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Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>Venom? what venom?
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>I collect for myself and no one else. While I like a certain aspect of the hobby community, I have often felt I have very little in common with those who collect vintage baseball cards, particularly on this board. That's not to say I try to be inaccessable, hardly the case. The point is, if someone wants to drop out of the hobby in a public or private forum, fine, more power to them. These ARE STILL ONLY BASEBALL CARDS. When you die in a few short years, someone else will have them anyway. We can't be so absorbed with these cardboard trinkets that we take them for more than what they really are.
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Rich-<br />Good job.<br /><br />Cobby33<br />UCSB '91- Go Gauchos!
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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I don't see any venom in Mr. Dorskind's post either. It is certainly more benign than dozens of posts I've read on this forum in the past. In fact, a couple of posters agreed with him and a couple others basically told Mr. Brennan to cut out the drama and leave. <br /><br />Also, I'm sorry to hear about the lady with cancer but I don't see how it relates to Mr. Dorskind's post.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>CN</b><p> It seems lately that when a person decides to stop posting they have to anounce it. What is the purpose of this, I can,t think of any. Nothing personal but if you don't want to post anymore just don't. This is a fun hobby and one less collector will not change much in the scheme of things. CN
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Posted By: <b>P</b><p>Well I have disagreed with a lot of Bruce's posts but I think all he is saying here is that the baseball card hobby is subject to its bad side like so many other things in life and that it's better to stay and fight than to quit. That seems a pretty benign point of view. It seems to me the negative reaction he is getting may be to some of his other posts?
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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I won’t be making any announcements when I decide to quit posting or collecting. I’ve decided on a made for TV movie. <br /><br /><br />Still tossing between Jim J. Bullock and Richard Kline to play the role of Wonka...<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/jim-j-bullock.jpg"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/kline2.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><br />Danny DeVito has confirmed the role of Leon.<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/danny.jpg"><br /><br /><br />This just in Jim Backus to play Bruce Dorskind....<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/1981_5130_1_1.jpg">
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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Phyllis Diller? <br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Maybe they aren't actually venomous, but you guys who are now leaping on the bandwagon to defend Bruce might want to ponder these words, from the oracle himself, about Joe's post:<br /><br />"The world is cut throat...it is kill or be killed...in politics, in war, on Wall Street<br />and in collecting rare baseball cards.<br /><br />If one does not have the courage to take the heat, then go off quietly into the sunset."<br /><br />For most of us, this is a HOBBY, right???
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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Adam, that would be hot!
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Tim,<br /><br />You quoted the section of Bruce's post that got me livid. He draws an analogy between politics, war, Wall Street, and the Hobby. For me at least, the Hobby allows me to get away from politics, war, and Wall Street. Now Bruce points out this ridiculous analogy...and I feel like choking all of the Dorskinds. At least those that belong to the "we" that he always refers to. <br /><br />Peter C.
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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>I agree with those posters who say that perhaps you should wait a bit before selling your cards. If in fact several months down the road you still feel the same way, you can always sell them then. But should you have a change of heart (as happened to a number of posters when they experienced similar fellings), then you'll regret having made the sales.<br /><br />In regard to Bruce, while I agree that he could have expressed his views more sympathetically and less provocatively, the gist of his post I happen to agree with. Don't let the unscrupulous players chase you out. Instead stick around and fight for change and chase them out. All businesses have their share of bad apples, but there are many more good apples in a bunch than bad ones, and those good ones can lead to very satisfying transactions and, more importantly, friendships. Also, and I say this from experience because I collect in areas other than baseball: there are unscrupulous players throughout all areas of collectibles and I do not believe baseball is any worse than the others.<br /><br />Finally, what has allowed me to maintain my passion for collecting is 1) putting it in its proper perspective (I do it to relax and escape from life's pressures, not to get me mad at the world) and in regard to the shaddy dealing that exists within the hobby, making a conscious effort to "look at the bagel, not the hole" and 2) acquiring my own expertise in those areas I collect, thereby making me less dependent on the knowledge of others (including authentication companies, whose opinions are just that, opinions) and therefore more immune from much of the shaddy dealing.
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Posted By: <b>Perry Eaves</b><p>All this fuss over a relatively small group of low grade t206 cards?
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I don't think Bruce meant any harm with his post. He tends to go overboard in his use of language to make a point. While he may be inartful when using hyperbole he is informative and, at least in my mind, appreciated. It's not like he championed the Virginia Tech shooter as 'noble' or compared what the shooter did to what George Bush did in Iraq, right Peter? I bet that would really make you livid if someone did that. You might even want to 'choke' all of the people who said something as idiotic as that.
