The card has come back with a note pointing to an alleged "bend" that my apparently vision-impaired friend says he does not see. A bend is not the same thing as a light wrinkle, IMO, so perhaps Brent and team need eye exams too. In any event, so it goes.

This issue is made of thin newsprint. A bend on this issue is a wrinkle/crease...it is semantics. If PWCC saw something and someone else (PSA presumably) placed a note on it then your friend might want to quit his day job. Dunno about you but I like the advice I seek served accurate.

On a thin newsprint issue, if there was a bend or wrinkle, wouldn't it likely break the paper and be on both sides? PWCC's description mentions only the back, and the note from PSA was placed on the back as I should have mentioned if I did not.

Sure seems like it would be on both sides, unless it was the world’s lightest bend.

I guess there can be very very subtle wrinkles or paper defects. I remember many years ago I bought a Goudey card in a 4 that looked like a 7 from a guy who is now the head of a major auction house, and he said he had looked it over multiple times and had no idea why PSA had hammered it. I guess for me the question is, is whatever it is so subtle that another grading company might miss it, or wouldn't take off 4 grades for it with the card obviously so visually appealing, but that's probably a fool's game.

Once a card is in the holder it is much more difficult to find flaws, imo. If someone is not great at assessing raw cards they will be horrible assessing them once they are entombed.

I have never been lucky enough to have a TPG not take off a 4 grade deficit for a flaw on an otherwise immaculate card. With that said, no TPG is immune from seeing things that might not actually be there. Sometimes it is nothing more than interpretation of some anomaly.

PSA is just begging us to send our cards over to SGC now. Here's another recently graded facepalm "3" I got back from the noobs at PSA. Note there are no creases or wrinkles or hidden flaws or issues on the back, etc. This is not what a 3 looks like. This is what a 4.5 looks like. We're actually at a point now where putting a card in a PSA slab often lowers the value of the card as opposed to increasing it. This card would sell for a lot more raw than it would in this trainwreck of a holder. And they couldn't even bother to give it a 3.5 (let alone the 4.5 it deserves) despite the fact that it has great color and perfect centering in a set where less than 5% of cards are actually centered? LOL. :rolleyes:

There was once a time, not too long ago, where this card would have actually gotten a 5 or 5.5 from PSA. I'll send this off to SGC. Anyone want to place a wager on whether or not it comes back in a 4.5 holder then?

I still have my old school grading biases, to me that card looks like a 5 easily.

4.5 to me even on today's tighter standards, assuming no wrinkles or creases. I see some surface scratches but maybe that is the holder. Great looking card and selling it raw would go for much more than it would in the 3.

Travis, what is the red "spot" on Jackie's shoulder?

No creases or wrinkles. A little bit of light surface wear and soft corners. That's it. No corner creases or bends. Top right corner is probably the biggest offender on this card. The red dot is just a print dot. No blood or anything like that lol.

Well you got the beat down and I am sorry. Until this example, and I trust your assessment entirely, I thought hammering the submitter only happened on vintage that is NM and above.

I am not sure what the solution is but for the last year I have been telling everyone not to submit unless you need to do so to sell and be prepared to be disappointed. I have a stack of cards in all conditions and all values that are part of my collection and no way I am wasting the money to send them in. Rather keep the 10K in grading fees in cash. 10K assumes they get it close to right on all of the cards the first time, which is 100% impossible.

I remember way back in the day people on the CU Forum used to joke about getting hammered by the fictional "Grader of Death." I think the Grader of Death would be welcome in today's beat-down world.

I would like to see the back of the Robinson. Just to give it a decent assessment. From what I see of the front though, it looks really nice and undergraded.

I have a two-card order with SGC that has been in post-grading processing since 10/20. I contacted them yesterday regarding status, and was told that someone would be in touch to "discuss" my order-- no word today.

Has anyone been through anything similar with SGC before? Wondering if my cards are lost/damaged, or if they're looking to upcharge, or...

