EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Updated 6/14 and added Wilhelm to the list. <br /><br />Please check-out these seven T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350.........SC350. ......Sov350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............14............3............1... .........1<br />(Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............18............2............1.... ........1<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............20............3............1.... ........1<br />(St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............15.............0............0. ...........1<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........17.............1............2..... .......1<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........20............0............4...... ......2<br />(throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Wilhelm..................13............1......... ...0............0...........1<br /> (hands at chest)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 144<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 7......and Wilhelm SC350 = 1<br /><br />Come on you T206 afficiandos....we need your contributions (it doesn't cost you anything)<br /> to this SURVEY to see if these particular T206's have Sov 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 backs ? ?<br /><br /><br />Edited to add inputs from BARRY and BRIAN <br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> Check with David Seaborn(Old Oriole), as he sold a large group of Sovereign's last year and may still have some pictures. Be well Brian

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>How do I contact David ?<br /><br />I am interested....as my next project, upon completing the PIEDMONT-only set,<br />may be a SOVEREIGN-only set.<br /><br />TED Z

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Dave Seaborn</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Brian is right (good memory Brian), I had a very large group of T206 Sovereigns last year. Let me know what info you need, I'll try to see what I can dig up. You can put it here or send a more detailed message if you like (oldorioles@aol.com).<br /><br />Dave

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Dave....thanks for responding here.<br /><br />Do I know you from the Philly Show ?<br /><br />I am considering starting a Survey on Sovereign backs, similar to the EPDG survey.<br />This is possibly a lead-in to starting a SOVEREIGN-only set of T206's.<br /><br />I am 26 cards shy of completing a 518 card PIEDMONT-only set. So, I need a new<br />challenge.<br /><br />Ted Z<br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>steve yawitz</b><p>Wilhelm SC 150/30<br /><br><br><a href="http://imageevent.com/yawie99" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/yawie99</a>

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>David Seaborn</b><p>Ted-<br /><br />I'm about to send an email to you, let me know if it's helpful...

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>DAVID S<br /><br />Received your data and I am studying it.....thanks.<br /><br />How about it guys......any more inputs on these 7 - T206's of interest ?<br /><br />TED Z

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>I just acquired a the last two Lindaman cards I needed to complete all the possible backs<br />that are available for this particular T206. This is a subset of my T206 collection and I will<br /> try to continue this very interesting challenge for quite a few cards in this set.<br /><br />Just another way of collecting T206's that I thought you T206 guys might find satisfying.<br /><br />T-Rex TED <br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/alindamanb.jpg">

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>congrats, TRex!<br />they look great.<br /><br />i'm going to go pull out my Lindaman EPDG so my 'green with envy' will diminish at least a bit. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Congrats on getting all the possible Lindamans.<br />Any sign of Ewing or Schulte with 350 yet?<br />Scot

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Have ever came up with a thoery as to when the EPDG were printed? with the Ewing EPDG and no 350's what doesthis tell us?<br /><br />Lee<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Ted<br />Nice display of the Lindaman cards.<br /><br><br>Drew

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It's my understanding that Scot R. (in his document) and Brian W. (in posts) both have<br />addressed when EPDG backs were first introduced. That EPDG's were simultaneously<br /> introduced at the very beginning of the 350 Series cards.<br /><br />The Ewing card (with several EPDG backs) appears to be an exception to this "rule",<br /> as no 350 Series back have been reported (yet) in three different surveys.<br />Be patient....as the Tom Jones and Vive Lindaman cards have proven (later rather<br />than sooner) a Piedmont 350 back will eventually surface for Ewing.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Lee,<br /><br />It may be that EPDG printing started early on (earlier than, for example, Old Mill) and that at least some of the well-known 150-only subjects [e.g. Brown (Cubs on Shirt), Burch (Batting), Evers (Blue Sky), etc.] will eventually surface with the EPDG back. I base this on the Net54 Ewing survey that revealed him with EPDG and the fact that my own eBay survey data shows one instance of Brown (Cubs on Shirt) with EPDG--although admittedly I could have recorded this wrong or it may have come from an ebay listing that included the wrong back scan.<br /><br />If you'll indulge wild speculation, perhaps EPDG printing started AFTER Hindu, Piedmont 150, Soveriegn 150 and Sweet Cap 150 but BEFORE the 350 series printing, leading to a very short printing of at least some of the 150-only subjects with EPDG.<br /><br />Of course, it may be that my Brown (Cubs on Shirt) data point is wrong and that Ewing surfaces with Piedmont 350, in which case Ted's above analysis carries the day.<br /><br />Scot

