There is an Easy Coast National in New York every year. Why doesn't someone promote a West Coast National in California or Las Vegas? If it goes well then maybe dealers will ask for the National to be out west every few years.

The East Coast National is really just the name the promoter uses for the White Plains show immediately after the national. It is no where near the size or scope of the national. It just has an extra day or two added and maybe 5-10 more dealers squeezed along the walls.

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...oit%202022.jpg

There actually is way more than 288 dealers who do the national. Many dealers share booths with others and just one name is on the booth itself for registration and priority purposes. I think last year in Chicago and this current year, there are 600 total booths sold and probably 400-450 different dealers. This seems like the average number since maybe the 2008 National, which was the last time they used the side room for regular dealers. I don’t think the show moves back west until there are other major successful shows to prove that it would be worthwhile.
-Ted

I'm pretty sure we could buy that "venue" in Detroit for roughly 2 Poorly Graded 33 Ruth's :D

The issue is that the National requires you to set up each year or lose your “tenure.” Not sure if they allow for a year of opting out but if they did not, you’d have 124 upset East Coast dealers if there was a West Coast show.

I’d be willing to bet 90% of those 124 wouldn’t even consider the West Coast...Mainly because a large portion of them have “larger” set ups they’ve been operating with for 20+ years. The logistics of traveling 3000 miles isn’t even reasonable.

Detroit jokes! Always fresh, funny, and original.

All of the handwringing about The National going the west coast does not accomplish much unless there is a bloc of western dealers who can get together and come up with a plan. If a group of heavy hitters got together and ambushed The National you may get a reaction. You have a large card convention 3 weeks to a month prior to the National or a week or two later. Too early and you are tap dancing around the Fourth of July holiday and virtual (for now) school ending. If you have it shortly thereafter you may be able to tempt the west coast collectors who bite the bullet and begrudingly travel to Chicago or Cleveland. The appeal of a show that they can drive to within a few hours with more money in their pocket may sway quite a few. Southern California may be good. I am not too familiar with the convention centers down there other than Long Beach which is relatively small, but cheap close parking. People keep mentioning Las Vegas. Yes, they have a few convention spaces. I recall going to the one in the Venetian, I believe, for the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Show and it was a good size. There are always lots of hotel rooms except possibly during the CES (Consumer Electronics Show). The big issue, big as an elephant's butt, is the heat during the summer. Certainly you can move easily between some of the casinos with the monorail. However if you want to step outside and are not used to the heat it will be tough to take. Other cities may work like Phoenix or Denver. San Franciso too expensive overall. I view Dallas as no better than Chicago. It is really not west. It is more south central. If a dealer would not travel to Chicago why would he want to drive the 10 across AZ and NM and the 20 through most of Texas in constant 90º+ weather? Just some thoughts to ponder.

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Attachment 412700

Surely we will get a harsh rejoinder from all the upstanding 1960 used car salespersons who collect sportscards

This is hilarious! :D

Tenure
 

The tenure is part of the problem. When you walk into the National, the first thing you see is a bunch of dealers with 1980's products at 1980's prices. The tenure is what keeps new dealers from being able to set up.

I want to be clear. I love the National, but it could be so much better.

Should show 1989 donruss/ Topps littered and in junk piles around the buliding

I can appreciate bristling at the tired comments about Detroit. Just as stale as 'Mistake by the Lake' Cleveland. Since Detroit is 300 miles East of Chicago and 160 miles Northwest of Cleveland it is a moot point. It is still 'in the east'.

I recall back in the early days when there were shows on the West Coast, it was almost impossible for new dealers to reserve a spot due to all of the tenured dealers. I knew before I arrived, which dealers I would always see front and center at the entrance. And which dealers I would find buried way in the back. I was able to set-up by sharing a table with a lower-level tenured dealer - so we were in the back. We would know that once the doors opened it would take a good 30-45 minutes before we would start seeing convention-goers. Once they started adding corporate booths, the back of the show was a wasteland.

