Some AB460 Pirates
 

What else? Not at the level of Bob's Camnitz or the other nice cards in this post, but 4 of the 5 AB460 Pirates.

Anyone have a spare Camnitz hands over head?

http://photos.imageevent.com/gspinf/...20Subjects.jpg

Camnitz
 

Mike,
That Howie took the ride to SGC today, if it comes back like I hope it will, we can work out a deal. That one doesn't really blend in with my little box of beaters.

I like that, henceforth, the collection shall be know as "Bob and his little box O beaters". That has a nice ring to it!

Thanks,
Bob
upperhandisforemost@yahoo.com

ab
 

Ted, ole buddy
i've exchanged some recent emails with Bill Brown re: super set and found out he just now has 100 different ABs.
have his data been coming your way?
just checking.
best,
barry

Barry A......
 

I have checked with Bill. No new inputs to add to the 192 cards in the AB 350 (frame) series, nor the 72 cards in the AB 460 series.

Thanks for asking, ole buddy.

TED Z

ab
 

I had a feelin' that you had but wanted to make sure---after i heard Bill B.
say he had 100 now!!
great work, Ted.
all the best, ole friend

barry

Barry A......
 

Hey ole buddy, you have to keep checking up on me. I depend on you to keep me honest :)

Here's some more AB 460's

<img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/ab460cranlajburmcgraw.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


T-Rex TED

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

Let's see some more of these AB 460 cards.

Also, looking forward to seeing some of you this weekend at the Philly Show. Jim Rivera and I
will be set-up at Booth # 408.


<img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/aab460array12.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


TED Z

what no Conroy with the bat AB 460? :D

Jim R......
 

Conroy will be in the next group of AB 460 cards.

Thanx ole buddy.

TED Z

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

Well, I've either cornered the market on most of these AB 460 cards....or, they are much tougher
to find than most of us have thought they were.

I'm reprising this thread in hopes of finding a few more AB 460 cards.

Thanks for participating,

TED Z

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

Hey Jim, since you asked, here's the Conroy and 5 more AB 460 cards........


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ab460codemenepfwh.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

TED Z

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

Six more AB 460 cards

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ab460bahulaovstta.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

TED Z

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

We have a new input to add to the list of confirmed AB 460 cards....."double-O". Orval Overall (yellow sky) makes it the 74th AB 460.

Although, I've been searching for this one for 4 years, I predicted that Overall would eventually appear with an AB 460 back. It is a
350/460 card that exists with a UZIT back. And, if you recall in one of my earlier posts that I noted that 350/460 series T206's were
printed with both AB 460 and UZIT backs.

It is really a great feeling when you are proven correct on certain aspects of this Monster, for you begin to think that perhaps you've
got the Monster by its "horns".


T-Rex TED

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

With the latest discovery of "double-O", we now have accounted for 74 - AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards.
So, we are left with 29 subjects that are possible AB 460 "No-Prints".

Orval Overall (yellow sky) with an AB 460 back.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ab460overallstad.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abcigpackt206.jpg" alt="[linked image]">



UPDATED list......74 confirmed AB 460 cards


350/460 Series..................28 cards

Ames (hands over head)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wilhelm (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


460-only Series..................46 cards

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bescher (arms above)
Bergen (catching)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms up)
Chance (bat)
Chase (Trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hands at waist)
Hummell
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


If any Net54er poster's, or reader's have any AB 460 cards that are not listed here, please show and tell
us about them. Or, please email me at......

tedzan11@comcast.net


Your inputs are greatly appreciated,

TED Z

Hi Ted,
Nice Overall..... He is one of the tough AB 460's or I would already have a copy.... Congrats.... Be well Brian



PS I need to read thru all of the "rare back" threads that you and Jim have started.... It appears that the number of back collectors has increased a ton since we started posting on the board...

That overall is a great card. When i do start my T206 collection, those are the types i want, nice eye appeal cards.

I would guess the back collectors have increased as it is somewhat easier then the 525 cards of the set...

