Some maybe, but not most.

She is from the small town I live in. Her brother is my age and while it was still open they had a really cool big display for he at a restaurant.

Ben, if you ever get the chance, can you give her a little spank on the backside from me?

The other day I was waiting at a red light not far from home and observed two young women on the sidewalk, not talking but each staring into her own device. My own daughter when she's over sometimes will actually email me from the living room LOL.

My sons who are in their 20’s will have full conversations not lifting their heads from their phones.


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Etiquette can be a funny thing. I had a dealer at a show last year get audibly pissy with me because I had the audacity to have my phone out, checking VCP - whilst standing in his general vicinity. His response was to complain loudly to another customer about how unfair it was that everyone was just using their technology to lowball him, ostensibly instead of engaging in some type of conversation first about what I recall were either his mostly missing - or mostly unreasonably high - sticker prices.

I'm always cordial, friendly, engaging - all of the above - when making an offer on cards. Because I'm well informed, I very rarely if ever anymore pay sticker.

I guess I can see the guy's point, but really would he rather me follow the reverse model of the crotchety old men the row over on the dealer side who are pulling out dated Beckett Annual vintage guides whenever they are inquired what they will let something go for, (and then hemming and hawing for 5 minutes before quoting a price)? There needs to be a happy medium somewhere without everyone getting offended...

On the other hand, I know some dealers who will match any comp (they say, anyway...) and actively encourage price comparisons on the show floor. I guess you never know.

Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I noticed how hyper dependent many people are when it comes to their phones.

Just as a side note, I was complimented today by a coworker for wearing an actual watch, rather than a smart watch. Is the bar truly that low nowadays?

Possibly. You don't see it super often anymore, especially among those under about age 30. The only other watch I have besides my Apple Watch is my Dad's 1969 Bulova Accutron 218. You certainly don't see many of those anymore. It's funny sometimes when I forget I'm not wearing the Apple Watch and try to "tap" to pay with 1960 tuning fork technology. :D

Slightly off topic, ever since I started purchasing/wearing watches I have felt a little bit better about not constantly staring at a screen!

I have encountered that too, but you captured it better than I could have! Thanks for the laugh!

I believe that most people are interested in quick easy transactions and no longer care about relationship building. I persona believe that building a relationship between myself and dealers is very important on both ends of the deal. The collector can get a little better deals since the cards will not be flipped or first offer at a tough to find card. The dealer gets repeat business, somebody actually interested in their cards during a downturn and potential leads on something they are looking for. Unfortunately, technology has made it very easy to buy and sell all but the rarest cards with little conversation needed.

Amen!


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Good business
 

I sell around 75 items a week on eBay, with no problems. I have over 600 followers in my store and about 80% of my sales are from repeat buyers. I like to think that part of my success is because I respond respectfully to every private message as quickly as I can, even low-ball offers that I cannot accept.

Thanking customers for their interest in our cards and treating customers the way that we would like to be treated is always good business.

Best regards, Joe

Nice. Is it the round one or the tonneau? Either much better than your Apple, imo.

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🏆🏆🏆

I agree that technology has played a part but I think the biggest change is down to parents. The behavior of some children is a by-product of the parents and how the raise their children. When I was a boy my parents made me wait my turn. They didn't allow me to talk back to adults, etc. I'm guessing that most of us grew up with the same experience.

In the 1960s and 1970s we were able to play outside and have independence. We could ride off on our bikes and meet our friends. So long as we were back by supper, everything was OK. In every decade since, the tolerance for risk has gone down. It's gotten to the point where many parents don't let their kids play outside or they insist the kids can be tracked on their mobile phone 24 hours a day.

There are parents who won't let little Johnny or little Jane lose out on anything. They step in to ensure there's no risk of a bad outcome.

As a result there are kids out there who have grown up not able to assess risk, deal with losing. They are left with a complete sense of entitlement. Voila....bold, brash kids and teenagers who don't respect any authority that doesn't give them what they want.

more context on this one?
 

This one seems a little ambiguous to me - you say you asked him to let you know, but did he ever actually agree to do that? From the seller's perspective, he may have felt pressured to give you a better deal than market price, and didn't want to do that, which I can sort of understand- unless there was an understanding between you--

Good discussion here.

I think as whole, there is both work for the buyer and seller to do.

As a buyer

1) Do your homework. Know what general comps are and make a fair offer. I am not a fan of, "do you have room as this?" Instead, throw out a numerical offer that makes sense. It's fine to be low, but be reasonable. I've been guilty of using the "having room" question, so I've had to work on this as well.

2) Don't be offended if the dealer can't come down on price, even if it's at comps. They are selling their card and they can make the rules. If you don't like it, go find another dealer to work with, but it's not a reason to get upset.

As a seller

1) Don't get offended with offers. Just tell them no politely and keep moving.

2) Price your cards on the front end and keep relationships in mind for the long term. How can both the seller and buyer win in the short/long term? Sometimes it's better to not make a deal and not burn a bridge over a few bucks.

