You don't think customers would spend some of their card buying budget elsewhere if the Nat was in Vegas?

No arguments at all with Chicago - great facility & easy to get to.

Local shows are kaput. They're too inefficient and inconvenient for buyers and sellers. Tristar has pulled out of SF, for example. If they can't run a successful show in an area where millions of people are within one hour's drive, the writing is on the wall.

I like that Las Vegas idea.


Bill

I would think Orlando, FL would be a great fit. Not only would it have a great destination(Disney World) for the family. It also has a MLB team within an hour and beaches all around. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I remember a show at the Orange County Convention Center back around 2000/01. Since the Orlando Magic are moving into a new arena, that leaves the Amway Arena as a possible venue.

Mike - Thanks for keeping us updated, much appreciated.

I know Cleveland still has a poor image, but in reality it isn't the "mistake by the lake" that it once was. People can find things to do in almost any city if they really want to.

I hope to get to Chicago in 2 years after reading the positive comments regarding their show, once you beat the traffic it sounds like a good time!

RC

While I completely understand the family angle, not having too many other attraction/distractions may not be the worst thing as people won't mind spending extra time at the show or coming back for another day.

How's that for spin.

To build on what Exhibitman said, I think it is a misnomer to call this show the National if basically it is a ping pong match between Cleveland and Chicago, with an occasional other city thrown in from time to time. Cleveland and Chicago are great baseball towns with I'm sure substantial collecting bases. But unless we want to call this a show just for the dealers and wealthy collectors (who can afford the expense of airfare/lodging, etc.), I think it is being very short-sighted to continually ignore other parts of the country.

I seriously doubt it. We collectors have already proven our obsessiveness by traveling to third rate cities with fourth rate facilities just to chase old cardboard. I have yet to hear of anyone dropping their card budget on attractions, food, accommodations, etc., even in the purportedly more interesting locales that have hosted shows in the past (Anaheim, SF, AC, etc.). If anything, the increased attendance from having a first rate destination that our families will want to visit would more than offset any attraction-related losses. I'd bet (pun intended) that some collectors who won't go to some of the cities mentioned as possible hosts will go to Vegas and that some collectors who visit the show for a day or two would extend their stays.

Here's another vote for Orlando, FL http://www.bradblog.com/Images/Speci...ipping2008.jpg

Ditto :cool:

I love the Las Vegas idea as well... they should give at least some consideration to the West, and the convention center there can surely accomodate.

Another factor nobody has mentioned is airport accessability and the nimber of direct flights. Las Vegas has tons of direct flights, and can accomodate travelers as well as any city. Connecting flights/limited selection of flights are a real pain, and this factor influences whether or not people decide to attend.

Another Western city that hasn't been mentioned much is Denver. Again, it provides easy access from most areas in the U.S. and has a Major League Team (if that's a factor that matters to people).

Lastly, San Diego is a great city and a place that people LOVE to visit. Not sure about their convention center's size, but I know it's a recently new/improved one, and sits right on the beautiful harbor. It's easily walkable to scores of hotels, bars, good restauraunts, the Gaslamp Quarter, etc. Plus, they have a major league baseball team and lots of other nearby attractions for those who make a vacation out of it (Beach, Zoo, Sea World, Tijuana, etc.). You can easily walk from the Convention Center to Petco Park (as well as tons of restaurants and bars) in about 5 minutes. There cannot be a better venue!

Hopefully, it's not asking too much for perhaps 1 out of every 8 shows to be west of the Mississippi?

Actually and I've think I've said this
 

In reality, the best option (and I know this would upset some people) is the Rosemont facility every year. Good central location; Near Major Highways; near an airport; good public transportation close to the show; you can stay at a hotel to your budget concern and if you park where the train lets off; you can save quite a bit on parking and the walk is really not that bad. Also within a reasonable drive of many mid-west collecting hubs (St Louis; Milwaukee; Detroit,..)

