So what if it's dying, by whatever way of thinking that you care to listen to.

We're in a country of 300+ million, as long as 18 of them are willing to get together for a game, I'll be happy to listen (because I live in LA and my team hates it's fans so watching is nearly impossible).

Doug

I listened to or watched 155 Pirates games last year. I attended none. Three strikes and you're out. Yes, I'm aware the latest disruption in the owners/players relationship was a lockout. I am talking previously. There have been strikes by the players and the cheapskate, Bob Nutting, has made my distaste for a game at PNC Park even worse. Finally, the DH in the National League=done listening or watching. No effect on collecting before WWII.

Baseball needs a pitching clock and it is coming. The games will be a lot better to watch when faster. Hope that helps, it has really deteriorated the viewing experience for years.

I live in CA now, baseball at the youth level is way bigger than the east coast. Los of kids taking it seriously. Gives me hope!

But i will tell you what needs to die…the NY Times! What a biased joke of a paper masquerading as serious journalism. Stopped reading anything from them years ago.

To me, the NBA is absolutely unwatchable. Just a bunch of selfish players chucking up threes. I watch the NFL and love football, but often i watch it on DVR with the breaks fastforwarded. Takes an hour and a half to watch the 3 1/2 hr telecast.

They may change up rules and parts of the game here and there. Owners are greedy. I think some players make way too much money to play baseball. Overall, I freakin love baseball and get excited each year for opening day! Nothing will ever change that. Yankee/Red Sox game being canceled bummed me out big time ⚾️

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

+1

Proudly,

Ryan Hotchkiss

Worst thing about the NBA is the last 2 minutes of the game is 10 fouls and 20 foul shots and it seemingly takes 15 minutes.

Baseball was always a cut throat business. Read a book about Jacob Ruppert or Branch Rickey.

I am not pointing a finger at any board member, and people are of course entitled to their views and opinions, but a large part of what's wrong with everything right now is people aren't educated with a historical perspective. If you are a student of baseball (and I hardly consider myself one), you know that the game has been a cut throat in your face business since the 1890s. Leagues crushing leagues through illegal tactics, teams burying other teams and financially destroying them, players moving for more money, management screwing over players, players cheating, etc., etc. Even what the major leagues did in raiding the Negro Leagues for talent was financially despicable.

The one refrain that makes me throw up a little every time I hear it is "things are so different today. What I was growing up players would have been happy to play for free . . . . they just loved the game." Oh please. Yeah, most of them had zero power to force anything. And people like Gehrig and Ruth who had clout held out repeatedly for more money.

I guess as I approach my 60s I need to soon adopt the obligatory old guy "everything is so much worse today than it ever was" mentality. Not there yet. I'd make a joke about maybe I'm watching the wrong TV news network but I'll leave that for another day.

The best way to watch any basketball game is the next day. Read the writeup and the box scores. No waiting whatsoever at that point.

Any basketball I watch now is College and only the playoffs. It is just not entertaining to watch any NBA games anymore. At least for me it is not.

Regards,

Butch

I agree. A purpose of the article is to disentangle the sport's profitability from its popularity.

"Casual observers may assume that despite this lack of popularity, baseball is still somehow insanely valuable. This is an illusion. Major League Baseball generated around $11 billion in revenue in 2019, but this figure does not accurately reflect the demand for its product. The astronomical salaries that continue to be enjoyed by the sport’s stars (if that is the mot juste) are a result not of the game’s nonexistent popularity but of the economics of cable television providers, who bundle regional sports networks alongside dozens of other channels so that anyone with cable TV is buying baseball whether he likes it or not.


Because baseball makes much of its money from cable, rather than ticket sales and concessions, etc. it must continue to keep games extremely long, by milking lengthy advertisements. This perpetuates its lack of popularity as most people don't want to sit through a 3 hour plus game, especially in our current ADD/instant gratification society.

If current rates of "cord cutting" continue and cable packages become less of a financial windfall, baseball may need to adjust its business model to thrive.

However, it should be noted that as of 2020, MLB estimated that it still made "40% of revenue comes from tickets, concessions and other gate-related income" according to this Jeff Passan article. As one might suspect, much of that revenue disappeared with the pandemic. So a lot depends on if things bounce back this year at the parks.

cmon man!

I've observed in my age group (mid to late 20's) there isn't a whole lot of interest in baseball anymore. Out of about two dozen people in my office, me and another guy, who was from Atlanta, were the only ones who watched the World Series. I also don't buy the argument that the game is fine because Besos et al are pouring money into it. The history of the game is littered with businessmen who were successful in other endeavors but flopped when they tried to run a baseball team. Boxing used to be huge too, but I don't think I could name a more recent boxer than George Foreman, and only because of his grills. The Simpsons joked that baseball was as much fun as doing taxes, but at least when I got done with those I got a check!

Just to add my 2 cents, just look how Tiger Wood's unexpected re-emergence in the Masters after his terrible accident has drawn such public interest and rejuvenated interest in golf, which had been suffering declining tv ratings. I cannot envision a similar scenario in baseball.
Also, the decline of minor league ball is a tragedy for the game. Triple A teams especially were really the pipeline for good players develop until they were ready for the Big Show. Although he is a special case, think of Jackie Robinson and Montreal and Mantle with Joplin.