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Lee's question reminds me that in your Spread Sheet....you show an EPDG back<br />for Mordecai Brown (Cubs)....a 150-only card. This unusual card really throws a <br />"monkey-wrench" into all our theories ?<br /><br />Do we have an explanation for this ?<br /><br />I ask this because of the Ewing card, which possibly there is no 350 card of him.<br /><br />TED Z<br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R.<br /><br />Here we are 2000 miles apart and our minds are on the same "wave length".....<br />simultaneously.<br /><br />TED Z

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />See my post just above your query, which I have edited.<br /><br />I see two possibilities:<br /><br />1. Conventional wisdom holds: My eBay survey data point is wrong and Ewing exists with 350. This means EPDG print began with 350.<br /><br />2. Conventional wisdom is wrong: My eBay survey data point is correct and Ewing does not exist with 350. This means EPDG print began before 350.<br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Updated 9/25/2006 <br /><br />Please check-out these seven T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350.........SC350. ......Sov350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............18............3............1... .........1<br />(Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............21............2............1.... ........1<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............22............3............2.... ........1<br />(St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............16.............0............0. ...........2<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........21.............1............3..... .......2<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........21............0............4...... ......2<br />(throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Wilhelm..................17............1......... ...0............0...........1<br />(hands at chest)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 167<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 9......and Wilhelm SC350 = 1

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Here is a list of cards that have 150 cards and only Sweet caps in the 350 series from Bill's data. Does anyone have any of these cards in 350 other than Sweet Cap?<br /><br />Bradley Port<br />H. Davis<br />Doolin<br />Gibson<br />Griffith Port<br />Hahn<br />Herzog NY<br />Lajoie, throwing<br />Lobert<br />McQuillan, throwing<br /><br />do we have others out there?<br /><br />lee

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>LEE B<br /><br />We have gone through this exercise before on Bill Brown's recent Thread.<br /><br />1st....I have the following P350 backs in my all-Piedmont set:<br /><br />Bradley (port)<br />H.Davis<br />Gibson<br />Lobert<br /><br />2nd.....Scot Reader's Survey shows P350 backs for.....<br /><br />Doolin (port)<br />Griffith (port)<br />Hahn<br />Herzog<br />Lajoie (throwing)<br />McQuillan (ball/hand)<br /><br /><br />Lee.....I am still providing front/back inputs to Bill Brown.<br /><br />But, more significantly, you cannot keep using his Spread Sheet as the final<br />word on these T206 backs. At this point, Bill's SS has only 3000-4000 samples.<br />The cumulative total of three other survey's exceeds 20,000 cards.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /> <br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Sorry Ted,<br /><br />I tried to find any other thread that had the info in it and coould not. <br /><br />Sorry to tread on YOUR thread, it will not happen again. I will no longer be responding. Good luck with your research.<br /><br />I believe that Bill has good close to 20,000 examples just 3,000 unique ones. That is where my questions arise.<br /><br />Lee

