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Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>I can't believe that Paypal kept most of his money until the seller acknowledges receipt of the product!!!!<br /><br />So that means if a seller never responds then Paypal keeps the $

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I was looking forward to spending my upcoming retirement time selling all the **** I've accumulated over the past 40 years or so. Ebay was going to be my chosen venue. I'm now having serious second thoughts hearing about all these changes.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I feel the same way. Ebay was the perfect venue for me to sell the items that weren't quite valuable enough for my catalog auction. And even if I charge my consignors 20%, will I walk away with more than pocket change after the fees are deducted? Sounds like a really bad situation.

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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Ebay owns PayPal. Awfully convenient for them that they eliminate two forms of payment (check, Money Order) for which they don't receive a 3% service fee.<br /><br /><br />edit to add: Barry, start a "Pamphlet Auction" for the lower grade stuff.

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Posted By: <b>Iggy...</b><p>Wow, freaking unbelievable!<br /><br />Here is the direct link to the paypal news...<br /><br /><a href="http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/Payments/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/Payments/</a>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Anthony- I've actually been looking for ways to shift the lesser items into my catalog, but the cost of printing one with low priced items is prohibitive. And the pamphlet idea crossed my mind- kind of a 8 x 11 one-sheet that lists all the lots and directs bidders to the website.<br /><br />I'm not there yet but something has to give somewhere. My overhead is too high, plain and simple.

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>it does suck for us...but the majority of sellers/buyers on ebay like paperless payments imo. i buy other stuff on ebay like notebooks, phones, etc. and most sellers PREFER paypal and the no headache hassle of dealing with the other 80% of the population known as idiots and flakes. the part about paypal witholding the money is scary, but from what i read it was only for low feedback sellers.<br /><br />it's also a good move on ebay for the buyers...when you shop at amazon/buy/newegg do you send out checks? i would be way scared sending out an MO to some of these guys from tennessee with no protection.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Quan, there's no doubt it's more convenient to get a PayPal payment than a paper check in the mail box. With PayPal I get an email saying the $$ was put in my account before I opened the email. I have nothing against time saved.

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Posted By: <b>Eric Pugh</b><p>The paypal thing is really not that big a deal except for high end items. The 30 day fixed listing however will I think greatly reduce the number of true auctions - which might make auctions that much more appealing as long as there are enough to keep the bidders around.<br /><br />The biggest issue with me is what are the new fees going to be? They are already approx 8-9% in total with ebay and paypal - if it goes any higher then incredibly, Ebay might just indeed succeed at killing themselves in the end.

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Posted By: <b>D. Bergin</b><p>It says the fees for the auction style listings will stay exactly as they are.<br /><br />The back end fees on successful fixed price listings are going up.<br /><br /><br />This is a bunch of bull however:<br /><br /><i>Today, items paid with check or money order are 80% more likely to result in an item not received (INR) than those paid with credit card or PayPal. Also, buyers who pay with check or money order are 50% more likely to leave negative feedback than those who pay with electronic methods. So starting in late October, 2008, we are moving to 100% electronic payments - credit cards, ProPay, or PayPal.</i><br /><br /><br />Most of my customers pay with Paypal but some don't like it and are perfectly good customers. I'd like the option of not losing those customers and saving a little on my fees from time to time.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>For those "perfectly good customers" who don't like paypal just agree not to complete the transaction (wink, wink).

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Posted By: <b>D. Bergin</b><p><i>"For those "perfectly good customers" who don't like paypal just agree not to complete the transaction (wink, wink)."</i><br /><br /><br />That what I wonder Steve. How will Ebay enforce this? Will bidders get a non-paying bidder strike automatically against them if they don't pay through Ebays system?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I would think, though I could be wrong, that the seller is the one who has to initiate the non-payment strike. I say this because I think there is a procedure where the parties can agree not to complete a transaction and eBay goes along with it.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Without low cost options to sell on-line...shows might become relevant again. Who know's Barry might have to start setting up again <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>One thing no one has mentioned yet and I can almost guarantee will happen, you will most likely see a big increase in shipping from the Post Office. the USPS is going gto take a big hit with th eBay changes. Lot fewer postal money order sales and NO more people sending payments in the mail. As much as sellers may take a hit to the pocket book, USPS is going to get hammered!

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>I hope not. I'm sure the future will unveil more than one usable alternative that will soon supersede eBay unless that company thinks better of its latest decisions.