Tenure is a nice perk for loyalty, but it also acts as a negative to allowing new dealers to showcase their wares. Maybe some form of lottery for the tenured dealers allowing perhaps 70% of them to reserve tables and a randomized drawing for table location.

Bottom line, maybe this is the year to rethink how they have run the National up to now and perhaps new ideas and locations should be considered by a new group of individuals willing to take on the burdens/rewards of holding such an event. Monopolies are never a good thing. After all, if I'm not mistaken, the National began on the West Coast and is the location of most all of the larger-attended shows. And dealers from other areas of the country were more than happy to attend.

Just my 5 cents.

The intent of it moving around used to be to keep it fresh and not the same people with the same stuff over and over again. The peak of the hobby was when the show was still touring the west coast. I live in MN, but if I lived on the west coast I’d be pissed at this east of the Mississippi rotation. The mgmt could care less about dealers and are mostly concerned with driving around on their golf carts acting like big shots. The biggest shows they had were west coast and (although I don’t like them) PSA is in southern Cal. I flew to those nationals back in the day and I would again. I’d much rather take a vacation to southern Cal than Detroit, Cleveland, AC or some other place where the committee and can rent for basically free or close to it. To not have it rotate through California or Las Vegas is absolutely ridiculous. Ok, back to talking about how great Baltimore, Cleveland, and AC are along with how great he committee is for dealers.

National Shows
 

I don't remember if there was a National in 1980.

I definitely recall that the following Nationals were as followed.....

1981 Detroit

1982 St. Louis

1983 Chicago

1984 New Jersey

I missed the one in Detroit, but was at the St. Louis, Chicago, and NJ shows.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

\

1980 was the 1st National, Labor Day Weekend in the LA Area IIRC

Posting this from Wiki (because Wiki knows all, and is going to tell your mama on you)

1980 Los Angeles, California Los Angeles Airport Marriott Hotel (First NSCC Show)
1981 Detroit, Michigan Plymouth Hilton
1982 St. Louis, Missouri
1983 Chicago, Illinois Holiday Inn, O'Hare Airport
1984 Parsippany, New Jersey Aspen Hotel
1985 Anaheim, California Disneyland Hotel
1986 Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Arlington Convention Center
1987 San Francisco, California Moscone Center
1988 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Hall
1989 Chicago, Illinois Hyatt Regency Hotel
1990 Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas Arlington Convention Center (First venue to host two NSCC shows)
1991 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center (Over 100,000 attended, NSCC record)
1992 Atlanta, Georgia Georgia World Congress Center
1993 Chicago, Illinois McCormick Place
1994 Houston, Texas George R. Brown Convention Center
1995 St. Louis, Missouri Cervantes Convention Center
1996 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
1997 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
1998 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
1999 Atlanta, Georgia Georgia World Congress Center (25,000 attended, lowest NSCC attendance since the 1980s)
2000 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
2001 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2002 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2003 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Center
2004 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (First three-time NSCC host)
2005 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2006 Anaheim, California Anaheim Convention Center
2007 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2008 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2009 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center
2010 Baltimore, Maryland Baltimore Convention Center
2011 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2012 Baltimore, Maryland Baltimore Convention Center
2013 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center (First six-time NSCC host)
2014 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (Third-highest attendance - over 43,000)
2015 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2016 Atlantic City, New Jersey Atlantic City Convention Center
2017 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2018 Cleveland, Ohio I-X Center (Approx. 45,000 attendees)
2019 Chicago, Illinois Donald E. Stephens Convention Center
2020 Ain't gonna happen (my poignant commentary/prediction)

Brian

Probably some deals to be had at that 1980 show.

'smatter, Detroit, can't take a little good natured ribbing?

As for "All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside", well, I've been to card shows all over the place and I've run a few in Cali, and no matter where you hold a show you will get a bunch of fat white guys. It's a fat white guy magnet, like free pizza. Now I'm not saying most collectors are fat white guys but if you need to find a bunch of fat white guys, maybe as extras for a Destination XL clothing commercial, you pretty much would meet your quota at a card show anywhere in the country. And I am not just CEO of fat white guys at card shows, I am also a member...

