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04-16-2009 06:49 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBDave, That's a pretty broad question. I don't think either company makes that info searchable in their database.

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04-16-2009 06:50 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBTed, I have two, both Sweet Cap 350 Factory 30.

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04-16-2009 06:58 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI don't know how we can establish a grand total population of how many Red Cobb cards exist. Grading Co. POP reports are at best misleading (due to constant churning of re-grading). And, there are still many old dinosaurs like me who have ungraded Cobb's (currently, I have 4 such Red Cobb's). Then there are (by my count) 30 different Red Cobb's....24 T206's, Ty Cobb back, 1910 Coupon, T213-2, T213-3, T214 and T215....which complicates any true count of this Subject. Here is what we do know......in two independent T206 surveys totalling over 40,000 cards, the Red Cobb out-numbers all other T206 Subjects (except the 5 other Super-Prints) by a factor of approx. 2 to 1. The closest Subjects were guys like Johnson (portrait) and Joss (pitching). From these surveys, Johnson's sample was 110 cards and Joss' sample was 124 cards....while the Red Cobb's sample was 196. TED Z

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04-16-2009 07:34 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou noted...... "I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu...." Are you alluding to the Brown HINDU back ? I don't think you are, because the Brown HINDU back exists only in the 150/350 Series of T206's. The Red Cobb was printed in the 350/460 Series; and therefore, can never be found with a Brown Hindu back. TED Z

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04-16-2009 07:40 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks JEFF L, BRUCE M, BRIAN W, JIM VB and a Net54 reader for your inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/16/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..0....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 11....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..4....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI 11....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 16....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 11....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 127 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions. Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. TED Z

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04-16-2009 09:05 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: RichardTed - Here is a drum. Not mine, but wish it was. <a href="http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&amp ;lot_qual=" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&amp ;lot_qual=</a>

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04-17-2009 06:48 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI was aware of this Cobb when the Hunt find was reported. But, I didn't input it, hoping that some one here would provide a scan. Thanks again, TED Z

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04-20-2009 07:34 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks to Richard and 4 emails responses from Net54 readers, we have 6 more inputs. TED Z

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04-20-2009 07:37 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/20/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..1....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..4....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..6....TOLSTOI 11....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 20....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 11....POLAR BEAR We have a total of 133 inputs.....it doesn't look like we'll attain the 200 figure that I hoped for. Anyhow, we are 2/3 rds of the way there, and that will do for now. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has not been reported is the UZIT....does any one have one ? TED Z

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04-20-2009 11:18 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Glyn ParsonI have a Piedmont 460 Factory 25.

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04-21-2009 11:30 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis GLYN....thanks for your PIEDMONT 460/25 input. Also, I received a Net54 reader's email input with a TOLSTOI back. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Here's my UZIT red Cobb.....it's too bad that it's my gimmicked-up fake. Otherwise, if real, it would be a really unique error that would command big $$$$$$. Actually, I'm surprised that such printing mistakes haven't been found, since American Lithographic was printing these Red Cobb's and the T80 Military men cards, simultaneously, in early 1911. In any event, still looking for a Red Cobb with a UZIT back to confirm its 24 different T206 backs. Or, any other Red Cobb's will do ? TED Z

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04-21-2009 11:42 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: ToddI have one red Cobb. It has an Old Mill back.

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04-21-2009 12:45 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Bruce BabcockHi, Ted. I agree completely with you about resubmissions and ungraded cards owned by old farts like me. I was surprised, though, by how many have been graded, even accounting for resubmissions.

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04-21-2009 06:35 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: gil lindgrented,you can add a sweet caporal 350 factory #30 to the list.

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04-21-2009 10:12 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jeff D.You can add another Piedmont 460 factory 25 to the list.