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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />I would have posted much sooner...but it is back to school for me and my time on the board becomes limited. I hope that you read through these posts and take some of the advice. For the last five years I have been a full-time collector, checking eBay and the board like a stock broker checks daily prices. Before that it was very sporadic, a few months on, a few months off based on various circumstances. I have been selling a lot recently both on the board and eBay. 90% of my transactions on this board have very positive but the cash that our little pieces of musty cardboard generate can attract the greedy element. An individual purchased a group of cards from me recently, negotiated heavily stating that these were pieces desperately needed for his personal collection. We came to an agreement and less than a week later the cards were being sold on eBay. At that point what am I to say, the cards are his, we agreed to a price, do what you want with them. I am sure that just about every board member can relate stories like this one. But as I said, for every transaction like this one I have had nine positive interactions.<br /><br />And what about your vintage football pursuit? Our numbers are already very thin. Hope that you reconsider. Whatever you decide thanks for your contributions.<br /><br />John
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>While Bruce made some good points, and some over the top ones, he always distances himself from the board and has no interest in making friends with anybody around here. And he knows very well when he posts that he will make many people angry, and he doesn't care a lick. He might even enjoy it. He always gives the impression that he is talking down to everyone and nobody likes that.<br /><br />And this notion that the hobby is like a fight to the death is preposterous. 95% of the people who collect cards do so to get away from life's daily pressures. And for the other 5% who are very competitive, most are still friendly with the people they compete against to get the best cards. Even a lot of the set registry people compete because to them competition is good fun, not a deadly fight.
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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p>1) The venom line referred to the last line of his post<br /><br /> "If one does not have the courage to take the heat, then go off quietly into the sunset."<br /><br /> As I said earlier, making a decision to give up a hobby AND more importantly, leave a message board (or a group of friends, which to many of us this board is) can be an emotional decision. A post like the one which began this thread is not always a goodbye but it can feel like that to the poster, and thus he (or she) needs to have an appropriate venue to bid everyone a fond adieu before heading off into the sunset. <br /><br /><br />2) Bruce and myself will always disagree on various topics about the hobby. I do understand that and it's not a problem for me. However, Mr. Sloate nailed the real issue, which is, the more one distances themselves from potential friends and allies, the less likely someone will help them when the time comes to acquire items on "American's Toughest Want List". Bruce, try a little honey some time, it might get you even more items on your list.<br /><br />Regards<br />Rich <br /><br /><br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>I agree with Barry 100 percent. I attended the PSA luncheon at the National and it is evident that it is really just friendly competition among the registry collectors.
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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>The only thing I learned on this thread is that Bruce is an anti-Catholic bigot.<br /><br />Why is this tolerated here? Worse, why is Bruce being extolled by some for his so-called good points? That post should be deleted, as per the board rules.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Perry, that's the second post of your that I've seen like that. Are looking to join Bruce in the Pompous, Arrogant, Collector Club?<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.
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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />We wonder what element in our post was Anti-Catholic and/or<br />what line supported any form of bigotry?<br /><br />Is the poster denying that there were thousands of victims across<br />America and around the world? Does he support the concept<br />that members of the clergy, regardless of religion, should not<br />be removed when they are convicted of unspeakable acts<br />against minors? <br /><br />Perhaps the poster should print out the quote he references and<br />bring it to his place of worship. Ask the clergy member<br />who leads his congregation what he or she thinks.<br /><br />We anxiously await the response.<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Posts about religion are frowned upon on the board. Maybe we could steer this back to baseball cards.
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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>It's amusing that you now add "regardless of religion" references, and ask questions that any normal person would answer "yes" too. You digress, but only because you were called out.<br /><br />I come to this board to read about old baseball cards, not to field pot shots at my religion.
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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p> He certainly did not show any religious bias in his post. He pointed out, and without any sign of prejudice, that the Catholic Church has had problems in recent years and many people who believe in that Church are doing their best to fix said problem. Let's not read more into the post than that.<br /><br /> Now, let's go back to discussing cards -- a much happier subejct<br /><br />Rich
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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Who's better PSA or SGC? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Now those are fighting words!
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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Rich -- I disagree. Non sequiturs are very revealing. And a ridiculous, inflammatory analogy between fraud in this hobby and Catholicism should be condemned, not excused.<br /><br />I've seen this group get a lot more exercised by far less.<br /><br />Anyway, it isn't worth getting too upset about Dorskind Group musings.
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Posted By: <b>Brad</b><p><b>Vote Brad For President</b> <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GlbMHbgUuL8"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GlbMHbgUuL8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Brad,<br /><br />You have my vote...let's put it this way you are better than the current group of politicians running for President. We're approaching the end of the month...it's time to let out a little bit of steam. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter C.
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>So we've gone from calling pro-choice advocates "baby killers," to wildly speculating that there have been "thousands" of victims of wrongdoings of agents of the Catholic church. What next? On second, thought- don't answer that.<br /><br />I actually didn't disagree with the spirit of Dorskind's first post, "yet those who attend Chuch have not abandoned it...they are<br />working to make it better." However, the added "explanation" made it absurd and vile.