Both- Get to know buyer and seller. Ask them about their story and what got them into the hobby etc. The relationships in the hobby are what makes card collecting so wonderful along with the great cards.

I bought a 56 Koufax from an awesome net54 member/dealer at the Dallas show this year. He and I were pretty far off on price, but ended up meeting in the middle to make it work. The reasoning for both of us...we'll both be back and I'll want to buy from him again. He will also definitely be making some $ off me in the future.

Win win!

I sell rare reptiles and amphibians (as a side hustle as my other hobby) and its the exact same. I would say 95% of people who inquire about pricing, ask questions, etc. never even respond. Not even a thumbs up or a thank you (and it shows when theyve read the messages) even when I take my time to give them more information than I need to. I dont get it.

Since it's Halloween, I'll offer this: An educated seller is a buyer's worst nightmare. :eek:

“I sell rare reptiles and amphibians”

As one does.

The 2024 Allen and Ginter "Oregon Zoo X-RAYD" set has a few cool looking reptile cards, fwiw.

They're thankfully not rare or expensive, but they're really unique cards that present like they should be more of a rare insert.

I love reptiles. When I was a kid I volunteered at the Houston Zoo, in the reptile department. That was way cool....

My opinion is it is the internets fault society is the way it is. :) The instant, multiple-gratifcation, society.

"When I asked him about it, he stated "Well, I didn't want to squeeze you on price, so I just sent it to the auction house to sell". Sigh, no, you wanted to maximize all the profit and not give me the opportunity to buy."

My perspective on this is that for many/most pre-war cards, it is simply not possible to predict what will happen at auction. This makes it very hard to "negotiate" a price that makes both sides comfortable. The 22 percent vig is worth it to convince both parties that the deal is fair. And should avoid regrets. Trading is safer when feasible because it requires both sides to forego the opportunity to benefit from catching two motivated bidders in the same auction.

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Got any Inland Taipans?

So you did have the opportunity to buy...at auction. Can we all assume you own this unique card now? If not, sounds like you wanted to squeeze your "friend" for a deal more than you wanted that card.

Did you ever make him a concrete offer? You certainly should have so he could have some idea of where you were at. Again, if not, sounds like he could sense what kind of squeeze you were going to try and put on him and decided that's not the kind of thing he enjoys negotiating. Some people don't want to engage in that kind of personal, one-on-one, way of doing a sale. Can make for unneeded stress and/or uncomfortable feelings, depending on personality type.

Great seller and a good person

No, because I found out about the card being for sale after the auction had ended. If I had known, I would have bid on it.

Again, I couldn't make an offer on it as he wasn't willing at sell at the time. Otherwise, I would have.

He said he would. Then he didn't.

I am kind of taken aback by the last 2 responses to me.

If someone had a card you really wanted, you were friends, and you told them that wanted first crack at it, and then they sent it to an auction house and you found out later about, you are just supposed to be fine with it? I disagree 100 percent.

It would be very disappointing, of course. It definitely would have been courteous to let you know it would be available at auction, but I think you are discounting what an uncomfortable situation it seems it was to him. Having a card that's rare and presumably hard to value, a friend transaction probably didn't seem like a fun/fair undertaking. And I'm sure the term 'friend' here is used in a more casual hobby chums way than some kind of deeply cultivated relationship.

I agree. A selling situation is, by definition, adversarial. The seller, naturally, wants the sale price to be the highest number possible, and the buyer, naturally, wants the price to be as low as possible. I've been involved with many such negotiations, and it is very easy for the situation to become testy. The seller values his item and wants to feel good about making a nice sale, and the buyer starts to point out flaws that should bring the number lower.

The OP may have lost out on a card, but, depending how he ultimately chooses to look at it and how he chooses to react, he may have saved a friendship.

Bear in mind, that "friend" never even let him know the card was up for auction. The OP didn't find out until after it had sold.

Some citrus logic:
In reality, every collector and every seller lives off 'the squeeze' to obtain or offload cards at the right price.
That squeeze becomes more of a bitter lemon when it's a friend or acquaintance on the other side of the deal.

Again it seems like Money is all that matters here...sadly not the friendship...at least tell you it's being auctioned along with when and where said auction is taking place.

I can definitely appreciate that it’s not a simple situation. At the same time, with a decent relationship and two sides willing to be adults, it doesn’t have to be all that challenging. I’ve certainly done a number of deals and also passed on a number of deals with friends with very similar facts.

Usually the friend tells me how much they need for their piece, at which point either I pass, take the offer, or counter. If it’s something that I really want, then usually I’m willing to pay just about any price, at least within reason. But maybe that’s what helps with my situation. Often I’m willing to pay a lot for my grails, so it’s less likely to result in tension with my friend as the seller. And if I’m not willing to pay the asking price, then we’re adult enough to stay friends even if the deal on the table didn’t work out.

And I can appreciate that it doesn’t always work out so neatly. But I can virtually guarantee that if my friend sent the piece to auction, he would tell me about it, if for no other reason than wanting me to aggressively bid on it to help maximize the final auction price.

