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-   -   why do sellers change asking price to sold after a sale? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=340004)

Peter_Spaeth 09-04-2023 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by midmo (Post 2370182)
I do it for this reason alone. I've never overthought it beyond that. If I sell something on craigslist I delete the ad. Does that frustrate people too? :)

I do think it's annoying that people bump BST threads for no reason other than "nice card, glws" but whatever. Not a big deal.
Or, wow just wow. :)
Or, wish I had the money.

Republicaninmass 09-04-2023 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370009)
What's the usual rationale we hear, protecting privacy or something?

Buyer is going to try and flip it

hockeyhockey 09-04-2023 08:10 PM
thanks for all the responses, interesting to hear different viewpoints.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 2370086)
BTW, why would you have that much interest in the sale price of a card you had no interest buying in the first place?
i'm interested in most cards since my collection spans over 100 years. i also miss a ton of sales/auctions/etc since i'm generally busy with work/family/athletics/etc. so it's data that would interest me. but whatever people choose to do with their listings, they do. was just curious why people did that SOLD thing.

icollectDCsports 09-04-2023 08:41 PM
Because there is no rule against it here, sellers can do what they want and it doesn’t phase me. However, I’d be most interested in having the price info remain for non-card memorabilia. It’s cool to get an idea of the value of items that don’t come up for sale as regularly as cards.

notfast 09-04-2023 08:56 PM
People really do like to complain about stuff that doesn’t matter.

whiteymet 09-05-2023 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 2370186)
Buyer is going to try and flip it
Exactly. I have had buyers message me to ask me to delete the sale price from my listing. Assume they are going to resell it here or elsewhere and don't want others to see what they bought it for.

DeanH3 09-05-2023 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2370062)
A related question: why do sellers bump their threads only to comment "SOLD" when you can simply edit the original post? :confused:
Ooops. Wish I had read this thread first. I just did this without really thinking it through. LOL. Live and learn. ;)

Leon 09-06-2023 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar_Stanage (Post 2370103)
I will chime in here as this is something I do.. here is my rationale:

At first, I had no idea how to sell a card, so I just did it because everyone else does.

now I continue for the following reasons.
1) it makes it clear the card is sold. I have left prices up (and note sold in the message) and continue to get messages on cards.

2) It protects the buyer from others knowing who bought it. If someone sends a "PM sent" message and the card is sold shortly thereafter, it can be known who bought the card and at what price.

3) Sometimes I may take a lower price and do not want that to be the base case assumption for other cards in the listing

There are definitely ways to accomplish all of these and also leave the sale price, but I just find this easier and preferable for me. I am not sure why this would annoy anyone.

I am annoyed by the unwritten rule that no one can comment on on a seller's cards/prices. IMO there is a nefarious/dishonest intent behind this, but I abide by it.
No nefarious intent behind the rule against commenting in the BST areas. It's common courtesy. Comments can totally screw up a sale. However, benign or positive comments are welcomed. It's a "Net54" thing, I guess.

And btw, it is a written rule and has been one for at least 10 yrs, if not more. No one reads the rules under the RULES icon though.... smh

Cut and pasted from our rules section (always available)


Posts offering to buy, sell, or trade items should be made in the appropriate Buy/Sell/Trade index. This includes posts for items appearing in on-line auctions such as eBay, Grand Slam Bids and auction houses etc... Buy/Sell/Trade threads in the wrong categories, or forums, will be moved or deleted. There should be no interference by 3rd parties within the Buy/Sell/Trade areas. Third parties are those not involved in a transaction. This includes, but is not limited to, posting current or historical cost information, commenting negatively on the offer or item, or anything that interferes with the listing in a negative way. Only persons involved in the transaction should post in the thread, however benign or favorable comments are generally permitted by third parties. If you don't know the difference between them, then please don't post. One exception is to expose fraudulent activity. It may always be posted in any thread, anywhere on the board, but you better have your ducks in a row and your name by your post when you report these misdeeds. “Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware” to all members. Each member uses the board at their own risk. Net54baseball does not monitor, and is not responsible for, transactions. Our sole recourse, in a punitive manner is suspension or banishment from the board. The Uniform Commercial Code of Law of the United States applies. We will work with authority’s when/if the need arises. Please request references from your trading partners when they are not well known or you don’t know them. Whenever someone resists giving a reference, upon request, please contact the moderator as that is, many times, a red flag.