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Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Perry Eaves,<br /><br />Ok, you don't collect lowgrade cards. We get it.<br /><br />Who cares?<br /><br /><br />Joe, <br /><br />Best of luck to you with your collection.<br />Take care.<br /><br /><br />Robert
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Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>"Perhaps the poster should print out the quote he references and<br />bring it to his place of worship. Ask the clergy member<br />who leads his congregation what he or she thinks."<br /><br />Perhaps the follow-up poster should print out all of his posts and take it to a team of world-class psychiatrists. Either he has a mouse in his pocket, hence the repeated use of "we", or he is channeling Sybil, and "we" is accurate, but not necessarily healthy. <br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>"Thousands" of victims is no "wild speculation". The John Jay Report, commissioned and endorsed by the Catholic Church itself, found over 10,000 plausible reports of sexual abuse of children by over 4,000 priests between 1950 and 2002. Surely some of those priests are innocent but since this is a notoriously under reported crime we can be sure there have been more cases than the 10,000 or so cited in the report. In addition there have been a large number of priests, bishops, etc., who did not molest children but participated in cover-ups. <br /><br />Howard<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Is this sort of discussion really necessary here?
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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Joe,<br />You seem to be writing about a specific transaction that went poorly? I don't know what you are talking about, but if there is any value to be added to the folks here by sharing the experience as a "What to look out for" type of thing, please post.<br />Otherwise, best of luck to you finding another hobby where everyone has integrity and is worth placing your faith in...I doubt it exists, but I am a cynic, so when you find it, please post that too! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />And to the Board in general, I just wanted you all to know (particularly since I suspect you have all been waiting for my post on this thread), that when I decide to take a break from the hobby, I will be announcing it as well. -And I expect that post to create much fanfare and possibly huba-baloo. I will probably request Wonka's articstic abillities in delivering the message.<br />Furthermore, I will also be posting semi-regular announcements from here forward, to reiterate my continued participation in the hobby, just to calm any periodic fears that I have somehow exited The Show,...-until you see the previously aforementioned and above-referenced exit statement.<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />This is so much fun!<br /><br />-oh, yes, and....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Peter is right. This is not the forum to discuss the allegations of non-sports related news items. I guess in my line of work, I am accustomed to convictions and settlements (although not always) being indictments of guilt: not inadmissible reports and yes, speculation.<br /><br />I apologize for making an issue out of mis-information publicized on the Board, which is not related to sports and sports cards, but sometimes I can't help refraining from calling out complete and/or over-exaggerated BS; or at least asking to be educated by supporting documentation of these statements.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>I'm glad that you're keeping your sense of humor through all of this. Hopefully, you will not be leaving us any time soon. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter C.
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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Sorry to bring this up again, but a quick internet search would reflect that the numbers cited above are not false:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.catholicnews.com/data/abuse/abuse04.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholicnews.com/data/abuse/abuse04.htm</a>
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Posted By: <b>Mike Garcia</b><p> The only people who should be allowed to use the editorial "we" or the Royal "we" are editors , kings , and people with tapeworm.
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Posted By: <b>Perry Eaves</b><p>This is not life and death folks. "all this fuss over small group of low grade t206 cards" Correct. Go for a long walk, play catch with your kids, tell your wife you love her. (OK, went too far with the last one) Deciding to sell a small group of cards and treating it like a major life move is simply absurd.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Yeah, I agree with Josh -- over a billion dollars paid to the victims of sexual abuse by members of the Catholic Church ain't chump change. That being said, I hardly think the abuse reflects much on the Church. After all, there are bad people connected with every religion. When bad behavior becomes the average behavior for a religion then there is a bigger problem; clearly that is not the case with the Church.
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Posted By: <b>joe</b><p>Just curious, has anyone on this board ever met Bruce? Does anyone even know him?<br /><br />Joe<br><br>Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!
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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>I thought it was a "them".
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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>We wanted to meet him to say hello at the National, but we never saw him.
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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I repeat: why do we need to be having a discussion about this? Is it relevant to something? We get into some pretty o/t stuff here but this seems to be pushing the envelope. EDITED TO ADD JK, respectfully, if you are sorry to bring it up again, why did you?
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Posted By: <b>Andrew Parks</b><p>I met Bruce once.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I've known Bruce for 20 years and have gotten together with him numerous times.<br /><br />He really does have a nice collection with some really superb pieces. But as I have told him many times, he could find a kinder and gentler way to communicate on the board.
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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Barry,<br />Can you tell if he said why he does not do that?
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>David- I just do not know why. I know some board members have asked Bruce some of these questions, but he has not responded.<br /><br />In the end, it's his call. I just can't speak for him.
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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>A sad day Perry is that you feel the need to take a jab at a guy’s collection as he rolls out of the hobby, regardless of his reasons.<br /><br />I agree I don’t think we need an announcement, but we also don’t need your snide elitist remarks discussing your views of the current quality of the mans collection. <br /><br />“This is not life and death folks. "all this fuss over small group of low grade t206 cards" Correct.”<br /><br />The truly sad part is what a total lack of class you display with the above comment.<br /><br /><br />So what grade cards warrant an announcement and a sad day Perry? <br />
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