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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Can we extend your Ramly TWO-PART "laminate" process to T206's ?<br /><br />I have always contended that the T-brand backs of T206's were pre-printed in cardboard sheets<br /> separately.<br /><br />And, the T206's fronts printed on a very thin laminate which when the 4-6 phase color process was<br /> complete, the fronts were appliqued onto the back sheets.<br /><br />I arrived at this conclusion by closely examining T206's, that I acquired, whose fronts were chipping<br /> or actually separating from the back layer.<br /><br />Your thoughts on this ?<br /><br />TED Z <br />

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Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>My answer is NO, the T206's were not a 2 part process. <br /><br />My reasoning for this is the fact that we do not find the obvious 2 parts adhered together in a hap hazard fashion like the Ramly's which exposes both halves on the edge, further we find the T206's with both front and back misaligned and matching, not 1 centered, 1 off centered. <br /><br />BUT, I believe the biggest indicator is the sheer amount of T206's that have been soaked, and none, at least to my knowledge, have separated. Had theses been 2 part they would come apart with very little moisture. <br /><br />Also, I have no reason to believe that the T204's and T206's were produced by the same company.<br /><br />Others' thoughts?<br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>I also say no.<br /><br />Having done just about everything imaginable to a t206 (and others) I've never seen the card split or ever start to become two parts. In studying the edges I have also never seen a "weld line"...something to look for on rebacked cards. When dissected at various angles the cardstock has always been one solid piece.<br /><br />To start off, each piece would be paper thin. IMO printing on something so thin then joining the two together would be problematic (just a thought). <br /><br />Scott's comment about soaking and front / back alignment would also be true.<br /><br /><br />Kevin

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Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>I hope I wasn't implying that T204's and T206's were produced at the same facility. I know better<br /> than that.<br /><br />Depicted here is an E-card and a T206 whose fronts are in the process of disintegration.<br />Lest, I be accused here (by some) of altering these cards....I will tell you that these cards were<br /> acquired by me in this condition many years ago. The cause of this damage I can only guess that<br /> it is attributal to extreme harsh environmental conditions.<br /><br />The Coombs card is in a state of progressive disintegration of tiny film-like flakes from its front.<br /> While the Walsh card exhibits larger flakes chipping off its front.<br /><br />My point in showing these is to demonstrate the difference between the front very thin like "layer"<br /> of these cards and the thicker cardboard of the backs.<br /><br />TED Z <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/coombswalsh.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>Ted, <br /><br />I know you know they weren't produced by the same people, that was just a general statement.<br /><br />In regards to the 2 cards you posted, i would imagine moisture or humidity allowed the cards to become stuck to what ever card was on top of it and upon someone attempting to separate the 2 card the paper pulled off. I am willing to bet you have encountered some old finds and found some of the cards literally stuck together, because they had been stored in a damp basement or attic. <br /><br />E98's are a bit different, as are E94's,they seem to flake quite easily, I believe they may have been printed on a clay coated paper which does allow the top layer to flake off, B& W T209's are another issue where this is commonly seen.<br /><br />Scott

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“Perhaps if you approach Kevin in a private email instead of on a public forum his answers may a little less "cryptic" just an idea... I think the main point Kevins trying to get across is while there are factory misprints and printing scrap, etc. there is also the potential for some to be homeade examples too.”<br /><br />Dylan,<br /><br />I have no reason to email Kevin, his statements and inputs have been in a public forum hence my responses and questions to Kevin have been of a public nature. Also if Kevin really is keeping this info top secret for whatever reasons I would be very shocked to find out via email he’s willing to open the can of beans.<br /><br />Yeah I understand Kevin is trying to help us by making us aware I can get that as a motive, however making us aware with really no insight is kind of pointless IMO. We know there are people committing crimes/scams everyday in the US art forgers, insurance scams, identity theft etc. But with out knowing how to protect ones self all you really end up as is an aware victim waiting to be had.<br /><br />“The people that trim/alter cards and try and sell them as if they didnt, those are the real bad guys. If Kevin were one of those guys it would seem pretty self defeating for him to come on an open forum and discuss his abilities to do so wouldnt it wonka?”<br /><br />Dylan, maybe yes maybe no. It’s hard to say but once again I’m not going to lie that the thought has crossed my mind and Kevin innocent or not by some of his posts and statements made me raise my eyebrow once or twice. <br /><br />Hope this clears up my position with you once again. Because at this point I hope I’ve made my thoughts pretty clear to everyone agreed or disagreed. Really any further discussion on this topic would be beating a dead horse and dragging Kevin along for the ride which I’m not interested in doing. <br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />John<br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree about dragging the dead horse but I have to say that if you read Kevins last post I believe he came forward with some real, hard facts, info.....I appreciate everyones input on the forum.....now where is my Hair Club of America- CY Sperling membership card?

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Leon, I’ll be the first to say yes Kevin’s last post was an informative post agreed.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i appreciate what kevin does, i do, and his last post was informative, but that was after several of us leaned on him to be more descriptive and less cryptic.

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>&lt;"but that was after several of us leaned on him to be more descriptive and less cryptic."&gt;<br /><br /><br />Leaned on me?? I can assure sir you that wasn't the reason, I was just trying to answer Ted's question <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.<br /><br /><br />oh btw...I'm white, Jewish and left handed <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i'm italian, catholic and right-handed.<br /><br />a few of us pointed-out that you can be more descriptive with your posts, and you responded. thank you.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>You forgot to mention one handsome SOB Mike…or is that Dar I’m thinking of???

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i'm the handsome one, although Dar gets ALL the girls, i swear, he has so much "game"...<br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>