal more than you think....

hint hint...all the know rarities have a textured colored background not found in any other cards , again suggesting simialr style and colored cards were made together.

Re: revisiting
 

To a certain extent, the styles play a role in the "series" of E90-1. There are several other variables that are more important. I think the same artist was responsible for most of the artwork. It doesn't necessarily follow (and can't possibly be) that all of his work was released all at once.

I'm not sure what you mean by "textured colored background", but I again disagree with the contention that background colors found on the rarities can't be found on commons. I'll cite just the two examples that come quickly to mind: Duffy/Chase (and several others) and Walsh/Dygert. There are others.

Of course, I'm not certain about the G. Davis and Willis cards. One really can't be certain about most things regarding E90-1. But an examination of their playing records make it very unlikely that they were produced at the same time.

On the surface of it, the five cards you mention could have been printed on the same sheet. But how then do we account for the discrepancy in rarity? Demmitt and Tenney are significantly more difficult than Marquard and Sheckard and miles tougher than Wagner (batting).

ED
 

marquard and wagner may be more available because they are HOF's..but those red cards i feel, have the same degree of toughness....

why arent there any SHADED backs for sale out of the 300 on ebay?

as for the rare card TEXTURED background..i think its very easy to see....use the peaches graham as an example, also the bemis, ed walsh, gibson back view, and Mclean, although different colors, they all have the same (speckled/textured background)...its clearly different than the other 100 or so cards....scans would help i guess..

the lobert also shows this textured/stippled/speckled style

Re: revisiting
 

No way Tenney and Demmitt are as common as Wagner and Marquard. The ratio is probably something like 10:1.

There aren't any shaded backs on ebay because they're scarce. That doesn't mean that any card with a shaded back is a difficult subject. The four examples I cited in an earlier post are proof of that. None of the cards "confirmed" in this thread Are among the most difficult in the set. And several, most notably the Keeler (pink) are rather common.

Now I understand what you mean by "textured". I refer to them in today's modern terminology as "pixilated". Those subjects include Mitchell (Cin), Sweeney (Bos), Graham, Gibson (back), Young (Cle), Duffy, and a few others I'm sure. Interestingly, there are cards from other series done in this same style; notably E92 Collins and E90-3 Schulte. Bemis, Walsh and McLean are not examples of this style. And yes, all of the above E90-1s are quite scarce.

ed
 

looking at my walsh noww and it looks pixilated to me...just like the peaches....the light yellow makes it more difficult to see however....

we are getting somewhere now....im telling you. al the raritites in this set have textured backgrounds that are very different from all the other cards ...that is the biggest hint that art style and ink color/tone means something...add in the fact that some have rare shaded backs, and it even makes more sense

better late
 

Was not interested in this thread when it came out last year but have since begun collecting the set and am only a few cards away. Cards with shading are Butler, G. Davis, Fromme, Irwin, Miller, Richie, Schlitzer, Scheckard, and Thomas batting. Will leave it up to the scholars to determine any significance.

ebay hasnt seen a roy thomas batting in 4 months...

a sneaky tough card...

G davis, pink keeler, and irwin i would like to see scans if you could.... all others u mentioned i agree and have example myself...

again, whenever a card is seen in a shaded version, it ALWAYS is seen also as a clean regular version....but interestingly BOTH versions are tough....

i stand by my assessment that no shaded versions are found in a COMMON card....

hint hint....LOOK FOR CARDS WITH MOUNTAINS IN THE BACK...that was an artistic touch that was added later to add more drama to these cards......interestingly, there are very few if any MOUNTAINS in T206 cards.....


E90-1 backgrounds blow away T206 backgrounds!

might the E90-1 American Caramel set have the most diverse, colorful, unique and interesting collection of backgrounds of any pre war set?????

ed,
 

you said "Some of the "confirmed" subjects with the shading are common E90-1s; In particular Keeler (pink), Wagner (bat), Harry Davis, and Miller"------- NONE of these are CONFIRMED BY ME or anyone else..it was posted these had a "touch" of shading which is not the same...

just went over this entire thread, i see no evidence of Keeler Pink or davis shaded...

Brian made a post on page 3 were he listed some of his cards that had a "touch" of shading...the keeler pink was listed there....this does not mean it is a variation....

ED, what cards do you think CANT be shaded version because they were too common?

Just curious, thanks for your response!

Pop Report check reveals more!
 

just checked the PSA pop report again,and it sure confirms the shaded versions!

cards found with shaded version

group A (solid red background, action posses )

Richie 10 on the Pop report, yes only 10!!!
Sheckard 11
Tenney 11
Demmitt 11
Pastorius 12
Marquard HOF 22
Wagner batting HOF 28

amazingly similar pop reports!!!! shows how rare and tough these cards are ...raise your hand if you are surprised to see the pop reorts on these are less than those listed rarities below!!!!

as a comparative reference to KNOWN rarities:

mike mitchell 18
peaches graham 18
larry mclean 11
hans lobert 12
ed walsh 20
H duffy 16

(joe jackson 58)

my discovery may change the way we look at E90-1 RARITIES...[Peaches graham are so numerous, i need a RICHIE! POP 10..and maybe i can get a shaded version Richie!! POP 3]
this is fun!

and
 

Confirmed Group B (Blue and green background with mountains)

roy thomas 14 pop only!!!!
wiltse 15
froome 17
schlitzer 14
camnitz 16
groom 13

Again all VERY SIMILAR POP NUMBERS that are far less than the COMMONS which many have over double and triple the amount of graded examples....

If one of these shaded cards in groups A or B had a POP report dissimilar to the others, then that could blow a hole in the theory...BUT since they have uncanningly similar POP reports, it supports my theory.....


comparative pop reports:
summers 43
Bailey 36
f clarke 42
h howell 39
mullin 38
hartzell 34
sweeney 36
criger 32

HOF's
Cobb 114
Lajoie 54
wallace 52
joss portrait 59
bender 44
HR baker 58
jennings 57
mathewson 66
cy Young 55

ED, i dont agree with your assessment that Wagner batting or marquard are "common" ...they have half the amount of graded cards of most other HOF in this set (1/3 less than many)...they are actually 2 of the rarest (POP wise) HOFs found in this set! Known HOF toughies Tris speaker has pop report of 14, and Cy Young Cleveland has 16 POP report...so POP 22 is in the ballbark of these known HOF rarities!!!!

in this set, HOFers are graded about twice as often as a similar non HOF counterpart...this appears true on the POP report and on the Group A shaded cards (wagner and marquard have almost exactly double the graded version of sheckard, demmitt, tenney, pastorius)

it all makes perfect sense !!
wow im having fun!
can anyone join me?

A few Hof's here. None shaded.

Question for Scott., Have you tried decaf?

Ok Bob, i have obtained mutliple examples of the same card with shading on the back...

challenge to the board: if its a random printing error than surely someone would have a shaded version OF A COMMON CARD FROM THIS SET...

Please , anyone, show me a common card with shading, because in 4 years of searching, i cant find a common with shading.....interesting no?

decaf
 

i now drink decaf!

i still love this topic though!