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>To me, it looks like eBay is trying to transform themselves from a Mom and Pop flea market to an electronic retail outlet for large businesses.<br /><br />Now, some company can dump 1,000 of the same item on eBay, at a fixed price and keep it there for a month and it only costs them .35 cents per listing which is a LOWER cost than what they had before.<br /><br />If this is what they are trying to do and if eBay were SMART, they would just start a SEPERATE company and keep the larger businesses on that side and let the Mom and Pop stay on eBay.<br /><br />Because remember, the FOUNDERS of eBay only started the company because they wanted a better way to buy and sell Pez dispensers for their collection.<br /><br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Why would ebay want to kill an entire category of sales? Since it doesn't make good business sense to dump a bunch of your customers for nothing, perhaps there are ulterior motives. Like streamlining compliance with anticipated tax authority information demands. <br /><br />I do not plan on using ebay as a seller after the change to all electronic payments. Paypal is simply too arbitrary and unfair to work with the general public and there are too many loose ends. The change is going to dramatically increase shipping costs because of the need to make sure every item complies with Paypal's requirements for seller protection. No more SASEs or shipping anything for less than the cost of priority mail with delivery and signature confirmation. And what about really expensive items? Currently the best way to ship is registered mail. Ebay doesn't integrate that option into its Paypal service right now. Will it later? What about private carriers, UPS and Fed Ex? <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>i agree david, they're trying to go from an online auction house to more of a retail front with the fixed pricing and uniformed electronic payment...except they don't have to stock or inventory like buy newegg etc. how successful they are depend on how their seller base respond.<br /><br />since the mark up on cards is around 150-175% of current market value, the change should not affect the vintage card dealers much either way.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Barry already has the website, he should just run weekly auctions with his software. Run a few ads here on Net54 and OC and cut out ebay.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>if people knew Barry was running weekly auctions, he could forgo ebay completely............plus no printed catalog. <br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Charlie- don't think I will be setting up at shows anytime soon. When you factor in airfare, hotels, and table costs, ebay may still be cheaper. Plus, I couldn't sit still long enough to man a table (I know you said that tongue in cheek).<br /><br />Dan and Tom- I do have the website and in lieu of weekly ebay auctions I could do weekly website auctions, but: I still maintain the number of people who look at ebay is enormous, and I would have a hard time attracting new blood on just my website. This is a tough decision for many, and those who say they will abandon ebay will still be losing something. Don't know yet how this will all shake out.

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Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>&gt;when you shop at amazon/buy/newegg do you send out checks?<br /><br />Yes, I mail personal checks to Amazon, along with a printout of the order page.

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Posted By: <b>boxingbaseballgolf33</b><p>I agree with Barry, I looked into setting up at more shows, and have thought about my own auction site, and still will think about it. The cost can really add up, having a website and eBay is a good combination for me at this point. I also will be sending more cards to auction sites, but will still focus on eBay. We will just have to wait and see what happens; the changes have not affected me too much yet. The changes on ebay will certainly keep my eyes open to new opportunities.<br /><br />Jimmy<br />

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Someone mentioned that the USPS will take a hit. I was thinking they would benefit since Paypal will hold funds therefore more folks will use signature confirmation.

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Posted By: <b>Robert Klevens</b><p>It was stated above that Paypal held the funds of a seller until the item was received. Was this because the buyer filed a claim? I can't believe that Paypal would hold money from a seller for no reason.

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Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>I can't believe that Paypal would hold money from a seller &gt;for no reason. <br /><br />From what I have read, they collect interest on the held funds at an obscene rate of return. Something like 5% quarterly. Quite a tidy little profit scheme to hold the sellers' money for as long as possible.

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Posted By: <b>ScottDaloisio</b><p>We have been selling on eBay for nearly 11 years. As far as them banning checks and money orders, the only problem I have with that is it may cost a few bids and affect the final price realized. We sell 100-200 lots per week (mostly jerseys). In the last 10 days, we have taken in four money orders (none as of yet this week). So on that end, they are not as convenient as PayPal.<br /><br />One thing that puzzles me, though, is they tried 100% PayPal in Australia and it was a disaster from what I heard. <br /><br />They controlled the market for so long they grew complacent and lazy. Now that they are feeling heat from the competition (lots of heat) they are scrambling and not always making the correct decision. It seems like they are directionless (or in the wrong direction).<br /><br />One thing I do like is the new DSR deal of below 4.3 and you are gone. This will rid eBay of more of the scumbags.