I had a similar situation with my latest sub, where one of my cards came back with a large crease on the back that was not there when subbed. The card was shipped securely, so confident it did t happen during the shipping process.
I emailed and got a response back immediately from Brent to send pics and order #, which I promptly sent and now a week later no response.
My original email was just asking to address with the grader so this doesn't happen in the future no refund etc., just accountability, so just wanted a follow up. Accidents happen and since the crease can't be taken back, just a friendly reminder to the grader to be more careful is all I wanted.

Rumor has it they're grading the orders so fast now that the postal truck delivering the orders to SGC is just waiting there to take them back to the post office after they are graded.

I guess I know where I am sending my 2023s! Not sure what else this means.

I heard they hired Chuck Norris, who grades and slabs the cards before they even get there.

Maybe grading so fast because the volume is down and their labor force has increased. IDK

Some up to date October numbers.

Up 17%!!!

What impresses me is that the newcomer CSG has more submissions then SGC & Beckett combined

That relationship with Brent is paying off.

I didn't realize Beckett was that small. Have they lost a ton of business over the last few years? I know they used to be the king of modern cards.

In case anyone is curious, turns out that SGC accidentally creased an N172 Adonis Terry I had sent them, taking it from an SGC 3 to an SGC 1.

They offered to pay me what I thought was a a fair differential between a 3 and a 1, as well as adding some free grading vouchers.

They clearly felt awful, but things happen when you're dealing with old cardboard, so it's all good.

That sucks, glad it worked out in the end.:)

Down 18 percent just this one month. I think one can probably fairly extrapolate a big loss over the last few years.

In a different post where someone had shown this same breakdown/info for an earlier month, I had asked what the two numbers that added up to CSG's total number of graded cards was, and thought I remember someone responded the first was for graded sports cards, and the second for other non-sports cards, like gaming cards. If true, it looks like CSG does a whole lot less sports card grading than they do non-sports cards. Now I don't know what the breakdown might be for SGC and Beckett between sports and non-sports, so is it possible that CSG actually still lags behind SGC (and possibly Beckett) after all when it comes to grading sports cards? And is PWCC really into and involved with non-sports cards? If not, and SGC (and possibly Beckett) really is outdoing CSG when it comes to grading sports cards, your statement may not be that accurate.

Also, is it known for certain that PWCC now only sends cards to be graded to CSG, and to no other TPGs at all? I don't go on their site and have no clue as to what they typically sell anymore, and if graded, which TPG(s) typically has/have graded cards being sold by them.

Does PWCC offer grading services for raw cards?
PWCC partners with Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) to provide PWCC clients with prioritized professional grading through CCG’s Certified Guarantee Company (CGC) and Certified Sports Guarantee (CSG) services. CCG is the parent company of CGC and CSG. PWCC has negotiated faster turnaround times and lower fees for PWCC clients through CCG.

What are the advantages of using CCG through PWCC?
Flat fee. Only $20 per card regardless of value, genre, or category. The program currently includes only 2.5 x 3.5 sized cards. The $20 fee includes shipping costs from PWCC to CCG and back to PWCC for sale in the Weekly Sunday Auction.
No upfront costs. After your CCG encapsulated card sells in PWCC’s Weekly Sunday Auction, we will deduct the $20 fixed grading cost from your proceeds.
10-day guarantee. CCG will grade cards within 10 days of receiving them.
Unlimited submissions. Submit unlimited cards. PWCC strongly recommends you submit cards with at least a $100 value to ensure you maximize your profits. For example, if you submit a card that sells for $20, you will net $0 since you will pay $20 for the CCG grading process. If you submit cards that sell for less than $20, you will wind up with a negative balance. If we determine that the cards you submit will not cover the cost of grading when they sell, we reserve the right to return your submission to you without sending it for grading. Using the $100 per card estimate as a guide will help ensure a positive and worthwhile selling experience.
No paperwork. Forget the forms. PWCC will handle the entire process with CCG. You will only need to follow the submission process on PWCC’s website.
CCG to PWCC Weekly. CCG will send your cards directly to PWCC. PWCC will queue them for an upcoming Weekly Sunday Auction when they arrive. It is that simple.

I think PWCC also has or had a deal with Beckett.

I don't hear much about them since they got shown the door off Ebay. Are they still a force to be reckoned with?

They still sell a lot on their own platform.