Where do you get your non-masquerading serious journalism these days?

For most people - it is not a single source but multiple sources with multiple opinions which help to form one's personal opinion

However - I do agree that the New York Times is a completely biased journalistic rag....

My apologies if this already came up in previous threads, but I can’t take a sport seriously when one player on the Mets (Max Scherzer) makes more in one year than the combined salaries of an ENTIRE team: Orioles, A’s, Guardians, Pirates).

Baseball is dead to me.

Hi Lonnie, yes, I do the same. I don't disagree with the general sentiment either, really.. I do find that they occasionally publish very good investigative journalism though, which I think is a good thing even if I don't agree with their editorial viewpoints.

I've found the Wall Street Journal and BBC to be straightforward. The other outlets, I really haven't missed since I cut the cable.

It's just my opinion Steve but I'm sure that I am not the only one who feels this way. From the early 70's until the middle of 1994 if there was a baseball game on T.V. and I was home I was watching it, since that time I've watched John Smoltz play more rounds of golf than I've watched baseball games.

Same thing with Boxing I used to be a huge boxing fan until PPV ruined the sport.

My wife and I used to go to both Nascar weekends in Dover Delaware but gradually they kept raising the hotel prices until a $125 hotel room was $500-$600 a night. I actually called the chamber of commerce and complained that they were chasing the real fans away. She told me that it was because there wasn't enough rooms to support the amount of people.
She didn't have an answer when I pointed out that when we first started going there were just as many people 150,000-200,000 and that it was before all the drivers and teams had there own motor homes and used to stay in the hotels and also before several new large hotels were built next to the track. When we went we used to meet up with several friends from our area who stayed at a campsite right across from the track, many had been staying there for over 20 years. The track bought the campsite and made everyone purchase at least two tickets for all the races Friday, Saturday and Sunday in order to reserve a spot.

I don't think it was more than 5 years after I had the conversation with the woman from the chamber of commerce that attendance at the Dover race had dropped to about 20,000-25,000 at most for the cup race on Sunday.

Thanks for the recommendations, Scott. I also have not had cable for many years, and other than some live sports, I don't miss it much.

It’s not dying in the sense that it’s going to disappear anytime soon, but I fail to see any reasonable data based argument that baseballs decreasing relevance and popularity is fictional. It is measurably less and less popular as time goes on while other sports increase in popularity. It hasn’t been America’s pastime for half a century now and the gap keeps increasing.

Most of the recent rules changes (and extended commercial breaks) I hate, but being forced to watch another $20 million pitcher creating a hole in the lineup and weakly wave at a fastball or muffing another bunt, or hurting himself on the base paths is not something I will ever miss in the slightest.

This is the stat line for pitchers in 2021: .103 BA, .135 on-base percentage, .141 slugging percentage and 48.0 strikeout percentage. Successful sacrifice percentage 7.1%.

If you somehow have an Ohtani and you want to voluntarily put him in the lineup, fine....but otherwise, I can't wrap my head around the idea that so many people embraced this absolutely self-defeating practice for so long.

Flame away! :p:p:p

Totally fair point, although I will miss watching the pitchers that could actually hit a little bit, like deGrom and Greinke.

How about pitchers who went 9 innings, let alone 6+??? I remember marveling at Nolan Ryan and Mike Scott (I am not an Astros fan), who would pitch 9 innings, strike out a ton of batters, and then come back and do it all over a few days later. Middle relievers and pitch counts are two things that have killed the sport for me.

+100

Exactamundo....and if the Fonz were on network TV today, hardly anyone would watch until it came to Netflix or somewhere else where it could be binge watched(and without commercials). They still might not watch unless there were nude scenes added with some of Fonzie's hook ups(which I would be perfectly fine with).

Absolutely, I agree. Let starters go deeper into games!

Remember 2020 WS game 6? Tampa pulled Blake Snell after 5 1/3 shutout innings and 73 pitches...of course the next guy in blew the game.

Facts.

I get your point, but I also remember Mark Fidrych being completely worthless by his age 22 season, after throwing nearly as many complete games in his Rookie season as Justin Verlander has had in his entire career.

I really don't care much about pitch counts, but pace of games has gotten ridiculous. They can try to figure out a way to quicken pitching changes or limit roster spots for pitchers so they have to try to pitch smarter and not harder, but the biggest issue will always be selling commercial space so television networks can justify paying as much as the do for the prestige of having a major sports league under contract...and it's faaaaaar worse during the playoffs.

I attend plenty of minor league games...and the pace of play in those leagues is, shall I say, still pretty brisk.

Sometimes I get annoyed I haven't even had the time to enjoy a 2nd beer before the 7th inning comes around and concessions start to close down. :D

Well teams still can insert their pitchers into the lineup if they think it's to their advantage...but even modern pitchers who are considered competent at the plate may have a season here and there where they exceed expectations (think Degrom, Syndegaard, Grienke), but if you look at their lifetime totals, even those guys are pretty abysmal, so unlikely you'll see very many pitcher at bats from anybody outside of another Ohtani level talent from this point on.