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Posted By: <b>Lance</b><p>Wow! I decided to finally take a look at this thread and quickly reverted my attention to the emails from Ebay, that I have been ignoring, and I can't believe what I have read. It seems the communist party has taken over the company. For me, the last straw was Ebay telling me how I can accept the payment. Ridiculous! They are no longer concearned with seller satisfaction and are gearing for one thing... PROFIT. Sad day for all who have helped build Ebay with their loyality.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Hufford</b><p>If Ebay ends up having problems, it will certainly change - for better or worse - the current products put out by Topps, Upper Deck, etc. (I know, this is a vintage forum and they're not vintage, but....).<br /><br />I lost interest in the shiny stuff these companies are producing a long time ago - but there are those out there who really go after the stuff. The past couple of years, though, I have enjoyed the Allen & Ginter sets that Topps has put out, and I have put the "mini" insert sets together. With these cards seeded at only one per pack, and several hundred cards in the set, it would be impossible to put these sets together by simply buying packs or complete boxes or cases of the cards. And as far as the sets put out by these companies, if you're a "single player" collector, it would be impossible to find the cards of your favorite player that are numbered to only 5 or 10. You could go to every show in your local area, or the National, and never find the cards you want.<br /><br />You CAN find these cards via an auction site like Ebay, though. Dealers know they can buy a box, open all the packs, and pretty much find a market for all the low population cards, making their money back, plus a profit.<br /><br />If it becomes too expensive, or simply too much trouble, for dealers to sell on Ebay, the market that lets Topps and Upper Deck sell the products they do today will simply dry up. There's no way they could sell today's product, at pretty high prices, to a customer that has no way to put together a set or find the player/card that they want.<br /><br />Not that some changes to todays cards wouldn't be welcome, but I don't want to see the manufacturers go out of business. There needs to be some current cards, if just to document players for the future, if nothing else.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>At the National I watched a younger guy, maybe late teens or early twenties, buy approx 10 $100ea boxes of New cards to start trying to "pull" some kind of 1 of 10, or something?.....I was fascinated by the whole over zealous process. There were a few people filming it. People were filming card collecting!! That can't be bad. I also hope the few card companies left can make it. Nice post, btw....

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Posted By: <b>Robert Klevens</b><p>This response was posted on the Ebay forum by an Ebay employee<br /><br />If a seller has "legacy" customers who prefer to pay you with an paper payment, you are free to accept these payments if you so choose. If a buyer contacts you and asks if they can pay with a paper payment method, you are free to do so. What will change in October is that sellers will no longer be able to provide the options for paper payments in either their description or emails to buyers.<br />

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Andrew S. wrote: "From what I have read, they collect interest on the held funds at an obscene rate of return. Something like 5% quarterly. Quite a tidy little profit scheme to hold the sellers' money for as long as possible."<br /><br />Who is ebay collect interest at a 5% quarterly rate from? This doesn't make any sense.<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Daloisio</b><p>What may be interesting is the eBay call in show. It is on tonight (Thursday) starting at 8:00 PM EST. Cut and paste the link below into your browser and you will be able to listen in. You can also call in and participate.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.wsradio.com/internet-talk-radio.cfm/shows/eBay-Radio-Ask-Griff-Show.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.wsradio.com/internet-talk-radio.cfm/shows/eBay-Radio-Ask-Griff-Show.html</a>

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Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>Who is ebay collect interest at a 5% quarterly rate from? &gt;This doesn't make any sense.<br /><br />PayPal collects interest. Not eBay....although eBay does own PayPal. PayPal collects interest on your money when they hold seller funds.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>I think he is referring to the 5% per quarter part. That's 20% interest per year. Not possible.

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Sorry for the confusion and my very poor grammar. I'll rephrase the question:<br /><br />Who is paying Paypal 5% interest on a quarterly basis?

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Posted By: <b>Andrew S.</b><p>Although PayPal is not insured by the FDIC because it is considered to be a deposit broker, PayPal itself has thousands of accounts in one FDIC bank. Even most of the employees at PayPal don't know the name of the FDIC bank the money is deposited in....probably only the finance director and a few other select individuals (CEO, etc.) Due to the extremely large amount of money PayPal deals with, the bank in question cuts them a special deal and pays 5% quarterly interest on the balance in said accounts. This is what I was told by a friend who used to work for PayPal up until 2007. So it is in their financial interest (greed) to hold seller funds as long as possible in order to reap the high interest returns.

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>They absolutely collect interest on accounts. All companies with cash on hand, even if it's from their own customers, collects interest on the money. To not do so would be foolish.<br /><br />I even dealt with a company that bought and sold equipment without making a profit on the equipment. They demanded payments from their customers and strethched out paying their vendors for months. their entire profitability was interest on this float.<br /><br />But no company gets 20% interest per year. The max is about 5% per year. But still it's 5% which is better than nothing.

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Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Andrew, thanks for elaborating. I still have a tough time believing it. I will assume there is a miscommunication or misinterpretation at some point in the line. Maybe it is my misinterpretation. When you say 5% quarterly, I assume you mean for every $1 million they have in the bank, the bank pays them $50,000 every 3 months. Assuming no interest on interest for a minute to make the calculations simple, that would amount to $200,000 on the $1 million. That's what it sounds like you are saying. If that's the case, I'd really love to know which bank it is, because it will be bankrupt soon.

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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>Sounds like the same gig banks have with the escrow payments for Ins. & Property Taxes that accompany most mortgage payments.