In April; I was up for a family wedding and visited the area around the Baltimore Convention Center. Most of the same positives I mentioned for Chicago is there as well and with any luck we will have Orioles Home Games during the convention. No guarantee on that as the AL schedule is not released until September at the earliest. Also within a reasonable drive of NY City on south (4-5 hours from NYC) and only about 2 hours from Philly. Excellent customer base -- and I'm sure Papa John; MB and Mr. Wilke will do a good job promoting the show. (As an aside; I saw many people at this year's National who obviously had never attended a show before and they had merchandise to sell)

Hey; I'm glad I started this thread. I'm glad we kept it courteous and I'm very appreciative that Mike B came and posted and kept us updated. Mike; you know me for a long time -- if you wish whenever you have important updates I'll be happy to post them to this board for you.

I, personally, still like my hours suggestions (Those can be tweaked) and the varied pricing approach. The varied pricing approach -- can be equated to the Ballpark in Arlington, which is.. I expect and it is now being done, to spend more money for a weekend series versus the Astros; Red Sox or Yankees than I do for a mid-week August series versus the Royals. That does NOT IMHO take $$$ out of the promoter's pockets but helps them better allocate resources and i would rather not see on 2 PM Sunday a dead show; instead, I would like dealers fighting to stay!

At one time; I was told there were only 10 facilities in the country that could handle the National. So, remember; we are still limited in our choices due to logistics.

Gosh; this has been a good thread -- and I'm really looking forward to the next 2 years.

Regards
Rich

My Two Cents
 

I have certain issues every year with the National. Of course the admission and parking is criminal. I have issues with how sad the National is now, compared to when I started going in the mid-1980's. There is no energy. It's frail and ill. It's a different world of collecting with eBay, auction houses, the death of the current Baseball Cards and such.

I pointed to a card in a dealers cases. A rather common 1950's football semi-star with an SMR of $85. His price? $225! That same card can be found on eBay for about $90-100 and BIN's for around $150.

Since one of the people behind the National is on here, I must say that I understand that it's not your fault, but what these past and present athletes charge for signatures is simply stupid. There is nothing sadder than seeing a big name athlete charge three figures for something, sign like thirty signatures total and then sit there. Leave these guys home. I would prefer a quantity of common guys for $10-15 per who normally don't do many signings than what I saw.

How many times can Jim Brown or Joe Namath or Joe Montana do a show? Geez.

Las Vegas makes too much sense. Convention Capitol of the U.S.

Larry

The parking fee is also beyond the promoters reach
 

That is done by the Convention Center. The biggest problem with parking in Cleveland, is unlike Chicago, there is no cheaper outlet. If you wish to walk a bit in Chicago, I belive parking is $3 for the day at the CTA station. If you read my original treatise; my point was on admission charges NOT on parking. Let's focus on what we can change; not what the promoters have no say over.

Here is an example of that; due to union rules at the I/X Center; if you wish to carry out your merchandise; you must use a two wheeler. They will stop you at the door with a four wheeler. The promoters have no control over that and again we learn to live within those rules.

The autographs are also not part of the promoters reach. IIRC; they contract with Tri-Star to bring in autograph guests. Tri-Star does a great job with that and the autographs are for all price levels from nominal to $200+. That is not really an issue either as the autograph flow does not affect the show traffic. And again; another reason why I don't mind the promoters selling MVP or Super MVP tickets; etc. Some of the cheaper autographs become free with the higher end badges and that is fine. To use another ballpark in Arlington analogy; when I go to Rangers games with my friend whose tickets are six rows behind the visitors dugout; we also have the right to enter the gold club. Somone in the bleachers does not have that same option. The cost of the ticket is also much more for the better seat.

Regards
Rich

Another vote for Orlando here as well!

Rich is correct that the show could be held in Chi-town every year. The Rosemont is simply the best building in the hobby and there is always a buzz in that place.

I had no complaints about Cleveland and i thought the IX-Center was very easily found from any direction. I thought the Legendary auction was alot of fun to.

Even though alot of the cards were over priced all one had to do was hustle and there were bigtime bargains. One table had cards at 4.00 dollars a piece or 20 for 60 dollars and i was not even going to stop but a 1971 PSA high number 8 was on top of one pile, all of the cards were graded by PSA and i bought 30 PSA 7 to 8 1971 high numbers and alot of other cards for 3.00 bucks a piece and i do not normally fool around with lower end cards so there really was a bargain for everyone.