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04-22-2009 07:19 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: brian pOne more Piedmont 350 factory 25 can be added to the list. Brian

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04-22-2009 08:43 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for bringing up this subject again. I have given this some thought and I think we can extrapolate and arrive at an educated guess to answer your original question. Let's do a little math here...... Let's assume that this random survey of 40,000 T206 cards is valid. It yielded 196 red Cobb's......and, an over all ave- rage (OAA) of 78 each of the other 509 T206's. 40,000/509 T206 Subjects = OAA of 78 T206's.....509 = 524 - (the Big 6, 6-Super Prints, Dahlen, Elberfeld, Lundgren) 40,000/196 = a red Cobb per every 200 cards Red Cobb/OAA = 2.5 red Cobb's per any other 509 Subjects Simply stated, the Red Cobb lies somewhere between a Double Print and a Triple Print. Furthermore, Scot Reader, in his book "Inside T206", has a chapter on the "survivability" of the T206 cards. If I recall correctly, he estimates approx. 1 to 2 Million cards. I think Scot's estimate is a good one. So, if we divide 1 Million T206's by 200, it yields 5,000 red Cobb's. This number might sound high; and, I'm sure I'll be challenged on this population #.....but, that's my best guess. Best regards, TED Z

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04-22-2009 12:12 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks....TODD....GIL....JEFF....BRIAN....fo r your Red Cobb inputs. I'm going to visit an old hobby friend tonite who has a huge T206 collection (all ungraded), which includes 8 red Cobb's. So, I will be upgrading this survey late tonite or tomorrow with at least 14 new inputs. TED Z

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04-22-2009 12:15 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Mike MattisonPolar Bear for me.

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04-22-2009 12:25 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: ToddTed, Your survey is very interesting. It would be nice to know how many of the cards sampled have been graded. Most of my card collection is ungraded. Wonka - Love that yellow and purple Cobb ! Keep up the good work !

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04-22-2009 12:25 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: PeterSpaethSovereign 350

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04-22-2009 12:40 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: chipropHere is my only t206 Cobb... I'm bringing it to The National this year. <img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i12/chiprop/cobbdrum-2.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i12/chiprop/cobbdrumbk.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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04-22-2009 12:47 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Toddnice Drum Cobb !!!

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04-22-2009 03:00 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: RichardDanno - why are you bringing that to the national? To give to me? btw, in case you didn't hear, rare back / common front Cobb's are overrated.

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04-22-2009 03:17 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: chipropRmann- You know I don't care too much for Cobb cards or rare backs, except for this one and the one you have.

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04-22-2009 08:59 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisYou asked how many of these Red Cobb's have been graded....I'll see if I can post that info tomorrow. TED Z

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04-22-2009 09:00 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> UPDATED survey....4/22/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..2....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..3....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..8....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..5....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..7....TOLSTOI 13....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 18....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 23....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 14....POLAR BEAR OK, we have a total of 151 inputs.....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 3/4 ths of the way there, and it's looking better. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have one ? TED Z

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04-23-2009 05:57 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Dave HornishTed: Some observations from looking at the data, all obvious, but interesting nonetheless. 1)The Piedmont 460/42 and Old Mill seem to be candidates for "easier" status. 2)The Sweet Cap 460/42's also seem pretty tough. In fact, with one exception Sweet Cap backs taken individually seem scarce in relation to many other backs. 3) There does not seem to be nearly as many of each of the "easy" backs as I would have thought. I suspect under-reporting is the cause of this. 4) When looked at as 4 groups, the distribution flattens out some. I may be off by a couple but get the following out of 149 backs reported: All Piedmont: 49 or 32.9% All Sweet Cap: 30 or 20.1% All OM/Sov/PB: 31 or 20.8% All Other backs: 39 0r 26.2% Piedmont has the most as expected, but the other three groupings as a whole are pretty close. Based upon overall ppn. of all Piedmonts to all backs, there should be a lot more Piedmonts out there yet to be reported.

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04-23-2009 06:12 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Frank A.This may be a stupid question, but why no 150 backs on this list.

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04-23-2009 06:16 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBTed, I didn't recheck these, but I pulled them about a week or so back. Graded red Cobbs: by PSA: American Beauty.......10 Carolina Brights......4 Cycle.................1 EPDG. .................4 Lenox.................2 O ld Mill..............19 Piedmont..............90Polar Bear............36 Sovereign.............13 Sweet Cap.............109 Tolstoi...............5 Ty Cobb...............1 Unknown...............800 PSA Total.............1093 by SGC: Unknown...............303

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04-23-2009 06:29 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisDave There is no doubt about it, the Piedmont 350 Fac 25 and Sweet Cap 350 Fac 30 red Cobb's have been under-reported. I think this may be due to most collectors on Net54 go for the tougher backs. A more random sampling would most like- ly result in many more of these two easier backs. Frank The red Cobb was printed and issued in the 2nd (350) series of T206 set in 1910. And, then was further printed and is- sued in the 460 Series in late 1910 and 1911. Perhaps, you are thinking of the Green Cobb which was issued in the 1st (150) series in 1909. TED Z