I know when i start, it will be a few select cards based on who the player is, a set of backs, and then cards with great eye appeal. Im not even going to attempt the 525 unless the lottery fairy visits

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abcigpackt206.jpg" alt="[linked image]">




Hey guys....we now have 74 cards confirmed with AB 460 backs; and, we are still looking for these 6 cards
with AB 460 backs. However, as I see it (and explain it) 5 of them were not printed with an AB 460 back.


Dougherty (arm in air).......possible Broad Leaf 460, therefore an AB 460 No Print
Elberfeld (Wash-fielding).... ?
John Frill.........................reassigned to Jersey City (Jul 1910), therefore most likely an AB 460 No Print
McIntyre (Brkln & Chi).......exists with Broad Leaf 460, therefore an AB 460 No Print
Murphy (bat)...................possible Broad Leaf 460, therefore an AB 460 No Print
Reulbach (no glove)..........possible Broad Leaf 460, therefore an AB 460 No Print

Any help confirming any of these 6 cards with AB 460 backs is greatly appreciated. Let's see if you can prove
me wrong ?


Thanks,

TED Z

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....show/tell of your's ?
 

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abcigpackt206.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


Net54 reader's have emailed me with confirmed inputs of Dougherty (arm in air), Elberfeld (Wash-fielding), McIntyre (Brooklyn &
Chicago), Murphy (bat), and Reulbach (no glove) with BROAD LEAF 460 backs. Therefore, applying my "mutually exclusive" rules
for cards in the 350/460 series (as these 5 are), I do not expect to find any of these 5 cards with AB 460 backs.

As for John Frill, since he was reassigned from the Highlanders to Jersey City (July 1910), I imagine that his card is most likely an
AB 460 No Print. As, the AB 460 cards were printed in the Spring of 1911.

We've confirmed that there are 74 cards printed with AB 460 backs; and, I feel 99% confident that this is a complete run. As a
consequence of this survey we now know that there are certain correlations between 4 of the rare T206 backs. It is apparent
to me that the AB 460 and UZIT cards were printed concurrently (circa 1911), as the fronts of these two backs exactly coincide.

Furthermore, the BROAD LEAF 460 cards are from the 350/460 series and they share the exact fronts with the Red HINDU cards.

Finally, it has become obvious that cards in the 350/460 series with AB 460 and UZIT backs are mutually exclusive with the cards
with BL 460 and Red HINDU backs.

Understanding these front/back combo patterns are very meaningful to avid collectors of T206 sub-sets, player and/or team col-
lectors, etc., as they remove the guesswork in search of certain T206's. Also, in this era of re-backed T206's, one can instantly
determine if a front/back combo is legitimate by having this specific knowledge.

This has been a great 5-month ride. I want to thank all of you, who have contributed to this on-going survey these past 5 months.

TED Z

Ted great work. Really enjoyed this thread. :)

Wonka
 

Thanks guy....we have the "MONSTER" by its horns.... :)

Best regards,

TED Z

monster
 

ted,
although the monster is your elder by a bit more than a quarter of a century,
you have shown him well that 'youth' has the muscle to hold him by the
horns!!!
congrats, ole friend.
best,
barry

Ted,

Your AB460-Uzit conformance rule, BL460-Red Hindu conformance rule and AB460-Uzit / BL460-Red Hindu mutual exclusivity rule each represent a significant breakthrough.

Reminds me of Einstein's three 1905 papers on the photoelectric effect, special relativity and Brownian motion.

Okay maybe not quite, but really great work, my friend!

Scot

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....MISSION COMPLETE
 

My, oh my....Scot

You are joshin' about my "relativity to Einsteinian" theories :) ?

However, if you akined me to Thomas Edison (my hero), I would be accepting of that as quite a high honor.
How many people know that Edison inadvertently was the first man to measure electronic current, while he
toiled with his light bulb invention ?

Where would this world of electronics be.....if Edison's experimentation back in 1880 with "electron motion"
emitted from metallic conductors within a glass enclosed vacuum.....had not occurred ? ?