If anyone stopped by my cases i was practically giving things away, it was almost comical at the ridiculous low prices i quoted just to watch people think if it was a good deal or not.

The National is like any other show where the early bird gets the worm, you have to be there early and know what you are looking for and there are great deals to be had, if you plan on showing up on Saturday and waltzing around most of the great deals are already snatched up.

I would go every year if it were in Chicago.

Me too....
Be well Brian


PS Cubs, Golf, and great food....:)

I guess I'm in the minority that I really like the National in Cleveland. I just hate that $8 parking fee each day.

Alan.....i went to the Baltimore National coin show and parking was 20 dollars per day, get ready for next year because the parking will be expensive.

Go park in one of the area hotels and take their free shuttle service to & from the IX center ;)

Off the top of my head without thinking too hard, in the past year or so I have paid:

$20 a night to park at a hotel in Niagara Falls, Canada

$15 to park at a weeknight Cleveland Indians game

$10 to park at an Ohio State football game

$10 to park at a Columbus Blue Jackets game

$30 a night to park at a hotel in Chicago

$12 to park for about 3 hours at a parking garage in downtown Cincinnati

Complaining about paying $8 in a private parking lot for an event at which you're going to spend 4-8 hours is comical.

If you start saving 4 cents a day, by the time the next National in Cleveland rolls around, you'll have three days of parking covered.

In june I went to see the new Yankee stadium w/ the wife courtesy of Sarno.
We (not Sarno) stayed in a hotel by the Garden and I parked at the Port Authority right past the Lincoln Tunnel.
The next day headed for home and we parked at the Port about 26 hours, our fee $53

Please!!! Your last great President left a $1.3 trillion deficit and you say this administrations economic programs are sure to bankrupt America. If you have another thought on politics, do us all a favor and let it go. Just let it go.

Agreed.



Originally Posted by Yankeefan51
We find EJM's comments about the East Coast and the plethora of advanced collectors to be an inane. Another “lower class commentary” from the same crowd that elected the government whose economic programs are sure to bankrupt America.

Wealthy, successful people have rights too. The joy of the National is having the opportunity to acquire truly unique items, and exchange collecting experiences with world class collectors.

Although we have not been able to attend the National for the past few years, we enjoyed 16 shows where we had the chance to see Four Base Hits, Texas Tommy's and an Old Judge advertising poster, and countless other rare items.

As for poor, pathetic EJM, when the National is New York City, we will provide him with a job cleaning bathrooms. Perhaps he will get lucky, and clean up after an advanced collector. That may be as close as he ever comes to tasting the joy of owning an ultra rare, high grade baseball card.


I found out who this is so maybe if I can get off welfare and my probation officer lets me, I will ask for this job in person. In the mean time keep selling your sheet music Bruce.

San Diego is a fantastic idea. Comic Con is there every year. The size of the convention center is huge. They have two halls that could hold the national if I recall. It is right next to Petco Park, hotels, food, etc. From Comic Con, I was able to walk to my hotel, the Gas Lamp, Petco, the harbor, and Horton Plaza (large shopping mall). Great local transportation and a slew of family places like the world famous San Diego Zoo, Sea World, Mission Bay, Gaslamp, etc. It is an amazing location.

If we cannot have it in Anaheim or Vegas, I definitely vote for San Diego.

Joshua

I agree. The arrogance at trade shows turned me off of them. I just save my pennies and buy a vintage card every once in a while, and I'm not willing to deal with the bloated sticker prices and used car salesman mentality.

I completely agree; in the overall context of hotel, airfare, admission, food, etc., the cost of parking is a drop in the bucket. Enough whining about the nickels and dimes.