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04-23-2009 06:30 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: dan mckeea black Lenox and an American Beauty

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04-23-2009 06:35 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHey Frank A.... As I understand it, the white border tobacco cards were issued in a progression of series and brands. The series are somewhat obvious, the brand aspect isn't quite so obvious. Series 150 first, then 350, and last was 460. Green portrait cards and bat on shoulder (gray cap) Cobb cards were in series 150, and carried over into 350. Red portrait cards and bat off shoulder (black cap) Cobb cards first appear in series 350, and they continue into series 460. Ted Z can expand on this, no doubt. Scot Reader's great publication would help, too.

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04-23-2009 02:12 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI could not have said it any more succinctly than you did. TED Z

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04-23-2009 02:54 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisMy calculation estimates that there are approx. 5000 red Cobb cards in circulation. The Graded POP report you posted shows 1400.....where are all the other Cobb's ? Yes, there's guys like me that do not get my cards Graded.....I have 4 red Cobb's. And, I know of about 40-50 T206 collections that are un-graded with Cobb's. I am sure there are many more such T206 collections; but, we have to go a long, long way to come up with the difference. Any suggestions....besides saying my calculations are exaggerated ? TED Z

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04-23-2009 05:33 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI can see you parting with the AMERICAN BEAUTY Cobb....but, why didn't you keep the LENOX ? Let me guess....you got an offer for it that you couldn't refuse ! ! So, what back(s) is(are) on the Red Cobb(s) in your current set(s) ? Hey DAN....email me....tedzan11@comcast.net TED Z

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04-24-2009 07:46 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Jim VBInteresting question Ted. I certainly don't know the answer. You would think that more than 28% of the red Cobbs would have been graded by now. Maybe not though.

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04-24-2009 08:11 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Frank WakefieldSeems likely that several of them would have been resubmitted... As difficult as it will be for us folks here to accept, there are lots of collectors who either know not, or care not, about this board, the cards those folks have would remain unconsidered in this analysis.

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04-24-2009 09:54 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisFRANK W and JIM VB I would estimate the population of T206 collectors (and Ty Cobb collectors) are in the 1000's.....worldwide. Many of them are old "dinosaurs" (like me) that have collected these T-cards for 4 (or more) decades. And, have no interest in having them Graded. I have very few graded cards in my various sets (1887-1987). However, I do get Sports cards graded for the purposes of selling them. All that said, I'll apply my old axiom here...."we live in a 1/3 rd world"....therefore, if 1400 red Cobb's are Graded. Then, I speculate that there are another 2800 that are ungraded. And, I don't think the converse (1400 graded while only 700 are ungraded) is true. Also, no one has come up with how many Red Cobb's are Graded by Beckett, GAI, etc., etc. ? Anyhow, just offering my 2 Drachma's to this discussion. T-Rex TED

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04-24-2009 11:36 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Scott StifflerBeckett has graded 64 red Cobbs. I don't think GAI has a pop report that you can access -- at least I can't find one. I suspect the number would be rather small.

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04-24-2009 11:41 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: JimBSorry for my slow response to this thread. I have two T206 red Cobbs: SC 350 Factory 30 2nd Dist. NY, and Ty Cobb brand back. JimB

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04-24-2009 01:04 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThanks for your inputs....you have motivated me to add all 30 white-bordered Red Cobb's to this survey. TED Z

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04-24-2009 01:08 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ..1....TY COBB back ..0....1910 COUPON back ..0....T213-2 ..0....T213-3 ..0....T214 ..0....T215 T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/24/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..2....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..4....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... ..9....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..5....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..7....TOLSTOI 13....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 23....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 27....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 16....POLAR BEAR OK, we have a total of 164 inputs.....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 82% of the way there, and it's looking better. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have this one ? Until we see a real UZIT....I'll continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-24-2009 09:10 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisPlease note that I have expanded this survey to include all 30 backs of the Red Cobb card. I am now taking Red Cobb inputs from these 6 additional white-bordered issues....as well as the 24 - T206 backs. 1910 COUPON T213-2 T213-3 T214 T215 and the unique TY COBB back Thanks for your participation in this over all survey. TED Z