Once any transaction is completed in the Buy/Sell/Trade areas, or over with, that transaction shouldn’t be deleted. Specific pricing, or confidential information may be removed but the other information should stay. Items should be consolidated in the BST area, into one thread, when appropriate. In other words don’t list more than a few similar items in single threads, in the same BST area, at once. IF you do this, they will most likely be deleted and asked to be posted again in a consolidated fashion. You should not bump a BST thread to the top very often (every 3-4 days at most) as it is discourteous to other posters.



.
.

JustinD 09-06-2023 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 2370102)
I just assume that it's people not wanting the IRS to see what transactions they should now be taxed on.
I always just assumed that was an occasional part of the reason also. Even if it does seem a tad paranoid to think that way, but a program to scrub the internet for random names attached transactional data would not be a hard flagging program to create if wanted.

In the couple times I have listed items, I always just edited to strikethrough text unless someone was to specifically ask me to remove- Like so: $2000 SOLD. Seems a logical use as it's an option right there in the message functions.

icollectDCsports 09-06-2023 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinD (Post 2370611)
I always just assumed that was an occasional part of the reason also. Even if it does seem a tad paranoid to think that way, but a program to scrub the internet for random names attached transactional data would not be a hard flagging program to create if wanted.

In the couple times I have listed items, I always just edited to strikethrough text unless someone was to specifically ask me to remove- Like so: $2000 SOLD. Seems a logical use as it's an option right there in the message functions.
Seems like a good way way to go.

kcohen 09-06-2023 12:10 PM
Sellers obviously have the right to do what they want. That said, I personally find the practice classless.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcohen (Post 2370687)
Sellers obviously have the right to do what they want. That said, I personally find the practice classless.
As stated I feel the same way, and even more so now that I see the primary motivation is to deprive members of information to facilitate buyers in flipping for higher prices. Ebay and AH prices are transparent, what's so special about here that we need this cloak and dagger secrecy?

Snapolit1 09-06-2023 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370695)
As stated I feel the same way, and even more so now that I see the primary motivation is to deprive members of information to facilitate buyers in flipping for higher prices. Ebay and AH prices are transparent, what's so special about here that we need this cloak and dagger secrecy?
Does ebay disclose what the purchase price was if an accepted offer below the listing price. I thought they no longer did.

packs 09-06-2023 01:39 PM
I don't want someone asking me if the card is still for sale. You would think that if somebody read the first post, they'll skim to the last post, but they don't. I was getting people messaging me for cards that were long sold and referencing the sale price in the first post, but nothing about how I'd posted SOLD as the final post.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 2370710)
Does ebay disclose what the purchase price was if an accepted offer below the listing price. I thought they no longer did.
There are sites where you can see the best offer price.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by packs (Post 2370711)
I don't want someone asking me if the card is still for sale. You would think that if somebody read the first post, they'll skim to the last post, but they don't. I was getting people messaging me for cards that were long sold and referencing the sale price in the first post, but nothing about how I'd posted SOLD as the final post.
Sounds like a horrible inconvenience. :cool:

packs 09-06-2023 01:43 PM
The question was asked.

3-2-count 09-06-2023 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notfast (Post 2370203)
People really do like to complain about stuff that doesn’t matter.
This ^^^^^^^ We sure are a sensative bunch here :rolleyes:

GasHouseGang 09-06-2023 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2370123)
I don't think the IRS has the resources to be looking for online sales and to try to connect them to someone without a social security number being available with the transaction, unless Leon is going to start sending in 1099s for any card that sells for over $600.
If they don't now, they might soon. They are supposed to be hiring 87,000 new IRS agents.

ricktmd 09-06-2023 02:08 PM
Erasing the original price is respectful to the purchaser who may want to resell it here or elsewhere. Leaving the initial asking price may be misleading "data" since many purchased items sell for less than asking. I always erase the asking price and feel it is the right thing to do.