As for parking, spend a day with a car in NYC.....went there with three friends when the National was in Atlantic city. Parked at downtown Athletic club in the am to go to statue of liberty....$30. Parked in Chinatown/Little Italy in a garage for a couple hours......$30. Parked on Hudson around 32nd for rest of day......$10. Probably could have done it a little different and cabbed or subwayed and saved but $70 for the day. $8 is $8. As for the I-X center, it's not THAT bad. They've at least built a huge new bathroom near the front of the center that's nice. Otherwise their bathroom facilities stink. The food stinks at each and every show I've ever been to. People are correct that at Brown convention center in Chicago, you can go out to something close....Giordanos, Gibsons, McDonalds and get back pretty quickly. And the hotel situation is good. In Louisville, Chicago is 4 hours for me, Cleveland 5.5, so I'm cool with any of them. Have been to every national since 1992. Atlanta, St. Louis were also good, close venues to us. Would assume East coast is where the dearth of collectors and dealers are. Ultimately, it'll be where the dealers and promoters decide. Mike Berkus has been great to answer questions and give rationale behind some of the decisions. As some have said, we're addicted and will follow whereever they have it. Vegas would be cool but all the diversions might make it difficult to stay focused!

[QUOTE=autograf;740890] Would assume East coast is where the dearth of collectors and dealers are. Ultimately, it'll be where the dealers and promoters decide. Mike Berkus has been great to answer questions and give rationale behind some of the decisions.

T-Bob -- just playing the Barry S role of grammar/vocabulary host here. Dearth means shortage -- don't you mean -- biggest group.

Rich

Thos Somolians can really add up. Did you split the room at least?

First of all, it is called a National but it has become a regional show. Same locations over and over. Second, the show is to long at 5 days. It's no wonder some dealers pack up early. Move the damn show around the country as it should be and cut it down to 3 or 3 1/2 days.

I wonder why a city like Knoxville, Tennessee has never been thought of. Easy access from 8 surounding states. 4 hours from Cinci, 3 frm Charlotte and Atlanta. 2 1/2 fron Nashville. Easy access fro Penn. , St louis, Florida and others. They have a large convention center. A NEW AREA. Why not? At least you'd get some new faces in the crowd. Instead its the same old, same old. Wake the hell up.

Just checked. Knoxville convention center has 500,000 sq. ft. of space. I guess that would be big enough!!!!!!!! Also is an excellent location for familys. Pigeon Forge, and Gatlinburg right up the road is an excellent area for vacation with plenty to do and Dollywood an excellent Disney type park. Minor league ball in the area also. Got to be a hell of a lot better for a family than Chicago or Cleveland.

More thoughts on Chicago and Cleveland. With all the shows that go on in this area I would think that the dealers would welcome some new areas for the National. New blood is needed in any business and theres none left in that area. The people with resources will travel to wherever the national is. The people in the current area are the same people over and over. I would bet that this years show was not that great and it's not only because of the economy. You need fresh blood.

Just a quick note to consider. I hear the same issues that are being bounced around on the thread from our National dealers and our Board of Directors, so the questions and suggestions are not new but still worthy of listening to. It would be impossible to satisfy everyone, just not possible. Families traveling to the National have totally different needs than individual collectors. We tried to work out packages in Anaheim to Disneyland, Knotts, Angel games, etc. but the groups that we did our deals with were totally disappointed with the turnout of response and do not care to work with us anymore. Response was minimal and we were advised to just let those that want to see sights, booked their tickets or times on their own. It became apparent to us that we need to concentrate on our show rather than outside venues. We do try to include all different price hotels in our block of rooms and we usually know the areas well enough to suggest food and entertainment to those that ask but few attendees ask. As for smaller cities, i.e. Knoxville, two problems exist. First, the total amount of exhibit space advertised on their website is 120,000 sq ft. This is on the first floor only, additional floors have a combination of 250,000 sq ft but broken up. We cannot house a National in that small of a facility and certainly not in broken up space and different floors. Second issue is population. We expect at least 50% of our attendance to be of a local nature, within 1 hour drive to the facility. That means that a smaller base population could mean much smaller attendance. My life would be threatened by our dealer base if I made that mistake.