Man to go back in time. As a younger collector, I do feel I missed out on a lot of opportunities, simply because I wasn't alive. I found the first print beckett price guide online and the prices on some of the cards, is straight up ridiculous. $15 for a 55 Clemente? $90 for a 33 Goudey Ruth.

Hell you could've purchased a mint set of 53 Topps for $350 (according to beckett at least)!

Would love if some of the older collectors could chime in on what it was like back in the day.

If only......

National
 

I would like to see a show in Denver or Omaha (very underrated town but probably not enough hotels etc..) I lived in Houston when the National was there. I lived in Detroit when the National was there. I dislike going to Chicago. Since I live outside Indianapolis, I drive up. I took my wife one time and she hated it, the traffic, the convention center etc.... I've been back twice but I drive to Kankakee the night before and stay there and then drive up for the show. She went with me to Cleveland and we had a great time, we drove. The hotel had a shuttle to and from the center. We stopped at the Pro Football Hall of Fame and the McKinley memorial in Canton. Had a great time. That's the other part of this if it were held somewhere else we would go. Especially if it is somewhere she hasn't been and if there was something else we would like to see in the area.

1981 show (not National), my first vintage cards, total $11.00

Brian

Proud member (?) of the OFWGC
 

I also am a member of the OFWGC (Old Fat White Guys Club). I don't know if I'd go as far as to say a proud member. Gotta stick to that diet.

It's like if you have a brother that just can't get his shit together, ever. It's ok for you to make fun of him, but if someone outside the family does it, you take it way more personally. So don't pick on Detroit...unless you live here.

And, there have been many big shows in Detroit. I remember meeting Al Rosen when I was about 12 at a show here that had dealers from around the country – I paid $5 for a 1969 Mickey Mantle card. Here's the ad from a show in July, 1978.

Attachment 412845

There will not be an East Coast National This Year:

As copied from their web site:

We have been informed by the Westchester County that all events that were scheduled to occur in the Westchester County Center for 2020 have been cancelled. This includes us and all other shows. The County Center is now a full Covid backup hospital with beds and medical needs and is prepared to be used at any time if needed during these terrible times. We have been told that this plan is going to continue until the end of 2020. We look forward to a full return in 2021 at the Westchester County Center.

The Local Long Island Shows are being cancelled one at a time because we are holding out hope for an allowed increase of people for gatherings. The current situation for New York is a 50 person maximum per gathering. Please keep checking back for further updates

Sorry, if you can't even handle jokes about your city... that's your problem. I come from a place that is constantly referred to as a "shit hole", and instead of acting offended or whining about it, I embrace it.... It's MY "shit hole", and I'm damn proud.

Now if you are insecure about Detroit or get upset because what people say about it is actually true, then that's something you yourself need to accept, or move.
This also applies if you are unfortunate enough to be a Red Wings fan :D

I would love if the "big" Hofstra show on Long Island in October can be held but it's looking increasingly doubtful. My professional association has already cancelled our annual October events in NYC and there are no plans for anyone to go back to Manhattan office buildings unless they want to at both my job and my wife's. My building in midtown, which has about 60% of 44 floors occupied by my firm opened to 10% max capacity about a month ago and five people total showed up the first week. It has not gone up substantially since.

Hey Detroit! Just remember you're not Windsor! Be positive.

Evem Cleveland people understand that's a better place than Detroit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIbmT2Rs8vw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

This is the 1st of those videos: Detroit is not mentioned in this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

Man, you guys are brutal! :D
Are you allowed to say people from Texas are dumb?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg53WYCPCjI

You certainly can, but then folks want to know if they were born there or just wandered in from somewhere else

BTW:

Steve Perry on South Detroit. *Hint, it does not exist*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRqKZnZ83sY

Nooooo Youtube links !
 

..please do not put a link to "Youtube" in any post I might read because I wind up going over thereand then searching and then watching Kristin Wiig trying to sing " Hallelujah" and my day is shot and I never get the yardwork done. Thank you.

..