I assumed this was a major obstacle to a West Coast show for East Coast dealers. When I sold a couple of vintage motorcycles this year at the Mecum auction in Las Vegas (I'm on the West Coast) I found a guy in Los Angeles who had a trailer,insurance, and a good reputation. He picked up a dozen bikes up and down California and hauled them all to Vegas and checked them in to Mecum. Smooth process and cost me $600.

Maybe the same arrangement could be made with an enterprising individual hauling several dealers stock out from the East to Vegas.

Thanks Brian & Brian for the kind words. What I would personally like to see happen even more than a Winter NSCC is a Pre-War National. Dealers would be prohibited for selling/displaying anything earlier than 1945. No autograph signers (no living pre-War players). Obviously, this event would be much, much, much smaller than the NSCC and not require a huge, costly convention center. I don't care where it is held, I'll be there! But, I realize the chances of this happening are super slim and none!

The NSCC was held at least twice at Anaheim, quite successfully I believe. Was there a void of dealers from the East Coast for these shows?

62k square feet is smaller than the typical chain grocery store. The Indianapolis Convention Center is much larger than that

The ballrooms are 62k sf but the main exhibit hall is 566k sf of contiguous space

https://www.visitindy.com/meetings/m...ention-center/

That said, I live here and would love for it to be here. But flights to Chicago are a lot easier

62k square feet is smaller than the typical chain grocery store. The Indianapolis Convention Center is much larger than that

The ballrooms are 62k sf but the main exhibit hall is 566k sf of contiguous space

https://www.visitindy.com/meetings/m...ention-center/

That said, I live here and would love for it to be here. But flights to Chicago are a lot easier

I assume you meant (no later than 1945).

And yes, the chance is ZERO!

East dealers may say it is an obstacle, but trust me, most would climb Mt. Everest to make a sale.

Those that want to sell would make it work.

Randy, thanks for catching and correcting my brain freeze.

Everyone talking about west coast this, west coast that…yet nothing has happened out there in terms of a major card show since the 90’s…until last year with Burbank.

The National was there in 2000 and 2006. I think we can call those major shows.

So I was off by a few years.

Needless to say, we are approaching 20 years and it’s not even on the table for another National. I mean we could list all the major card shows and there is exactly ONE, that started a year ago, on the west coast.

You’re telling me that the demand is so high that no one has created a show of significance out there until after the covid boom?


It isnt just because of the east coast dealers.

The NFL did not have a franchise in Los Angeles, the second largest city in the US, for 20 years, and then they almost instantly had two. Sometimes things don't work out as you logically think they would. In the case of the National, it seems like their previous organizing committee determined that the west coast was, for their purposes, not a viable option, even though all the previous conventions in Anaheim were deemed to have been very successful.

I could foresee that the new organizers of the National would, in the relative near future, look into the feasibility of a west coast show, especially if the Burbank Show (in Anaheim) continues to draw strong interest.

Brian

What was the selection process they used 20+ years ago when it actually travelled around? It doesn't seem like that would include a dealer vote. (Or at least not a vote that included the location where the vote was being taken.)

Actually Tri-Star did, until the past few years, a yearly show in San Francisco which probably qualified as a big show. They deemed it was not worth their time and effort to continue with said show.

Adam and some of his friends put on smaller shows in the LA are and you can read this posts about some of the hurdles they had in putting on small shows. Now multiply that with a 10x of tables and you see where some of the problems came from

Ah, the Cow Palace. Took the arduous journey into that one and IIRC, there wasn't nearly enough vintage to sate the appetite. It seemed at its heart to basically be a huge autograph show, right?

Cleveland is 2.2M sq.ft which is almost 3x the size of Donald E. Stevens. The largest continuous space is 530k sq.ft vs 250k sq.ft. in Rosemont. Check both websites. Here I’ll even include link’s because I already know you won’t take the initiative to look for facts before calling someone out as “inaccurate”.

https://rosemont.com/desconvention/facility/

https://www.ixcenter.com/plan/floorplans-and-features/

I’ve never found a nice hotel for under $200 a night in Rosemont. $109 seems like an absolute bargain. Most hotels nearby even charge extra for parking. Some charge extra for a continental breakfast.

If you are driving or have a ride, I have to imagine the hotels that are a bit farther away (but not by much) can't be in that price range. My frame of reference is admittedly very dated, but the last Chicago National I attended was in the 2010s. I stayed in Schiller Park, an 8 minute drive away. Hotel was much above average and in the $70 range via Priceline. Even with the ridiculous price hikes for accommodation, can it possibly be more than $150 today?

A slightly below average room in the Cleveland area was still under $80 in 2018. I've never stayed incredibly close to the I-X. Used to be able to find a nicer place in the $50-60 range a handful of years prior with courtesy limo rides (Lincoln Towncar or SUV) to any place within a certain radius of the hotel. Unfortunately, the convention center wasn't within that radius, but it allowed for easy dinner and drinks. I'm guessing that it would still be possible to find something in the $100-110 range today?

If there was a top 5 list of subjects that will never die and will draw heated opinions one way or another ad infinitum . . . . this one is damm close to the top of the list.

I am not a seller. I am fine with the guys and gals schlepping their cases and boxes around to pick where they want to set up shop. While I like AC for proximity reasons and casinos, Chicago certain makes a lot of sense geographically. I know it's not as easy as just putting together a list of convention space size and throwing a dart at the board.

National in Chicago - always stayed in Schiller Park, usually here http://qualityinnohare.com/

National in Cleveland - usually stayed in Middleburg Heights, North Olmsted, Independence, Brunswick, Elyria etc,... was always an easy drive to the IX Center.