Trust me on a couple of fronts. After 30 years of the National, I am somewhat familiar with the primary issues of hosting a show. The following examples are listed by priority to us, as promoters. 1) facility - must be all on 1 floor with 300,000sq ft min. 2) decorator charge - Cleveland leads in permitting dealer easy set up, that is the absolute primary reason for our repeated visits. We pay the union/decorator $45 per dealer, upfront, to turn their backs on union rules. We do not pass this charge onto the dealer and we pay it for the entire room, every booth, regardless whether the dealer uses the service or not. It is a flat fee to us and run anywhere from $23k to $28K total. Without this, dealers would pay hundreds to wait inline with their inventories and have union workers deliver the stock to each booth. 3) is local population. We would like at least 15,000 local people to join us at the show. We have a local ad and marketing budget of $50,000.00 just to encourage the sports person to either come to buy items or sell what they may have been sitting on for years. 4) local expenses to our out of towners. This includes hotel, food, parking, etc. fees that we try to keep reasonable. 5) hours of the show. We know that 2-3 days is plenty for local attendees but persons who fly in or drive a great distance want as much value for their time as possible. Also dealers need to have a full slate of hours open, to guarantee a strong financial return on their investment. We could hardly expect a VIP attendee to pay $119 for the VIP package and only have 3 days of the show, less autograph tickets, or special product sets. Also, dealers do leave early on Sunday! This is a double edge sword to us. We do not want to impose sanctions on our dealer base. We are not in the police business and the more rules we impose the more problems we all face. Our promoter team has taken it's lumps for allowing dealers to leave early. We have to close our admission booths down at least 3 hours before we are officially closed to not cheat any attendees out of their time on the show and if some booths are empty. This results in a financial loss to us with about an average of 1000 or more attendees come into the show for free. What some dealers don't realize is that many large sales have been recorded by the dealers who stay until the end. But, the bottom line of responsibility, is our job. If we put 10,000 customers on the floor at 4:40pm on Sunday, dealers would stay. We just can't find that formula to gather consumer interest after 2-3pm. We continue to try.

Well, there you have it. The instant guide for promoting a National. On one hand, there is a ton of improvement that constantly needs to be reviewed. On the other hand, we must have done one or two things right, next year in Baltimore will be our 31st annual National. We have weathered the downswing in collecting, the negative press articles, bad economies, loss of local shows and collecting base, and even the attitudes of convention centers who do not want our business. As I mentioned before, we are taking serious looks at Las Vegas, Boston, St. Louis, and anywhere on the West Coast that comes close to matching the above priorities. Baltimore is getting a very strong and positive reaction by our hobby and that is a very good sign. Sometimes it's just up to attitude that can make a difference in how succesful our show is.

Anyway, keep the passion, without it we have no hobby. Even if it's in the form of a complaint. I have grown a couple layers of thick skin over the last 30 years and can handle a lot, just as long as the National survives.

Regards,

Mike Berkus

Sorry Mike, I don't buy it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with dealers on more than one floor. In fact I think the dealers of early stuff would like it better if the new stuff guys were on a different floor. I think the buyers would like it better also. it would make thier search time less. As far as area with easy access Knoxville is as easy or easier than anywhere you have a National. Also the place is large enough for autyograph signings to be away from the dealers floors. Sorry Mike but I don't agree with you at all. Frank

Hello Frank,

Sorry but you could not be more wrong. The last time I ran a show on two different floor was in 1992, Opryland Hotel. The dealers all complained. The ones on the 1st floor thought that the dealers on the second floor got better traffic and the ones on the second floor thought the dealers on the 1st floor got all the traffic. Double set of ticket takes, double set of security, double set of management needs, load in, etc. Had to refund $35K of dealer tables to satisfy complaints and have the hotel comp 40 room nights. It was close to a riot. Bet you can't get 20 dealers from the National to agree with you. Plus, if you do some checking, you will find you are wrong about the Knoxville CC. Get facts straight first, then complain.

Mike

Frank
 

Frank- this is why this board is good. You can disagree with anyone and give your opinion why you disagree. This argument reminds me a lot, but on a much much smaller scale, of managing this board. What happens is that over time I (and Mike B on the National) get very accustomed to hearing the other sides of the argument why, or why not, something should be done. We (and I am not really speaking for Mike but he will probably agree) have to make the best decision for the masses. I have about a third of the experience of running this board (and being on it) as Mike does at running a National show. His reasoning is tried and true, to try to appease the largest numbers of dealers and collectors. We absolutely KNOW we will not please everyone. It just isn't possible. We can try as hard as we want but as long as humans are involved we know it's an impossibility. I appreciate Mike coming on the board and explaining a lot of the reasoning that goes into picking a venue for the National. It's certainly not as easy as it might sound. As a pseudo-dealer/auctioneer and collector extraordinaire :), I think they do a fine job. WE could have the show in the New Mexico desert and I would be happy. For me it's all about having a 5 day party with my collecting friends. I absolutely love it...take care now and please keep voicing good, bad and indifferent opinions. It's the only way we can evolve and continue the vitality of the hobby. best regards