Snapolit1 09-06-2023 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-2-count (Post 2370718)
This ^^^^^^^ We sure are a sensative bunch here :rolleyes:
As a country we have turned outrage into a form of high art.

nolemmings 09-06-2023 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370695)
As stated I feel the same way, and even more so now that I see the primary motivation is to deprive members of information to facilitate buyers in flipping for higher prices. Ebay and AH prices are transparent, what's so special about here that we need this cloak and dagger secrecy?
Agreed, and even if the ebay best offer sales price isn't easily transparent, the initial asking price is shown, which is all I would be looking for here. Seller doesn't have to indicate whether or what discount was made, just use a strikethrough or a "no longer available" marker next to the initial asking price (this would cover deals where the card ended up being traded rather than sold). Amend the title bar to make that clear card is gone if worried about pesky questioners scrolling inattentively--takes no more time than amending your initial post.

notfast 09-06-2023 03:09 PM
I am often speaking from my own high horse but I think saying this act is “classless” is a new lever of high horseness that boggles my mind.

notfast 09-06-2023 03:11 PM
Also as I just learned by my misspelling edit….you can actually see what the original post was.

So changing a price to sold doesn’t actually hide anything if you’re a member of this forum.

hockeyhockey 09-06-2023 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notfast (Post 2370743)
Also as I just learned by my misspelling edit….you can actually see what the original post was.

So changing a price to sold doesn’t actually hide anything if you’re a member of this forum.
you can see what other people's original post was before editing? i assumed that only you yourself can see that.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyhockey (Post 2370804)
you can see what other people's original post was before editing? i assumed that only you yourself can see that.
No, you can't. You are right and nofast is wrong. That's the whole point of being able to edit. The only way you could see what was there before is if someone quoted the original.

JollyElm 09-06-2023 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370806)
No, you can't. This is wrong. That's the whole point of being able to edit. The only way you could see is if someone quoted the original.
Hey, point of order. You quoted the wrong guy. NotFast is the one making the erroneous claim, HockeyHockey was just reacting and asking about said claim. :)


ETA: smiley face.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm (Post 2370814)
Hey, point of order. You quoted the wrong guy. NotFast is the one making the erroneous claim, HockeyHockey was reacting and asking about said claim.
I thought that was clear but I will clarify.

notfast 09-06-2023 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370806)
No, you can't. You are right and nofast is wrong. That's the whole point of being able to edit. The only way you could see what was there before is if someone quoted the original.
Oh may bad. I guess it is specific to your own edit. I know on Facebook you can see whatever anyone changes.

Snapolit1 09-06-2023 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notfast (Post 2370741)
I am often speaking from my own high horse but I think saying this act is “classless” is a new lever of high horseness that boggles my mind.
Go to your local car dealer and tell him you want all the details of transactions with your neighbors. Would be a humorous discussion.

raulus 09-06-2023 07:48 PM
I’ve never bought or sold over the BST here, so I really don’t have a dog in this fight. And for that matter, the stuff that I buy usually doesn’t transact around here anyway, so the sales price data isn’t meaningful to me either.

But the contrarian part of me now desperately wants to sell something and then brazenly delete the price just because of the painfully odious response it seems to provoke.

Snapolit1 09-06-2023 07:51 PM
"But the contrarian part of me now desperately wants to sell something and then brazenly delete the price just because of the painfully odious response it seems to provoke in people who weren't interested in actually buying the card"

G1911 09-06-2023 08:27 PM
"But the contrarian part of me now desperately wants to sell something and then brazenly delete the price just because of the painfully odious response it seems to provoke in people who weren't interested in actually buying the card and 99% of the time has readily available public pricing information to value the card.”

