Multitasking. :)

Thought it was 15 and 30 minute increments? Do lawyers still bill out in 6 minute increments?

A consignor sends a card to Mastro
Mastro auctions the card
Mastro ships the card to the buyer
Mastro doesn't pay the consignor
The new owner of the card just auctioned it on ebay
The new new owner now has the card
Mastro continues to not pay the consignor


This completely sucks. While its funny to watch the apologists in this thread try to find ways to justify, explain and/or lessen the impact of mastro/legendary's actions -- it isn't one bit funny what mastro/legendary is doing to the consignors or what they are doing to the hobby.

Shame on mastro/legendary.

I've said it before, there is no new owner and there is no new new owner. Until the consignor gets paid, he is still the owner. As such, the consignor ultimately has little risk (outside of the payment delay and such) since if he doesn't get paid he legally gets his card(s) back. Remember, until he gets paid it's still a consignment.

I am not sure I get your point. The consignor doesn't have the card in hand. Mastro shipped it to the winner. The winner just sold it on ebay, and shipped it to the ebay-winner.

The consignor doesn't have the cash, and doesn't have the card. Where is there little risk? Mastro can't send him the card back, they have already sold it to someone else. That someone else has since sold the card?

Who is going to go get the card from the ebay buyer?

This isn't a hypothetical scenario. It just happened. The consignor had to watch his card sell on ebay within the last couple of weeks, and hasn't been paid since February.

I am sure this consignor feels that he is in a little risk situation. Probably not worried at all.

He needs to put in a legal claim for return of his consignment.

To take Brian's point further: What happens if, after I pay for a card that I bought in a Mastro auction, I destroy it (or, more realistically, it accidentally gets destroyed)?

If the answer is that I have to make restitution of the selling price to the original consignor -- in effect paying for the card twice, once to Mastro and again to the consignor -- then you might want to try to come up with something better.

Whenever I am making legal claims, I always think to myself -- no risk at all, its just a little payment delay & such...

Think of it this way. When has the "Title" to the card transferred from the consignor. Answer: It hasn't.

Yes, the buyer is at risk.

Here's an example that's more common, but very similar. My car is worth $10,000. I sell it to you for that price and give you the car. I don't pay off the bank for the loan on the car. A couple months later you get a knock on the door from the bank asking for their car back. Guess who gets the car?

I should add a link proving this.

That example isn't similar at all. Unlike in a consignor/auctioneer relationship, the bank didn't authorize you to sell the car on its behalf.

This isn't worth debating with you, simply because your points and assumptions have little to no merit. I'll let someone else continue this lesson in frustration.

Brian, can you provide a link to the ebay auction? I wonder did the ebay seller pay for the card or is he one of the fellows who got his stuff from Mastro without paying?

It isn't that simple, Egbeachley
 

I had one of these cases several years ago. Because the consignor parted with the card knowingly at the outset but the auctioneer embezzled the proceeds, title may transfer. It depends on two factors: (1) which state law is applicable to the transaction and (2) which version of the Uniform Commercial Code was enacted by that state. Some states allow an item obtained under false pretenses to be sold to a bona fide (unwitting) purchaser; some do not. Assuming that the initial transaction could be deemed a transaction under false pretenses--which it may well be since Mastro plainly was in deep doo-doo at the time of the February auction since it ceased ops in early March--whether title transfers has to be analyzed as above.

damn, Joshua, that is funny stuff
 

I'm picturing Kit Young easing his fat behind out of the lounge chair and waddling down the aisle after the second guy...

Be nice to Kit Adam and what are you doing up so early??

Truth, Justice and The American Way
 

We have long stated

Trust no one
Double check everyone


It is disappointing (and criminal) that consignors have not been paid
by certain auction houses.

Given the time, energy and money that long-time collectors have invested
in a hobby, when it is time to sell, it is imperative that said collectors
are treated with dignity and respect.

The Board should dedicate all its efforts to removing any auction houses and/or dealers who violate their legal and moral obligation to the collecting community.

The Board should publish a list of auction houses that do not pay on terms and distribute at the National. And their practices should be reported to the Post Office, FBI and local law enforcement.

Perhaps there is a few extra rooms in Mr. Madoff's prison to house hobby thieves. Just think by the time they get out their 2009 Topps cards will be more than 100 years old. Perhaps, then they can pay their debts.
In the interim, it is time to severely punish the hobby thieves.

Bruce lives!

Bruce's post does not include the universally recognized "America's Toughest Want List" byline...has it been retired?:confused:

Thanks Rich...just a typo

Barry; I'm sooo disappointed in you
 

Has it be retired?

I guess grammar is taking off for the three-day weekend as well :p

Barry -- I know buddy -- was just giving you a hard time; after all; due to my and my wife's surgeries this week -- we've had the M-I-L over as a guest and you can imagine how that goes on a full time basis :)

Rich

Great to see Bruce back posting again. Lots of really insightful points in his latest effort — and none of the self-congratulatory stuff we used to read.

sirens going off....
 

calling the grammar police....clean up on aisle 1.....:eek:

He's actually been registered for 2 months and has posted a few times but those posts were in the BST. Perhaps he has been practicing restraint.

One typo and I get walloped.:(

I just thought you were speaking ebonics.

David,
You be funny.
Jeff

To many on the board this will be like saying that the laundry service on the Titanic used just the right amount of starch, but I mailed my payment last Friday (June 26) for two lots in the most recent Mastro/Legendary auction and received the package today (July 3).

The shipping and handling charge, while high, was pretty much in line with what you expect from most auction houses these days.

Just figured it's only fair to report the good with the bad.

Rob, what's the under/over on the timing of those consignors of those lots getting paid? 450 days?

That prop is off the board, Jeff.

Of course I have no idea the answer to your question. All I can post about is what I do know, and in this case (and also my previous purchase with Mastro/Legendary), I received the items I purchased about a week after sending in payment.

Anyone want to start a boycott?
 

I have no problem telling Legemastro to stuff their catalogs until they pay the consignors they stiffed. If enough of us do the same, it may have more impact than all the posts and investigations combined.

Adam

It will be easy for me to boycott Legendary's auctions, as I just received the catalog for the auction ending June 24 on July 2. Where is H.G. Wells when we need him?

MaX

Leon--Based on the emails you have received would you have any idea of how much money is still owed to consignors.

What about the consignors who don't read this board? Or those that haven't contacted Leon? It is impossible to know how many consignors still have not been paid. Of course, Doug would know that answer -- woops -- I mean Doug doesn't know, no matter how many emails and phone calls he's received.

In the Mastro movie, Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes will play Doug.

Jay
 

Based on the emails I have received the monies owed by Mastro are not a whole lot....but as Jeff said I only know what was emailed and there are tons of folks that don't read this board...

edited to try to not take sides...which I really shouldn't do