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>LEE B<br /><br />No problem guy.....and don't be apologetic about it. You certainly brought to our<br />attention a valid question regarding the backs on some of these 150/350 Series<br />T206's.<br /><br />We still have not seen a Wilhelm (arms at chest) P350. But, as you observed there<br />exists an SC350 version of him. I was hoping you would start a new survey Thread.<br /><br />I'm not trying to be contentious, Lee. After all these years we are really starting to<br /> unravel some of the mysteries of this set. First, we have Bill Heitman to thank for<br />his precedent-setting book; and recently, Scot Reader's great document.<br /><br />Lee....don't stop posting here.....you are keeping me honest, really.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Hi Lee<br /><br />I have a Herzog NY with a Piedmont 350 back.<br><br>Drew

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I just went through the Sovereign collection and all the backs you surveyed were Sovereign 150, except for Jones which was Piedmont 350. So no new light shed.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Barry Arnold and Net54 T206 guys<br /><br />Found this neat advertisement this past weekend in a nearby antique store.<br />No reference to BB cards, as this adv. preceded the T206 set issue by a year. <br /><br />El Principe de Gales first started producing Cigars in the mid 1800's.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br /><img src="http://www.freephotoserver.com/v001/tedzan/aadvepdg.jpg">

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>hi trex<br /><br />many thanks for the display of this beauty!<br />as you indicated to Lee, the breadth and depth of these recent 206 backs<br />discussions continue to be most illuminative, no matter what tributary we<br />find ourselves travelling.<br />again, a great ride!<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br /><br />There is a Wilhelm (Hands at Chest) with a Piedmont 350 back on ebay right now. See link below:<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/T-206-KAISER-WILHELM-BROOKLY-DODGERS-PIEDMOND-BRAND_W0QQitemZ300034120024QQihZ020QQcategoryZ8684 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/T-206-KAISER-WILHELM-BROOKLY-DODGERS-PIEDMOND-BRAND_W0QQitemZ300034120024QQihZ020QQcategoryZ8684 0QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a><br /><br />Is that the last of the 150/350s that hadn't previously surfaced with Piedmont 350?<br /><br />Scot

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks SCOT<br /><br />Sooner or later, I knew a P350 back for this card would surface....I, too found<br />one, the link is posted below. Suddenly, two of them, when for a long time we<br />did not see any.<br /><br />More significantly, we still have 3 cards that have not really been confirmed<br />as 150/350 cards.<br /><br />And, also the six 150/350 cards, that I contend exist only with P350 backs,<br /> have not surfaced with any other Tobacco brand backs in the 350 Series.<br /><br />But, once again, I think we have exhausted interest in these surveys.<br />Whatever.....I will be posting another T-card controversy sometime soon.<br /><br />T-Rex TED<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Kaiser-Wilhelm-Hands-at-Chest-Brooklyn-SGC-30_W0QQitemZ300033302832QQihZ020QQcategoryZ57993QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Kaiser-Wilhelm-Hands-at-Chest-Brooklyn-SGC-30_W0QQitemZ300033302832QQihZ020QQcategoryZ57993QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem</a> <br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Mike Ernst</b><p>Just getting caught up on things after a summer of Corvetting rather than baseball carding.<br />Of the 7 cards in question, 6 are 150-variety. Wilhelm, hands at chest is a Piedmont 350.<br />So now there are three of them very recently reported.