Anyhow, my friend, I really appreciate your very kind words. Your "Inside T206" book has been very influen-
cial in my better understanding of this set....that many of us affectionally refer to as "The Monster".

Best regards,


TED Z

Smartly done!

Now let me ask a question: Does finding 74 AB460's mess with your sheet size theory? If they were all single printed, we'd have two spares (6 sheets + 2) hanging out at 12 cards across a sheet. Do you think some were double printed? Did they squeeze more than 12 on the sheet if they planned on the cards being more narrow? 13 cards across would presumably yield 78 cards.

these are my only 3 AB's...I thought I had a 350 no frame...wonder where it went?

nicely done congrats!

Attachment 16151Attachment 16152

not sure about AB 460 but Cycle 460 Frill does exist-also it is factory 25 not 42 but he did get printed with a 460 back

Jim R......
 

the CYCLE 460 cards were printed in the Fall/Winter of 1910. Therefore, I am not surprised that this front/back combo
exists.

The American Beauty 460 cards were inserted in AB cigarette packs at Factory #42 in the Spring of 1911. This was at
least 8 months after Frill was back in the Eastern League.


TEDZ

Overall Throwing
 

Hey Ted,

There was an American Beauty 460 Overall with yellow background that just was sold on eBay. I'm not sure but I think it was one of the cards that you were looking for on your list of unconfirmed 460s. Here is the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEDWX:IT

Best wishes,

Joe

The only American Beauty 460 that I still have... maybe on of the tougher ones.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../CobbAB460.jpghttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...bAB460back.jpg

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....MISSION COMPLETE
 

Frank

Very nice Cobb....regarding how tough this is with an AB 460 back, I would rank it as medium-tough. From my experience
in putting together this sub-set, there are 3 levels of scarcity....very tough, medium tough, and not so tough. Perhaps, I
will post a list of the cards that fall into these three categories of scarcity in a subsequent post.


Best regards ole buddy,

TED Z

Thank you, Ted.

I'd like to see a breakdown of American Beauty backs, series, frames, and difficulty. In an ideal world we could get Scot R. to revise or revisit his great work, or at least add an appendix that incorporates what you've done with cards by back.

That image up there with the cigarette and card sticking out of the pack, what's the middle line printed on the cigarette paper, between American Beauty and U.S.A.?

Frank W......
 

The printing on each cigarette in this American Beauty pack is:

" American Beauty
The American Tobacco Co.
U. S. A. "


Best regards,

TED Z

nice Cobb Frank...:D

T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set survey....MISSION COMPLETE
 

I have received several emails asking me if I won the rare AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 Orval Overall on ebay.

I did win this card with less than 1 second to go. My "counter-snipe" system worked perfect. Someone placed a snipe bid
of $176.01 in the last second. But, I still won it, with less than 1 second to go. Click on this link to check-out the bidding.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140393102997

I'm proud of my system....it has "out-sniped" the snipers for me 14 out of 16 times this past year. That's an 87% success
rate....not too bad.


TED Z

Anti sniped
 

Hi Ted,

Just for your information I was the underbidder on that auction and if I had to lose the card to an anti-snipe system that I'm glad it was yours.

Best wishes,

Joe

Thank you, Jim. And congratulations, Ted. Yours will be a good home for that Overall card.

Joe Dr......
 

I'm sorry, it was you that I beat out for this card. All we see is ebay's cryptic bidder ID's. I hate ebay's "cryptic-ized"
bidder's list.

I don't have a software type of anti-snipe system, just a "Ted Z system" that is unsophisticated, but quite effective.
Nonetheless, I was very surprised that I beat your bid in the very last second. My system has not been that precise
in my past 14 successful winning bids.


Best regards and hope to see you in Cooperstown, as usual this summer.

TED Z

cobb
 

Frank W.

great looking Cobb AB.
i don't see many of those!!!
and congrats Ted on inventing the Zanidakisean counter-snipe system.


best,
barry