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370831)
"But the contrarian part of me now desperately wants to sell something and then brazenly delete the price just because of the painfully odious response it seems to provoke in people who weren't interested in actually buying the card and 99% of the time has readily available public pricing information to value the card.”
Which way does that cut? If that's the case, why are buyers requesting the price be deleted since it won't do them any good?

G1911 09-06-2023 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370833)
Which way does that cut? If that's the case, why are buyers requesting the price be deleted since it won't do them any good?
I’ve never had anyone request it. My reasons were different. Whether a T206 common sold for $75, $80 or $85 I really can’t see why anyone not in the deal cares, and I really don’t see why some people are clearly upset about it and using rather extreme verbiage.

Lorewalker 09-06-2023 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370841)
I’ve never had anyone request it. My reasons were different. Whether a T206 common sold for $75, $80 or $85 I really can’t see why anyone not in the deal cares, and I really don’t see why some people are clearly upset about it and using rather extreme verbiage.
It was only one person who used rather extreme verbiage and that was me. Apologies for offending you. :( Just because I have not bought a T206 Wagner does not mean I would not like to see price point data. A deal today that I had nothing to do with might be a deal I end up doing in the future so the reference would be cool to have.

If we take things a step further should auction houses not keep sales data for us to access from their websites and stop feeding data to VCP?

G1911 09-06-2023 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2370844)
It was only one person who used rather extreme verbiage and that was me. Apologies for offending you. :( Just because I have not bought a T206 Wagner does not mean I would not like to see price point data. A deal today that I had nothing to do with might be a deal I end up doing in the future so the reference would be cool to have.

If we take things a step further should auction houses not keep sales data for us to access from their websites and stop feeding data to VCP?
I’m not offended, I just don’t understand the value of this data and why people care so deeply rather than have a casual opinion. It’s a tiny amount of cards, which are mostly members ‘junk’, stuff people are just trying to move easily. It’s rare something sells here for which the pricing information would be legitimately useful and would help establish what a card is ‘worth’.

An auction house can do whatever they want with their sales data; it’s their data. They show it because it is in their fiscal interest to do so.

Lorewalker 09-06-2023 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370847)
I’m not offended, I just don’t understand the value of this data and why people care so deeply rather than have a casual opinion. It’s a tiny amount of cards, which are mostly members ‘junk’, stuff people are just trying to move easily. It’s rare something sells here for which the pricing information would be legitimately useful and would help establish what a card is ‘worth’.

An auction house can do whatever they want with their sales data; it’s their data. They show it because it is in their fiscal interest to do so.
Anyone can do almost anything they want. That was not the point. I think we all benefit as buyers and sellers from having as much sales data as possible. Being able to see asking prices at a minimum here is something which I feel is helpful and if a seller was going to put it up once then simply leave it.

And I disagree that BST is full of junk. Pretty harsh generalization.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 09:32 PM
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370847)
I’m not offended, I just don’t understand the value of this data and why people care so deeply rather than have a casual opinion. It’s a tiny amount of cards, which are mostly members ‘junk’, stuff people are just trying to move easily. It’s rare something sells here for which the pricing information would be legitimately useful and would help establish what a card is ‘worth’.

An auction house can do whatever they want with their sales data; it’s their data. They show it because it is in their fiscal interest to do so.
I have bought these here and many more of this caliber. I doubt they would be junk to most.

Lorewalker 09-06-2023 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370850)
I have bought these here and many more of this caliber. I doubt they would be junk to most.
You actually but that junk here? Sucker.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2370851)
You actually but that junk here? Sucker.
It was like grazing the junk bins at a show, I am almost ashamed to admit it.

G1911 09-06-2023 09:39 PM
Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

Lorewalker 09-06-2023 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370853)
It was like grazing the junk bins at a show, I am almost ashamed to admit it.
Well you showed a lot of guts to post those here and to admit to such behavior. We will forever be referring to you as a junk collector.