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p> <br />Updated 10/2/2006 <br /><br />Please check-out these seven T206 (150/350) cards in your sets and give me your inputs<br />regarding their backs.<br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350.........SC350. ......Sov350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............18............3............1... .........1<br />(Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............22............2............1.... ........1<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............22............3............2.... ........1<br />(St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............20.............0............0. ...........2<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........25.............1............3..... .......2<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........21............0............4...... ......2<br />(throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Wilhelm..................17............1......... ...0............3...........1<br />(hands at chest)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 179<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 12....and SC350 = 1<br /><br />T-Rex TED <br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>I have received a couple of emails with new inputs on these 7 cards. And, I am on my<br /> way to pick up a small collection of T206's.....which include several of these particular<br /> cards. Therefore, I will be updating this Survey for the final time this afternoon.<br /><br />So, you T206 guys....this is your final chance to contribute your inputs to this survey.<br /><br />Thanx for your time and effort on this subject.....it's been a great ride.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Thank you for the great ride, TREX!!!!!<br />and who knows, we may have a little bit more to go once we hear about<br />your additional information.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>BARRY A.<br /><br />All the credit is attributed to you for having the intellectual curiosity to initiate<br /> what turned out to be one of the most interesting and certainly more informative<br /> Threads that I have seen in the relatively short time I have been on this Forum.<br /><br />Your EPDG thread's timing....along with Scot Reader's great analysis of the T206<br /> set....has enlightened many of us "die-hard" T206 collectors. I definitely can say<br /> that I have gained a greater appreciation for the complexity of this set.<br /><br />Thanks again, TED Z <br /><br /> <br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Final update 10/6/2006 <br /><br /><br /><br />Player............150-type......HINDU......EPDG......P350.........SC350. ......Sov350<br /><br />Bill Dahlen.............20............3............1... .........2<br />(Boston)<br /><br />Bob Ganley............22............2............1.... ........1<br /><br /><br />Tom Jones.............22............3............2.... ........1<br />(St Louis)<br /><br />Ed Karger..............21.............0............0. ...........2<br /><br /><br />Vive Lindaman........25.............1............3..... .......2<br /><br /><br />George Mullin..........22............0............4...... ......2<br />(throw-Horiz)<br /><br />Wilhelm..................24............1......... ...0............5...........1<br />(hands at chest)<br /><br />Total # of inputs = 193<br /><br />Total # of P350 = 15....and SC350 = 1<br /><br /><br />Thanks to everyone who participated in this Survey.<br /><br />T-Rex TED <br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koochin</b><p>Ted, can you elaborate on your thoughts as to why Karger and Wilhelm<br />are not appearing on El Principe de Gales? Pehaps too small a sample size?<br /><br />Pesonally, I suppose the EPDG print run of those subjects already in 150<br />series did not last long (months?) <br /><br />And, in the case of Wilhelm, I find it hard to believe both SC and Piedmont<br />issued it before EPDG. (doesn't fit the brand issue time-line suggested by Lipset)<br /><br />Nevertheless, thanks for sharing this data with the board <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>TRex,<br /><br />many thanks for the kind words.<br />i find myself continuing to 'chew on' the Piedmont Primacy Theory which<br />you have delineated for us in such groundbreaking ways.<br />i think this particular part of the research will continue for years to<br />come and has the most potential for keeping generations to come Mesmerized!<br />A great ride for a very long while, methinks.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>DAN K<br /><br />It's good to hear from you, it's been a while.<br /><br />I added Wilhelm to this mix, since in other recent surveys, the question arose that he<br /> was listed with only a SC350 back. For a long time (25 inputs long) thiswas so. Then,<br /> just in this past week, 5 - P350 cards showed up (3 on Ebay & 2 via Emails to me).<br /><br />So, my point is, if we were to continue this survey, an EPDG back would eventually<br /> show up for this Wilhelm card. Recall, in the original EPDG Thread, only 1% of any<br /> given size collection yielded an EPDG back. Does that mean we might have to wait<br /> for a 100-card sample......No, I am sure an EPDG will show up sooner than that.<br /> This Wilhelm card goes "deep" into the 350 Series.<br /><br /> John Scott, who collects T206 Dodgers with every possible back has this Wilhelm,<br />with an OLD MILL back. Wilhelm is certainly much more available with an assortment<br /> of backs than the above six cards originally noted in this survey.<br /><br /> Speaking about these six....you also asked about Karger....this card like the other<br /> five did not go "deep" into the 350 Series. Therefore, I am not that certain that<br /> an EPDG back will surface for him. At the time the 350 Series was being produced,<br /> Karger was traded to Boston, so possibly the T206 designers did not want to<br /> continue printing this Cincinatti version with any other backs beyond the P350.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

EPDG Thread......summarizing this T206 survey
 

Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>I just purchased another EPDG card<br />Rhodes portrait St. Louis Natl<br><br>People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.