ps....by the looks of the local workers I think I see a niche to be filled, for dentists, in Cleveland. I thought I was in the Appalachians.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike just say that you are happy with having the show in the same area every year rather than give me a line of bullshit. 500,000 sq. ft. is 500,000 sq. ft. Don't insult me with some stupid remark. I CAN READ. If you insist on Chicago every other year STOP calling your SHOW ( and thats what it is) a NATIONAL. IT is nothing more than a regional state show. Complacency will however be the end of your show. Look around at the businesses going under from it. Yours will be no different. People are getting sick of the same old, same old. Wake up.

"ps....by the looks of the local workers I think I see a niche to be filled, for dentists, in Cleveland. I thought I was in the Appalachians."

No Leon, no stills in plain sight.

and Mike, thanks for all of your efforts. I had a great time in Cleveland, Chicago, or wherever. If you have it, they will come.

LEON; Absolutely!! You would travel to do the National wherever it is. And so would most big dealers. However with the show in the same place all the time it has left its status behind. There are other collectors in other cities who would like to go and spend some money at this show. I did not go this year because of ths $600 it would cost me to go. Also it gives dealers in other areas a chance to set up. I do not like the way it is now set up, it needs to advance to the next level. Frank

big?
 

I hardly think of me as a big dealer but I have been called worse. Now, if we are talking circumference then I am getting bigger all of the time. I too would like a change of venue but it's just not that easy. I absolutely can guarantee Mike, and the other directors on the board, want to do what is best for the show. There is not one thing that you have thought of that Mike and crew hasn't discussed a hundred times. I very much trust he knows what is best and will continue to do what is deemed best. Please try not to get too personal too. You can throw the BS flag, I do it frequently, but please stay courteous. We are all friends and collectors here..I haven't seen anything over the top but just a friendly reminder..... thanks again.....

OK Frank, I see that the passion is still alive. Dollywood, here we come! I will recommend to the board that we take the show to a new level of 3 floors, 2 or 3 days of admission, regional dealers taking priority over 31 year table holders, and minor league ball at it's finest. We will probably all be able to stay at your house, given the high points of the "new Regional" convention.

Just kidding Frank, keep your sense of humor and come to Baltimore. I'll give you a free weeklong pass.

Regards,

Mike

BAKER; Your remark about the people in the Appalachain's was uncalled for. Obviosly they are much better people than you.

"ps....by the looks of the local workers I think I see a niche to be filled, for dentists, in Cleveland. I thought I was in the Appalachians."

As far as that statement goes, Some of the dealers were some of the grosser folks there. Bad teeth and obesity are everywhere so that statement is null and void of truth.

Family Day - Sunday
 

Q: What do you get if you lock 14 Cleveland natives in the same room?
A: A full set of teeth.

If you want to increase attendance on Sunday, which I guess is family day, give people more of a reason to come out. Are there any autograph guests on Sunday afternoon? Maybe 6-8 autograph guests which would appeal to collectors of new stuff as well as vintage collectors would help. Maybe something could be worked out with the parking & admission for Sunday? If all else fails, hot chicks in bikini's will usually draw a crowd.

sure
 

I admit I am overweight....I like to eat. Sorry, I was just calling it like I saw it. Sorry if offended anyone. I will try not to say what I think anymore....based on being there. best regards

edited to add that the folks working there were all very nice.....my comment was solely based on a few individuals needing a few more teeth. There are worse things in life....

Mike, you make good points. The show is called the "National" because it brings dealers and collectors from all over the country once a year. And while I'm sure Knoxville is a swell place, I just don't see it as a National venue for the reasons Mike mentioned.