I'm certainly imagining this friendship as hobby acquaintances who discussed the card on multiple occasions over the course of several years or more but who might very well not have chatted in the year+ preceding the sale. Seems unlikely it was an ongoing, frequently interacted friendship and the seller was witholding information about selling at auction while simultaneously carrying on conversations with his hobby friend who was knowingly interested in it.

It isn't all bad. Same thing happened to me with a card a friend owned. I asked him to let me make an offer if he ever wanted to sell it. He sent it to an AH instead. I got it for less than I'd been willing to pay him in a private sale.

Which is the same thing as saying Money is what matters.

Putting it up for auction is telling the OP that the seller wants to maximize his number. "I'm not interested in selling to you directly because I'm betting someone else will pay more."

Maybe the seller didn't feel comfortable telling the OP, essentially, "Sure, I'll sell it to you, as long as you pay more than everyone else who is interested in it."

I think most comments here agree the seller had a perfect right to put the card up for auction, and the difference of opinion is how he should've handled it with the OP - should he have told him about the auction. All I'm saying is that, yes, in a perfect world where business dealings are handled in a purely rational and unemotional way, the seller should've told the OP about the auction.

But I can easily see how the seller may have been concerned about the OP's reaction. Sometimes the people who are dismayed that "money is all that matters" are prospective buyers who think people should sell to friends at below market because money shouldn't be all that matters.

I am slow to take offense with friends. If I didn't trust their character, they wouldn't be my friend. So I give them the benefit of the doubt, and accept their judgment in handling a situation as reasonable, even if I don't know or understand all the reasons. That's what friends do. Letting it bother you, even all this time later, is NOT what friends do. The fact of the matter is, they may have had valid reasons for doing it this way, they may have had reasons you don't consider valid, or they may have simply forgotten. In any of these situations, being upset with your friend, and even holding onto it after the fact, are just as poor of behavior as the slight you believe you have received.

To chime in regarding a somewhat similar situation.

A few years ago, on this board actually I was in search for a 1952 Berk Ross Mickey Mantle. Charlietheexterminator reached out to me offering me the card, raw. It presented beautifully but possessed a mark on the back. Charlie offered me the card at a reasonable price, raw, but also stated that If I didn't want it, there would be no hard feelings and he would get the card graded and then sell it himself.

I obviously took the deal. The front presents beautifully, it remains in my collection to this day as Charlie sold it to me. He didn't have to be that transparent, he didn't have to outline an entire scenario. Hell he was willing to meet closer to me here in NY to hand me the card in person.

There's plenty of goodness in this hobby. I'm sorry about the bad experience but in most cases, people are honest and upstanding. It just doesn't get spoken of enough.

Chuck is awesome


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It was definitely more than than just acquittances. He knew my thoughts. And auctioned it off anyways.

Disagree. But hey, it seems everyone on this board is fine with it. Money trumps all.

Surprised nobody asked, but I was willing to pay 25 percent more than what the card was auctioned for.

That's a cool secret to keep and never convey to the owner of the card.

You could always have made an offer just to let him know what ballbark you were in, even if the card wasn't actively for sale. Que será, será.

If your max was more than the hammer price, did you bid and win it?

As for the mentality, it never changes. Almost 40 years ago, Randy Newman hit the golden nail on the head:

https://youtu.be/cS06eprlj2I?si=mDv8RauXKJrq9EIa

Of all of the people that I used to know
Most never adjusted to the great big world
I see them lurking in book stores
Working for the Public Radio
Carrying their babies around in a sack on their back
Moving careful and slow

It's money that matters
Hear what I say
It's money that matters
In the USA

All of these people are much brighter than I
In any fair system they would flourish and thrive
But they barely survive
They eke out a living and they barely survive
When I was a young boy, maybe thirteen
I took a hard look around me and asked what does it mean?
So I talked to my father, and he didn't know
And I talked to my friend and he didn't know
And I talked to my brother and he didn't know
And I talked to everybody that I knew

It's money that matters
Now you know that it's true
It's money that matters
Whatever you do

Then I talked to a man lived up on the county line
I was washing his car with a friend of mine
He was a little fat guy in a red jumpsuit
I said "You look kind of funny"
He said "I know that I do"
"But I got a great big house on the hill here
And a great big blonde wife inside it
And a great big pool in my backyard and another great big pool beside it
Sonny it's money that matters, hear what I say

It's money that matters in the USA
It's money that matters
Now you know that it's true
It's money that matters whatever you do

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...+billboard.jpg

Thanks for the reminder about etiquette Geoff!

I had to email a fellow board member who sent me scans a while ago and I had yet to reply.

Tony

Again, I didn’t know he sent it to auction and only found out about it after the auction had ended.

If you disagree with anything in that post, YOU are the problem in the relationship. Everything I said was about being a decent human being and longsuffering and compassionate with people you care about. Those are not things to disagree with.

It has nothing to do with money.....except for YOU apparently. If it was about the relationship, you would be reacting differently. It's all about material goods for you. That much is clear.