While there’s no statistics that I know of to evaluate whether they have waxed or waned in their volume and activity, my sense is that they have lost a bit of action since moving off of eBay. At the same time, they still seem to continue to do pretty brisk business on high end pieces through their monthly premier auction. And if you’re willing to put forth the effort to dig around every week, there are plenty of items on their weekly auction as well.

Not sure if that makes them a force to be reckoned with. But they’re definitely not nothing.

You must come up with these sale prices in your dreams. There were no such comparisons on ebay. Try using your brain before posting dumb crap.

Use yours. These are obviously number of listings, not sale prices.

Just a wild guess but I would think that PWCC is still using SGC and PSA because they are a retail entity and their business model is to get the most they can for their listings. I am sure in both instances it is someone else submitting the material to SGC and PSA for them.

Whatever deal they have with CSG and Beckett is simply a service they are offering consignors. I know that SGC cards typically sell for a discount to a PSA counterpart so I would assume that CSG sells for a discount to SGC but I do not follow sales of CSG product so I could be entirely wrong.

Hey Chase,

Was sort of thinking the same thing, and why I posed the question. Never been on PWCC's site, so don't really know what they're selling the most of these days, and who's grading the bulk of it. Is it a proven fact though that PWCC does not submit cards to SGC and PSA directly, only through a third party? And if so, is that PWCC's choice, or is it because PSA and SGC refuse to take business from PWCC directly? I've never heard of any rumors that some TPGs would no longer accept PWCC submissions.

This is funny! What a great self-own.

It reminds me of the old Gildna Radner skits.What is all the fuss about violins on TV?

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Hi Bob,

I had heard or read that PSA and SGC cut ties with PWCC but if someone told me I was mistaken I would not be shocked. Seems reasonable enough to me that they would want to distance themselves from PWCC but I really have not paid that close attention to the matter since I never shop with them. Like you, I have never been on their website.


Chase

Not surprised if they won't work a deal with PWCC directly, but as you said, can always go through 3rd parties.

CSG numbers may include ebay authentic guarantee

Greg the graph stated "Items Graded" so it can be legit
In October they offered 20% off their fees & their fees were the lowest in the industry to begin with.

I've never submitted w/ CSG but I like their slab & hope they continue to prosper, which will keep PSA/SGC/BGS on their toes

I gave CSG 25 prewar cards to grade yesterday. I hope they become at least #2 in the hobby...
And they are a ton less expensive than the others. No value limitations. So my orange border Cobby...was 15 bucks to be graded. It's definitely only AUT so why would I want to pay more!

edited to add, I think they have changed their pricing structure now, but still a good deal.
.

That will be the day when I see an under graded PSA card!

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The turnaround time seems to have slowed.....

SGC turbaround
 

I submitted 5 cards to SGC as part of a larger group on either Jan 2 or 3. Grades are online and cards due in hand later this week. If that is slower, I’ll gladly still take it:) Trent King

Bob, must be dependent a little on the holidays and weather (transport mainly as they are in FL). I just received an order back that was processed amazingly fast.

Does anyone have experience in sending in vintage, autographed type 1 photos to PSA for classification and grading? If you want a nightmare experience, try that. I just received back the attached photo. I had reached the conclusion that it had been lost and was contemplating the next steps in filing a lost item claim. Of course, the photo came back with a crease through the middle that wasn't there when I sent it in - see the before and after photos - but I got it back. It was received by PSA NJ in early July 2022. This has turned into a "just glad to get back" situation.

I think most who use them believe the quick turnaround times from SGC is a good thing, and, of course, it is. But my concern is whether my cards have spent enough time in the grading room being looked at by someone who knows what they are doing. I fear that the SGC business model might put more emphasis on quick returns than doing the card justice by the grader and they are harshly grading vintage to be on the safe side. Certainly, a T3 Matty deserves far more grading attention than a Mike Trout base RC.

Travis, your nice '54 Jackie was raped by PSA. How any grader could give that a 3 is beyond a travesty.

I ended up sending it to SGC after rolling my eyes at PSA. They gave it the 4 it deserved at least.

That card is gorgeous for a 4!