[QUOTE=Rich Klein;740896]Rich- You might ask Tom B. he wrote that not me.
Tbob
P.S. I do know where dearth means BTW :D

Can't we all just get along?? Really....we all do the same thing, just on diffrent scales as far as spending and does it really matter where we come from? People that don't collect think we are Dorks, Nerds, Losers anyway so lets try to keep it together. Have the National anywhere it needs to be. Everytown will have pluses and minuses. Now I have to finish my 1990 Fleer baseball set. (Joke).

Frank,

You couldn't be more wrong. It's called The National because it attracts dealers and collectors from a nationwide audience, not because it moves around the whole country.

The International Consumer Electronics Show is held every January in Las Vegas. Has been there since 1978. No one is Oslo is bitching that they don't get a shot.


I think the ability to have the entire show on one floor is vital. Splitting us customers is never a good idea. Some of those customers of shiny stuff might be captivated by seeing vintage cards. Also, having the autograph signers close is important. They are there to attract people to the show. If you move people to another location, you defeat that purpose.

I think Mike and his team do a great job or organizing the show. If you don't, I have a suggestion for you. Go to the people at the Knoxville Convention Center and sign a contract to lock it up for a week. Convince some dealers to come and set up. Spend a couple of bucks advertising to collectors and run your own show.

You will soon find out it isn't as easy as you think. Coming on a public message board, using foul language to attack the event organizer, when you clearly have no concept of what's involved is uncalled for.

Disagree all you want, but right now, there aren't five people in the country more knowledgeable about organizing this show. You're not one of those five.

Didn't ask for your 2 cents and don't need them. Your whole post was about the dealers and promoters. Sorry, BUT THE BUYERS MAKE THE SHOW. No buyers, no show.

I have never needed your permission to offer my opinion.


After you get your own show up and running, maybe you could start your own message board. That way you'll never have to deal with dissenting opinions.


And by the way, keeping the dealers on the same floor is about BUYERS, not dealers.

Frank, I think the National is usually held in cities with larger metro areas because there is a greater likelihood of attendance and participation in those places. Knoxville just doesn't cut it.

Take a swing at C Dog, Frank.

LOL Just venting my opinion. Not looking for a fight. I'm to old.

http://www.knoxvilleconventioncenter...loor_plans.php


Looks like Mike was correct and not feeding you a line of BS, as you claimed. I think you owe him an apology.

Vegas
 

I love the Vegas idea. Lots to do. Great food. Cheap flights and hotels. Combine the national with a vacation. Sounds like fun.

Rick

Vegas would be awesome. Problem is, would anyone show up at the National?

Vegas.....
 

Vegas is a horrible idea because gambling would kill card sales LMAO. People would lose so much cash at the tables that cards would just sit. Anyone who thinks a major card show should be held in Knoxville Tn has probably drunk to much moonshine in one's life. Not that i dislike Tn because i lived in Nashville for 3 years but no way is a card show going to fly.

I really do not see what the fuss is all about, Cleveland was fine and finding the show was very simple. I think Baltimore will be a hit though because the building has a better layout.

NO NO NO NO NO; Moonshine keeps your sinuses clear so you get more oxygen to the brain. Nothing wrong with that.

Ahhhh
 

[QUOTE=tbob;740984]All you T.B. types sound alike to me -- sorry about that -- that's way I should not become the Barry S English Prof on this board :)

And for Frank A; I do understand and sympathize with your points; when I started this thread -- I understood there are no perfect solutions but with my experience in the hobby I just wanted to make a few points. We've had some twists and turns and kept this mostly positive and recieved some fantastic comments from Mike B about what is needed to run a National (Plus he's offered you a full pass for next year -- as long as you get to Baltimore :) )

OK; let me conclude for now with a few pts

1) My instinct from walking around the area of the Baltimore Convention Center is that this is a very solid location although it will cost the promoters a few more sheckels than some of the other venues. They will do a good job promoting the show locally for the National is both a LOCAL and a NATIONAL show. When I did the Favorite Player Contest for BHN at the 1988 Atlantic City National and talked to Frank Barning later, he told me that the National was a bigger, better and wider local show. The National is still exactly that, with great dealers; a nice flock of collectors and hopefully a good regional crowd to full out the arena.

2) My biggest issues are something the promoters are very aware of; which is the dearth of people who attend and stay on Sunday. That, includes the dealers -- which is why I suggested varied admission pricing based on what day/days you came to the show, how many hours you wanted to be there, etc. They want Sunday to be better; I want Sunday to be better,. etc.