Yes not a ton of vintage and yes because of Tri-Star a lot of autographs. But it was a big show and we have to remember that Vintage (with the exception of the NSCC and a couple of other shows) is not always an major portion of the biggest shows

Rich

The National utilized the entire first floor of the Stephens Center this year which provided 600,000 sq.ft. according to the management company.

The IX Center, no matter the 2.2 million overall sq. ft. figure, has roughly 10% less space for booths than the Stephens Center did this year in one contiguous space. Hence, fewer booths.

If you book hotel rooms early through the National's booking company, you get reasonable rates if not staying across the street from the venue. For that convenience, you will pay appropriately.

Case in point, Hilton Garden Inn 1 mile from the Stephens Center was $139/night with free parking this year if booked through them.

Nice buffet breakfast was $16 but still put the daily rate at $155 + taxes with breakfast.

It was roughly double that rate for the room if you booked directly through Hilton a couple of weeks before the show and parking was an additional $15/day.

You have to plan early for the National if you want the best rates/deals.

So my first year of retirement is going to include a trip to Chicago......
Bob

Don't forget Cleveland has the Rock and Roll HOF, which is a great nostalgia trip and definitely worth a visit if you haven't already done it.

Which Cleveland hotel is: the closest to the IX/traditionally filled first?

They are all roughy 3 miles from the venue so just go to Conference Housing and select the one you want. I think November is the earliest you can actually book but you can request in advance but you have to number them 1-3 so you may not get your first choice.

Chicago hits the trifecta!

https://www.nsccshow.com/future-events

As an East Coaster it's a shame. I'm not driving to Chicago. Selfishly, I really think it'd overdue having a show in PA or MD. PA has never held it, and the amount of collectors here definitely rivals the most for any state in the US. I know we have the Philly show and Chantilly around here, but it would be nice to have the National one year over here in the heavily populated east coast. I also think holding it in Washington DC would be absolutely amazing.

ComicCon is in San Diego every year and they seem to be doing fine. I say leave it in Chicago permanently.

Atlanta would be great geographically for me, but getting from the airport to any facility that could handle it would be a disaster. for dealers and visitors I've never known a convention that does really well in Atlanta.

I think Indianapolis should get a shot. The main reason it's host to frequent Final Fours and major events is the proximity of hotels to the stadiums/convention center. It's a helluva lot cheaper, more convenient, and overall better than Rosemont/Chicago (which I live next to). Also has the #1-rated airport in the country. I suppose the lack of an MLB team hurts its chances.

If they keep the National in Chicago every year, they need to move it to the McCormick Place (and figure out the union stuff if that's an issue).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCormick_Place

Chicago
 

Good for me 30 minutes from my house!!!

Indianapolis would be a great host city. Lots of dining close to the convention center, and well, it is the "crossroads of America!" If not Indy, then I'm glad the National is in Chicago the next 3 years. I'd estimate that 1/3 to 1/2 of the people were without Wi-Fi in Cleveland, there were NO water fountains that I could find in the IX exhibition halls, and even if you left for the show early, you would hit bad traffic even on days that you thought attendance might be lighter (Wed. and Thursday). Parking lots were chaos---there was nobody directing traffic until you got to the main road (outside of the parking lot). On the plus side, the temperature was fairly pleasant despite the mass of humanity at the show. Yeah, I know the Chicago show had issues with the temp, but all in all, I liked the Chicago shows better because things seem much more organized and less stressful to attend, at least for me.

Chicago three years in a row is very disappointing to me. I was robbed at the last convention I attended in Chicago, in front of my downtown hotel. I've been to Chicago dozens of times for sporting events, work or visiting friends, but I try to do everything I can to avoid it now.

I've been to conventions in Louisville many times working a booth for my company and it would be an incredible location for the National. The most recent event hosted 877 vendors. Of all the convention centers I've been to it is the best by far.

Cleveland would be my first choice because of location to me. It had some struggles this year, but overall I would give it a thumbs up.

Interesting discussion. Especially, that the National could outgrow Chicago....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEYqVBl5iGY

The thing I can’t understand is why they only let dealers vote on the city. It seems to me that no matter where it is, the national would have no problem selling it out. I wish that both dealers and attendees got to vote, as regardless of your reason for going, we all spend a small fortune to go. Seems only fair to me.

After the size of the attendance we just saw in Cleveland and what seems to be an expected, continued increase in attendance, I wonder if the Stephens Center in Chicago will even be able to handle.

Agree. I linked this video on a different thread. The 2nd half of the discussion was really informative.

All of these venues (IX Center, Stephens Center, etc,...) would be fine if the crowd hadn't increased so much post Covid. It's outgrown all of these venues. That's why I suggested they move it to the McCormick Place in downtown Chicago.

Sorry, but this is lazy.

Hopefully there will be air conditioning.

I sure hope not. That venue is an absoulte cesspool and needs to be permanently taken out of consideration.

Total cesspool, agreed. But much better than Cleveland due to connected hotels and access to restaurants, etc. Which is sad lol.

I was actually considering amending my post to comment about how I'd gladly trade the convenience of the complex for some extra driving if only it meant a decent venue. The parking fiasco in Cleveland this year almost has me eating my words, but I just abhor the Stephens Center so much.

Cleveland as a city ranks near the bottom for me, yet the IX Center has historically been a great venue for a show layout and is thankfully far removed from the scuz. It's been an affordable area as well. Chicagoland is a mixture of wonderful and horrid and everything in between, but always lots to do for any taste, interest or occasion. Always an inordinate amount of driving involved between all the points of interest. Such a sprawling metropolis.

Same old same old. Can we get some new blood on the National Board?

Went to my one and only Nationals about 2013ish in Chicago. Glad I went to experience it but never felt the need to go back. My boy is 14 now and really wants to go to one so I guess Ill be up there again next year. I can only imagine how many more people will be there this time then last time and thought there were more then enough back then.