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370855)
Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.
I see graded a Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson and Young in the first category I opened on the first page without even scrolling down.

G1911 09-06-2023 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370859)
I see graded a Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson and Young in the first category I opened on the first page without even scrolling down.
Which of these cards are difficult to price?

Peter_Spaeth 09-06-2023 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370860)
Which of these cards are difficult to price?
There probably isn't a hell of a lot of data in a particular grade for a lot of prewar cards like these where sales are few and far between. These are not for the most part commodity cards. And who says that's the issue, you've decided it was the issue but it isn't. The issue is why deprive people of information to accommodate a buyer looking to suppress data in order to try to overprice.

Casey2296 09-06-2023 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2370844)
It was only one person who used rather extreme verbiage and that was me. Apologies for offending you. :( Just because I have not bought a T206 Wagner does not mean I would not like to see price point data. A deal today that I had nothing to do with might be a deal I end up doing in the future so the reference would be cool to have.

If we take things a step further should auction houses not keep sales data for us to access from their websites and stop feeding data to VCP?
But we're not an auction house here, we're like minded members who respect each other.
For example; a long time member posted his Rose Postcard of Moonlight Graham for sale, Ryan sent a PM and bought it.

Is the sales price anybody's business but the two of them? No.

If you were collecting Rose Postcards and wanted to get an idea of what that card sold for I'm sure you could pm Ryan and ask him, he's a nice guy and a good member so he would probably tell you.

If you want Net54 opinions to build a database of the card you want just make a post, "how much does a XXX go for?" you will get more opinions and data than you'd ever want.

Lorewalker 09-06-2023 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2370855)
Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.
And this is where we differ, clearly. I think the market suffers if sales data is not provided and feel the availability of the data has allowed the industry to mature. Not sure how you have as efficient a market absent sales data or some type of actual price point.

Again...I see quite a lot of what I would call significant cards offered for sale on BST so reducing this to a $75 T206 common is really not relevant.

So should real estate transactions not be disclosed? What about stock trades? Different markets but I think providing information on a sale in a commerce related industry makes everyone a more informed participant.

Lorewalker 09-06-2023 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey2296 (Post 2370864)
But we're not an auction house here, we're like minded members who respect each other.
For example; a long time member posted his Rose Postcard of Moonlight Graham for sale, Ryan sent a PM and bought it.

Is the sales price anybody's business but the two of them? No.

If you were collecting Rose Postcards and wanted to get an idea of what that card sold for I'm sure you could pm Ryan and ask him, he's a nice guy and a good member so he would probably tell you.

If you want Net54 opinions to build a database of the card you want just make a post, "how much does a XXX go for?" you will get more opinions and data than you'd ever want.
I can appreciate that but I also like to rely on my own efforts and not have to trouble other people. In your example, if the seller of the postcard did not put an asking price in the post I would agree it is nobody's business. If he did then what harm is it in leaving it there?

And I pose the same question to you as I did to Greg: Should auction sites now refuse to share sales data with us and cease submitting data to VCP? Imagine going to eBay and searching sales and starting price was gone as was sold price? I think most in the hobby would be up in arms.

G1911 09-06-2023 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2370862)
There probably isn't a hell of a lot of data in a particular grade for a lot of prewar cards like these where sales are few and far between. These are not for the most part commodity cards. And who says that's the issue, you've decided it was the issue but it isn't.
Okay. Do you want to argue that most cards on the BST are difficult to price or big cards?

Yes, that’s the issue? There’s not been any answer. If people are upset that prices are sometimes removed after a sale, the question of how that information is actually useful seems obviously relevant. If it’s a problem, it should be extremely easy to answer how, no? There’s a handful cards certainly that I can see the use, but the vast majority of cards here have actual pricing information in actual organized databases. When looking to value an N162 Anson, do you search through the BST, or do you use an easily available database that is actually organized and designed to fulfill this purpose?


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