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04-25-2009 05:31 PM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedI've received two T213 red Cobb inputs and 4 - T206 red Cobb inputs. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ..1....TY COBB back ..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1) ..1....T213-2 ..1....T213-3 ..0....T214 ..0....T215 T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....4/25/09 Scarcest group...... ..1....BROAD LEAF 460 ..2....DRUM ..1....HINDU (red) ..4....LENOX (black) ..0....UZIT ..3....SOVEREIGN 460 12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 ..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS ..5....CYCLE 460 ..3....EPDG Next toughest group...... 10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 ..1....CYCLE 350 ..6....SOVEREIGN 350 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 ..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt) ..7....TOLSTOI 13....OLD MILL The easier ones...... ..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30 ..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25 23....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25 29....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25 16....POLAR BEAR We have a T206 total of 168 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 84% of the way there, and it's looking better. If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards. And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT.....does any one have this one ? Until we see a real UZIT....I'll continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> TED Z

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04-30-2009 10:36 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisOne more round on this survey....let's see how many more red Cobb's can be reported. Since the last update (a week ago), I have received several emails reporting these T206 red Cobb's...... CYCLE 460 PIEDMONT 350 OLD MILL POLAR BEAR SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30 SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 TED Z

tedzan

04-30-2009 05:47 PM

Red Cobb survey

new post testing

tedzan

05-01-2009 06:07 AM

Red COBB survey......UPDATED

Adding the the 7 new inputs from prior posts and one more new input.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/1/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
14....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
25....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
14....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
31....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
17....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 176 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 88% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

And, the only T206 back that has yet to be reported is the UZIT....does any one have this one ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-03-2009 11:41 PM

ted z.

after reading your "tale of two doyles" post, i am quite curious to hear what you might have to say about the rea cobb red old mill psa 5 that ended at more than $7000.00... :eek:
does that not seem perhaps a tad overly enthusiastic? :confused:

tedzan

05-04-2009 07:26 AM

Mark s

There is no way that anyone can figure out what is in bidder's minds during these auctions. This OLD MILL Cobb
received 30 bids to drive it's price up that high.

While another very sweet-looking Red Cobb (PSA7) with a Sweet Cap 350 back got only 17 bids....sold for 4750.

This does surprise me, as an OLD MILL back is not that rare on a Red Cobb to warrant such a difference.

TED Z

tedzan

05-05-2009 10:32 AM

Red Cobb survey.....UPDATED

Adding 6 new inputs that were emailed to me from Net54 readers.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/5/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
14....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
28....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
15....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
31....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
19....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 181 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 91% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

Still haven't seen a UZIT back....does any one have this one....I don't think the Red Cobb was printed with it ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

E93	05-05-2009 11:07 AM

Can't we include the red Hindu from REA?
JimB

Ladder7

05-05-2009 11:16 AM

Ted,

Sadly, you can add another Sweet Cap 350/30.

tedzan

05-05-2009 11:35 AM

JimB

If you scan back a page (or more) and check out the prior updates, you will find that it had been tallied.

I have now removed it until a 2nd one is reported. Consider me cautious....but, I have to be certain.

Jim....one graded card has already been withdrawn, since it has been deemed suspicious.

TED Z

tedzan

05-07-2009 03:47 PM

Red COBB survey......UPDATED

Adding 7 new inputs........thank you Net54er's.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/7/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....TOLSTOI
15....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..5....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
30....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
15....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
33....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
20....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 188 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 94% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

Still haven't seen a UZIT back....does any one have this one....I don't think the Red Cobb was printed with it ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-09-2009 06:07 AM

hey ted z-

aren't there TWO broadleaf 460 examples accounted for?
the one in your original entry (you posted a scan of the back),
AND brian e.'s from post #10...?

tedzan

05-09-2009 05:11 PM

MarkS

So far, only one BROAD LEAF 460 red Cobb has been reported.

TED Z

tedzan

05-12-2009 08:56 PM

Red COBB survey......UPDATED

We could continue this survey till we have 1000 samples and we would not see any significant difference.
The easiest backs would far outnumber the scarcest backs. So, this will be the last "roundabout" (Yes).

Six more new inputs added.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..0....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/12/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..4....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..8....TOLSTOI
15....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

32....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
16....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
34....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
20....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 194 inputs....we just might attain that 200 figure yet. We are 97% of the way there.