I enjoyed the strategy which tended to accompany having pitchers in the batting lineup.

The sentiment above was expressed with brevity, out of respect to those for whom anything more than highlights would be too long and involved.

He was even better his age 22 season before tearing his rotator cuff. Probably Rhee best pitcher in the majors, in fact. 6-2, 1.83 ERA. Then he gets hurt and it wasn't diagnosed properly until 1985. Had it been treated properly, he would have continued being successful.

I was more excited about opening day this year than in many years. And I don’t even really follow a team anymore—just players.

No, baseball is most surely not dying …

“They'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.”

Pete Ward, Tommy Davis and John Ellis passed in the last month. I suspect that those names evoke fond memories in many on this board. Baseball is not dying.

Baseball today sucks. I am a Boys of Summer guy.

Two separate comments regarding this. First, try living in Oklahoma City. I have to deal with the blackout rules for the Royals, Cardinals, Rangers, and Astros. As a Yankees/Guardians fans, that is a lot of games I can't watch. Particularly because, as Rich points out, those of us who have cut the cord and only stream can't get the local sports network. Second, the NBA also enforces local blackouts, but the difference is that you can get around it with a VPN. I tried last year with MLB TV and I wasn't able to use that way to get around local blackout rules.

In this day and age, when most revenue actually comes from broadcast rights, blackout rules are absolutely idiotic.

Anybody who wants to spend $500+ to bring their family out to a game, isn't going to stay in and watch it on TV instead.

It seems self-defeating and whittles away at your future fan base. :confused:

Baseball may not be dying, but it sure isn't the same as it used to be. Ive mostly attributed this to me getting older but my 20 year old boys find it boring so Im not so sure. When I was growing up in the hills of Appalachia in the 1970s, baseball was magical an escape from the day to day. Most here are talking about not being able to see the games. In the 1970s that was the allure. We saw two games a week, Saturday NBC game of the week and Monday night baseball, I spent all my time trying to get KDKA radio to come in in Southern WV to hear the Pirates games. Those are memories i cherish now. Baseball has lost its mystique, its romanticism because it's everywhere. Or maybe I've just gotten old.

Also, if you're a T-Mobile customer. The MLBTv package is free every year.

Views of average Net 54er:

Baseball today sucks.

Movies today suck.

Music today sucks.

TV today sucks.


Mmmm. Sensing a theme here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhTuYKR-ejo

Nah…TV is awesome today! Streaming is great.

Regarding rules changes and adjustments, folks might enjoy this interview with Theo Epstein. He ties all of the changes back to a singular goal of increasing game action and rhythm while reducing the rate of true outcomes.

https://theathletic.com/podcast/243-...w/?episode=201

For those without a subscription, there's a free trial, or you might have access already through services like Amazon Music (in the podcast section).

[QUOTE=Snapolit1;2213455]Views of average Net 54er:

Baseball today sucks.

Movies today suck.

Music today sucks.

TV today sucks.

Dale Carnegie sucks.


Mmmm. Sensing a theme here.

Movies today do kinda suck.

My 20 year old sons find everything I've ever done in my life boring. Their idea of watching a movie is having it on the big screen, while they post on Redditt about what they are watching, while the text their friends about completely unrelated things, while they occasionally glance down at their college homework. And somehow they seem to understand more about the movie than I do.

Over 10 billion minutes of MLB baseball watched last year on cell phones.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/...egular-season/

That's a lot of eyeballs for something no one cares about anymore.

Speaking for myself only, the season is too long when 40% of the teams make the playoffs. We’re starting to see load management in the MLB and the World Series should never be played around Halloween. Baseball is the ultimate league of the haves and have nots. A cap/floor should have been instituted although a balanced schedule for 2023 is an imperfect step forward.

I watch a lot of old B movies. Many movies also sucked in the old days.


Baseball games are too long.

Looking at the box scores from yesterday's games, it's clear they need to change the rules on who gets the win--and I mean right now, today. I couldn't believe how many teams used eight or more pitchers, and how few starters went five. I know it's a trend of long standing, but reading the paper (another endangered species, oh how I will miss the page with all the box scores from the day before!), the start of this season struck me as truly revolutionary for the amazing number of pitchers used in so many games by both teams. And that's with a requirement that they go at least three batters!

Not to disagree with your overall point, but I'd attribute some of the unusually low pitch counts for starters so far this year to the abbreviated spring training. Just a few examples I quickly pulled up from yesterday:

Max Scherzer 80 pitches
Charlie Morton 78 pitches
Walker Buehler 78 pitches

These guys will be almost certainly be going deeper into games as the season goes on.

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

1. Giving the old huevos a good tug and scratch.
2. Sticking a finger in a nostril or ear to see that all is well.
3. Digging around their backside for an invisible wedgie.
4. Repeat #3.
5. Kiss their bling and look hopefully skyward.

Then and only then, after scowling at the earth for an interminable time, might they be ready to step into the batters box.

Owners and umpires must do something to improve game time or fans who are already suffering from the boredom syndrome might drift away altogether in greater numbers.