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Posted By: Mike LucianoI agree with the new holder idea but the guys that have all these huge sets slabbed would very angry.I think that is what keeps them from doing this. Mike

Posted By: peter ullmanmaybe PSA can't afford the research and development to improve their holder these days? or maybe...they just don't care?

Posted By: dan mckeeI agree that the title of this post should be changed, PSA didn't scam anyone here and they are the victoms of a scam along with the people that lost their money. The title reads like PSA was scamming but that isn't the case here. And the streets of New York analogy was perfect. You can't expect PSA to be held accountable for this type of high tech scamming, it is just impossible for them to protect against it. It is very sad and unfortunate but not the gradings company responsibility to correct. <img src="" alt="<span">www.danmckee.com/pictures/types001.jpg>

Posted By: Frank"It is very sad and unfortunate but not the gradings company responsibility to correct." Dan, I agree that it isn't he grading company's responsibility to correct, but it is their responsibility to ensure the integrity of their name stays in good standing. If they are aware of counterfeiting of their product, they have a responsibility to the consumer who is trusting their product to be genuine and authentic. If word is circulating around that there are fake holders running rampant, do you think people will submit their cards to PSA for authenticating? PSA should look into providing a better product so that people can't counterfeit so easily. I do not use them specifically for the fact that their product looks cheap compared to SGC and BGS. If they are wanting to keep their client base, they may want to look at improving their system. Just my three cents. r/ Frank

Posted By: TimFrank, you are right on this one!! All the others who say that PSA has no obligation, is full of it. Forget about your rolex analogy, we're not talking about people collecting watches and sending them in for grading. You're comparing apples and oranges and it doesn't work with this issue. Sorry about the title but maybe it gets people's attention. PSA has done nothing to correct this counterfeiting problem and I know this for a FACT! They could have saved some victims from this forgery ring. Let me ask you something Dan..if someone decided to start a grading company called Positive Sports Authenticators(PSA), would PSA care? That's a trademark name, so if ANYONE uses their trademark, PSA would stop them. In order to protect the integrity of every PSA card that is owned by us, they have an obligation. I started this thread to prevent anyone out there from getting scammed like me so I'm apparently not a card expert but I certainly would have liked PSA to take a more proactive approach (since this has been going on since 2004). Here's an update from the case: One of the suspects, Cyrus Stivers has been arrested by police and informed them that Jose Hernandez was going back and forth to Mexico to counterfeit high-valued cards using sophisticated machines and them handing them off to Stivers who would receive 15% on the sale of these bogus cards. They are waiting for Hernandez to come back to the country but I think he has been tipped off. That's where the case is at this point. I would ask everyone out there to keep an eye on what's being sold through Ebay because no one wants people to purchase fake cards. I don't know whether the sellers know they're fake or just trying to recoup their money. In any event, we should let them know and protect the buyer. These cards are mostly pre-war and carry high values. PSA has done nothing of the kind to help people who have gotten scammed and that is NOT right. Enough of my banter, thanks for listening!

Posted By: Jim VBTim, You say: "PSA has done nothing to correct this counterfeiting problem and I know this for a FACT!" It may be something you suspect, but it's not something you can know for a fact. Any action PSA may have taken, would be behind the scenes, not overt. They would be foolish to publicize anything they were doing. Your refusal to adjust the title of this thread reflects irresponsibility on your part. This isn't, and never was, a "PSA scam." But then again, "Jose Hernandez Scam" just doesn't have that ring of sensationalism about it. Kind of like reading The National Enquirer. That's the level of credibility your thread oozes. I will give you credit for one thing though. I did not think it possible to start a PSA bash thread and do it so poorly that you could get Dan McKee to fall on the PSA side. That takes some doing!

Posted By: Fred CI would say that PSA has an obligation to protect their name and product. If I were them I'd be all over this and checking to see what law enforcement is doing. Honestly, I'm sure that they're doing this because ONLY A MORON WOULDN'T LIFT A FINGER FOR THIS. We hear Joe O is a moron but I don't think he can be a total MORON with a capital M, capital O, capital R, capital O and capital N.

Posted By: Jerry Spillman The 'PSA Scam' is an inappropriate name for this thread. PSA did not do the scamming. 'A scam involving PSA graded cards' would have been a more accurate and truthful title for this thread. I am sorry for anyone that has made a purchase and did not get the item that was anticipated. It creates not only a loss of money but a mix of disappointment and anger. I had a bad experience with an eBay crook some time ago. A better solution for avoid these problems in the future is for the card grading companies to use the digital imaging system. The coin grading company grades, labels, slabs then photographs both sides of the coin in its holder. The image is then stored in an Internet accessible database. Prospective buyers will be able to verify the authenticity of the coin prior to purchase.

Posted By: Fred CJerry, This is a good idea. I'd be willing to support a $3 surcharge for this being part of the grading process. The only problem is making sure the grading company scans it after it's in the slab. I'm sure they could figure this out. As much as I don't like some of the autograph authenticators I believe that some of them do this already. This is a no brainer type of service that should be provided. Personally, I think that maybe, the grading services could come up with a better way to encapsulate the cards that makes tampering a little tougher and creating a method of encapsulation that is more difficult to copy so that false/tampered encapsulations are easy to detect. The only problem is that the number of cards encapsulated is already pretty high. I suppose the grading companies could offer a low cost service where they could put originally encapsulated cards into the new type of holder. Maybe even figure on making a couple of bucks per encapsulation in the process.

Posted By: Richie After buying one these cards. I wonder how many cards in holders i have are actually fake. Kinda scary. If i didnt inspect the psa holder i bought with Mantle and not see frost around holder i would still have thought it was Authentic. Speaking to PSA they wanted me to send the card to them. I asked what they will do with it. They said they will remove it from holder and send me my card back. I did not send to them to tell me something i already knew. But I do think they are concerned. I dont see any reason they wouldn't be.

Posted By: StevePSA has done nothing to correct this counterfeiting problem and I know this for a FACT! Earlier you stated that the cons were using counterfeit slabs too, that was fact. You then flip flopped on that. You really have NO IDEA what they are doing. You, like the rest of us can guess. For all you know PSA was told to keep it's mouth shut by Law Enforcement or it lawyers. Probably the latter. You never answered my question either regarding was this a case where it was a too good to be true scenario? Lastly, if anyone is afraid to buy PSA graded cards do what I do. BUY from a legit source. Sorry if my post sounds a lil harsh. Steve

Posted By: RichieI will never buy any cards unless its from a reliable seller. The PSA case the card is in is a real PSA holder. The case is tampered with. The deal wasnt a knockout deal. A little under normal selling price.

Posted By: Bottom of the NinthWell at least when you buy a PSA graded card from a legit source you limit your exposure to simply getting an over graded or altered card. What a relief!!!

Posted By: Peter_SpaethAre those mutually exclusive?