Hey you T206 (or Cobb) collectors out there........please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

Still haven't seen a UZIT back....does any one have this one....I don't think the Red Cobb was printed with it ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this "card" is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-13-2009 05:11 PM

survey says... two hundred AND one!

ted-
it is now time to share my seven heretofore uncounted entries...
carolina brights
lenox
old mill
polar bear
sovereign 460
sweet cap 350 30
tolstoi
congratulations on a highly interesting and successful survey!

tedzan

05-14-2009 06:09 AM

Mark S....

Thanks for your 7 red Cobb inputs. That is quite a collection....and now, we have attained the 200+ milestone.

I will update the list later today.

TED Z

tedzan

05-14-2009 06:02 PM

Red Cobb survey.....UPDATED

Adding a 1910 Coupon red Cobb and 12 more T206 new inputs......thanks everyone.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/14/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..7....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI
16....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

33....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
18....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
36....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
22....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 206 inputs.......BINGO....we have finally exceeded 200+ red Cobb's. I'm proud of all
of you that participated in this survey.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

sando69

05-21-2009 10:42 PM

revival...

this thread needs a jump start, so...
ted-
please add another sweet cap 460 factory 42 to the list.

furthermore, is it not perhaps time to discuss tweeking the scarcity list somewhat?
i would even suggest adding at least one more category...

nearly impossible.....broadleaf, drum, hindu, uzit
scarce.....................carolina brights, cycle 460, el principe de gales, lenox, sovereign 460
tougher...................american beauty, cycle 350, p 460/42, sovereign 350, sc 350/25, sc 460/25-42-42 op, tolstoi
easy.......................old mill, p 460/25, polar bear, sc 460/30
easiest....................p 350, sc 350/30 (since these two backs account for over 38% of all red cobbs surveyed, do they not deserve their own "common" category?)

tedzan

05-25-2009 06:59 PM

Mark S.

Thanks for your input....I thought this thread had vanished.

But, since you bumped it back, I will update it tomorrow, as I have 10 more new inputs to add to this survey.
And, I'll give your advice some consideration.

TED Z

E93	05-25-2009 07:17 PM

Question

Why is Piedmont 460 Factory 42 listed in the "scarcest" group when the survey shows it is much more common than all but one of the backs in the next easier category?
JimB

tedzan

05-26-2009 07:03 AM

JimB and Mark S

You guys are picky, picky.....but, I'll tell you what....I will modify the "scarcity" levels when I update this survey
later today.

Thanks for your suggestions.

TED Z

tedzan

05-26-2009 03:13 PM

Red Cobb survey

Nine new T206 red Cobb inputs......thanks everyone.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..1....T213-2
..1....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....5/26/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..6....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....SOVEREIGN 350
..3....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

16....OLD MILL
19....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
10....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

34....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
38....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
24....POLAR BEAR

We have a T206 total of 217 inputs.......BINGO....we have finally exceeded 200+ red Cobb's. I'm proud of all
of you that participated in this survey.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

B O'Brien

05-26-2009 04:38 PM

I currently have a Tolstoi Red Cobb.
Thanks,
Bob

sando69

06-25-2009 11:56 PM

well, ted... it's been a month.
do you have any survey updates for us?

sreader3

06-26-2009 12:28 AM

The percentage of Cobb (Red) examples with the Piedmont 42 back appears to exceed by a large margin the overall percentage of 350/460 subjects that bear the Piedmont 42 reverse. I have noticed this trend for years, but can't explain it. I would caution against modifying any back scarcity rankings based on a Cobb (Red) survey; Cobb (Red) seems to be an outlier when it comes to Piedmont 42.

tedzan

06-26-2009 10:31 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

MARK S

Ahh.....funny that you should ask.....just the other day, I tallied up all the Red Cobb's I have seen since this thread
was last up on the board.
Thanx for kicking up this Cobb survey.

SCOT R

You observed....."The percentage of Cobb (Red) examples with the Piedmont 42 back appears to exceed by a large
margin the overall percentage of 350/460 subjects that bear the Piedmont 42 reverse. I have noticed this trend for
years, but can't explain it."

The Red portrait Cobb was American Lithographic's "signature picture" for its white-bordered cards. Many of the 30
various Tobacco advertising backs, that it exists with, were double (or triple) printed. With Cobb leading the Major
Leagues with .377, .385 and .420 in 1909, 1910 and 1911, respectively......the Red Cobb was the "chase card" of
the 1910-1917 era.

I will be updating this survey today.