3) I also wanted to focus on what we can change. We can not change the parking fees to attend so guess what; I did not bring that up. I want us to focus on what we can suggest on collectors/dealers; not what we can't suggest.

You realize we've drawn over 7K views to this thread -- so as Mike B has said; not only have the posters shown passion but also the lurkers are very interested.

4) Let's keep this courteous. Some of the worst nights of my life have been spent in the pre-1994 National Business Meeting. For those of you who remember those; they had a tendency to end about 2 AM. I really don't want to return to those days folks. Mike deserves respect for making the statements he does on this board.

5) I am very much pro-National and pro shows. There is something special about seeing the cards before you buy/sell them!

Anyway -- thanks to everyone who posted/read or learned a lot about our hobby. I learned a lot and I thought I understood about the mechanics of the National -- and there is so much more to learn.

Regards
Rich

OK, there have been some very passionate comments made and some very complimentary statements as well. I thank Jim, Rich, Leon, and others who truly care about the National and attend with a love of this hobby. Many issues concerning the show are just not known by so many people. I think that most of you, once explained, understand what can and cannot be done. All sites of the National are voted on by the dealers. No one, myself included, can select a National location without the dealers voting. Anything that happens at our show, booth fees, site selection, expenses, decorating, etc. are approved by the Board of Directors (which I am not a member), before they are put in place. Our show is owned by the dealers and everything is decided by the dealers. Once the show location is approved, my team (John Broggi, Bob Wilke, and myself) are directed to operate the show under the terms laid out by the Board of Directors. We do not make these decisions on our own. It truly matters not to me where the dealers choose our show location, I am consumed by creating the marketing, advertising, and partnerships so desperately needed by the National, to make thing work best. My role is the same regardless of the site. For those of you who think I make all these decisions, check with the Board of Directors and you will find the truth. Truth be told, I am the least political of anyone. I just want the show to survive. It is a matter of pride. No one has more fun at a National than me. I live for it.

Most dealers and collectors do not care about the details of the show. They just want it right, when they get there. They want the booth selection that they picked out ready, tables, sign, and chairs. They want the show to open on time and have no cares what the fire marshall might desire or demand. I don't blame them! They pay the freight of the show and that means I work for them. Many of the participants of the National have no idea what we have discussed so far on this thread and could care less. As Rich said " the old dealer meetings lasted until 2am". Today, our dealer meetings last 15 minutes. Things run smooth because both the Board of Directors and our promotion group are on the same track. Keep it simple and do it right. If you want a scary moment, walk into a 500,000 sq ft facility 2 days before setup and take a hard look at an huge empty area. Then, worry about filling it up with dealers, attendees, corporate sponsors, and staffing. That always gets to me before each National. No matter how many shows I have done, I always worry that this one will fail. It is what keeps me honest and working hard.

Whether it is Frank wanting Knoxville or anyone else with ideas that differ from what we are doing currently, I am always interested in hearing about it. But, once the music starts, just like a ballgame, it is too late for talking we have a show to run. Aside from seems like my complaining, I wouldn't have it any other way. I love being part of the show and hope that some of the information I have passed on is helpful to you. I know that without your participation, we would be far worse off. We need all of you to care, imput ideas, and most of all, be at the show.

Good luck to everyone for the next year and if I can be of any help, my email is mberkus@aol.com. I truly enjoy hearing from you. Hope everyone can make it to Baltimore. Most importantly, stay well, none of us are young!

Best regards,

Mike

As a lurker living in Baltimore,looking forward to my 1st National, how much complaining do I have to do to get my free pass?

Can't wait until next year - and will be offering any help I can to the board for surviving in and enjoying Baltimore.

Will

Dear Lurker,

I will take care of anyone who has posted before "this post". I appreciate all the comments so I have made a list of those who took the time to chat and if anyone who has posted on Rich's thread prior to this last post of mine, wants to attend, email me at mberkus@aol.com. Sorry, to those who I cannot include, you are still welcome to attend but unless the Balt CC decides to let me have their facility for free, we need admissions!

See you in Balt.

Mike