TED Z

tedzan

06-26-2009 11:57 AM

Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

Hey guy and gals....Does anyone have a Red HINDU or a UZIT....T206 red Cobb....to report here ? ?

UPDATED upon request to include Red Cobb new inputs from 5/26 to 6/26 across all the 30 T-advertising backs

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1910couponcobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbsov460.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/26/09

..1....TY COBB back
..1....1910 COUPON (Type 1)
..2....T213-2
..3....T213-3
..0....T214
..0....T215

T206 red Cobb....UPDATED survey....6/26/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..2....DRUM
..0....HINDU (red)
..5....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..4....SOVEREIGN 460
..7....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..7....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

10....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..8....SOVEREIGN 350
..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..6....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
..9....TOLSTOI

The easier ones......

20....OLD MILL
21....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
15....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30

The easiest ones......

52....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
47....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
20....POLAR BEAR

We now have a T206 total of 266 inputs.

But, still waiting to see a UZIT back....does any one have this one ? Perhaps, the Red Cobb was not printed
with it ? ?

Until we see a real UZIT....I will continue showing my "exotic" UZIT red Cobb.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

TED Z

Sterling Sports Auctions

06-26-2009 02:16 PM

Maybe I missed it in the thread but why is there no AB 460 possible?

Also, Is it possible that the Piedmont 42's, were printed on one or sheet with the Cobb double or triple printed? This would explain why there is so many. If there was 2 different print runs (350/460 and 460 only) and they were double printed this would actually make a 4 to 1 ratio on them.

Lee

tedzan

06-26-2009 03:03 PM

Lee

Re..P460/42, in prior post here I noted that I strongly feel that the Red Cobb was doubled-printed with this back.

Re..AB 460
None of the 6 super-prints (of which the Red Cobb is one) are found with the AB 460 back. These 6 cards were first
printed in the 350-only Series with the AB 350 (Frame) back. Subsequently, Amer. Litho. extended these 6 subjects
into the 460 Series.

Since they were initially printed with the AB 350 (Frame) back, they cannot exist with an AB 350 (No Frame) nor an
AB 460 (No Frame) backs.

TED Z

rman444

06-26-2009 04:10 PM

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2009/169.html

sando69

06-27-2009 06:53 PM

thank you, ted!

wow... an increase of 49 inputs in just one month!
you must have been scouring ebay for data.
thanks again for all the work you have done on this and for sharing it with us.
personally, i just love this thread!
noticed that the total number of polar bear subjects has been reduced by 4, to 20...
if this is accurate, would those numbers not suggest that p350 & sc 350/30 do, in fact, deserve their own "easiest" category, and that polar bear should be included with the "easier" backs that exhibit similar totals?

jmk59

06-27-2009 07:31 PM

Straight from the orchard where they grow these things, I would like to report a Red Cobb with SC 350/30. Sorry nothing more exotic. Maybe some unknown owner will ring in from Timbuktu with an Uzit. ;)

J

camlov2

06-27-2009 08:32 PM

I have seen a handful of threads regarding certain cards and their backs....

one question, Does it make sense to count cards that the owner no longer has?
Couldn't these cards have been passed to another Net54 member and be counted twice?

I am new to the boards so I don't know how much turnover there might be within the group.

tedzan

06-28-2009 06:55 AM

Mark S......

Thanks for catching the POLAR BEAR discrepancy. There were 5 new Red Cobb's with the PB back in the latest tally,
which raised the total to 29. I must have typed the "0" key instead of the "9" key when I inputted this data.

The easiest ones........UPDATED 6/28/09

53....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
47....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
29....POLAR BEAR

TED Z

tedzan

06-28-2009 07:20 AM

Joann

Thanks for your input of the Sweet Caporal 350/30

My guess is that Peter Lorre or Sidney Greenstreet from Casablanca will chime in with that elusive UZIT back.
Until then........

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abredcobbuzitms.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Hey Net54er's....this card is not that far-fetched....Cobb is quoted as saying...."Baseball was like War"....:)

tedzan

06-28-2009 07:33 AM

Camlov2

You asked......
"Couldn't these cards have been passed to another Net54 member and be counted twice?"

I have diligently taken measures to avoid any double-counting of Red Cobb's. Therefore, I am 99% certain
that this has not occurred in this survey.

But, if I'm off by 1% here....that amounts to only 2.6 cards that have been double-counted. I consider this
an acceptable margin of error.

TED Z

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