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PSA has had my submission of about 50 really nice vintage post-war Hof'ers since May of 2020. The cards now appear to be in grading, but who knows? This will be my last submission to PSA.
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A few months ago I decided to complete this whole set in high grade. However, I didn't care if the cards had print lines on them or if they were off-centered. I had no idea how challenging it was going to be! A lot of raw examples that I purchased online from various sellers had light creases in them. A couple were under-sized as well. And finding the high numbers in good shape is a nightmare! They're expensive and many of them are hand-cut too. Do you have any high numbers? The Mikan is the big one, but there are a lot of other stars in the high number series as well. |
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I think from now on onsite grading is probably the only opportunity I'll take advantage of to get my cards graded. So, may there be more!
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I think I'll just keep ALL my cards as they are...raw.
You guys are a bunch of investment brokers and speculators, not card collectors in the hobby. Stop, stop pretending. |
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They didn't. Accepting money to let latecomers jump the line when not giving that opportunity to those already in line is unethical. |
They're not "jumping the line." It's no different than submitting at a higher level through the mail. The higher level submissions always came before bulks, etc. That's never been a secret, it's outright stated on the forms.
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Jumping the line implies something unfair. Everyone has the same opportunity to pay the same rates and get the same treatment. As far as I know nobody gets special line-jumping privileges because they are a snappy dresser. So if it's a known practice, and applied equitably, to me it's not line jumping. If this has always been the practice, acting outraged because it's still the practice seems a little silly.
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This doesn’t make them unethical. So tired of people
Not understanding the process so they spout stupidity. In the holder their assessment was that it was not definitely worthy of crossing so they rejected it. Common sense would tell A rational thinking person that it’s harder to see an entire card in a holder and since they can’t put it back in the other companies holder they have to error on the side of caution and only cross if positive it will cross. This isn’t unethical but smart business. It’s not their responsibility to cover for your laziness and it’s not their fault you don’t understand the process fully. But hey it’s net 54 so a good anti PSA conspiracy sounds like par for the course. Quote:
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Laugh of the day.....
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That was pretty funny. I needed that! lol LMAO! Mike PS I apologize. Maybe you have never had the thrill of seeing pack fresh cards pre-1950. I have and I still own most of them. The 4 cards I sent were the last of the 1948s. Most had already graded 8s or 9s so PSA was well aware of this "find". I literally sent them in small batches because I was afraid the post office would lose them! The cards I sent in BVG holders were BLAZERS. Hellen Keller would have given them 8.5s on feel alone (sorry Helen :). That was uncalled for. I understand because you have not seen the cards. They were dripping original 1948s. Sharp corners, pristine look to them. They almost appear oversized due to so many other 1948s being slabbed when I can clearly see "alterations" on alot of them that are out there. For PSA to not slab them showed me their true colors. I knew they were going to grade as 8s raw but it was almost a litmus test. You say I was lazy for not breaking 4 cards out of holders? That really made me laugh. You have a nice day Mr. Parson. Peace, Mike |
Thanks!
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Some more.....
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That being said I HAVE actually called PSA and upgraded a submission to speed it up, so, yeah, kinda. |
Money talks and Bull Shit Walks. If you have the money you can pretty much do it, everyone has a price, you most likely would too.
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Sweet cards! I wanted to complete the set, but I didn't! I ran into too many problems buying them and got fed-up! I don't have the Mikan card. Finding one with strong corners is going to cost a lot, and it'll probably be trimmed too! :D Like you pointed out, many of these cards came out of the factory over-sized and I'm pretty sure that some high-grade examples out there went through guys like Gary Moser! :eek: |
https://www.ebay.com/itm/37365748279...oAAOSwHHtg-aD2
PSA should not have graded this card. If you see any of them missing color, then they were post-factory cut. If you look at the scan, then you can see how rough the top and bottom edges are, and that's not normal. Only the left and right edges are supposed to be rough, while the top and bottom are supposed to be smooth. You really gotta' know your shit when you buy these cards or you're gonna' run into so many problems, you know what I'm saying? |
I still chuckle about the title of this thread.
Most people use PSA because their expectancy value is higher than their grading fees, discounted for inflation and risks of loss. Taking a highly simplified example, if you have a raw card worth $1000 and you think there is a 50% chance it will be worth $2000 after grading and a 50% chance it will be worth $1000 after grading, your expectancy value is $1500 less grading fees, inflation (while you wait) and risks of loss. Let's say inflation and risks of loss total $200, reducing your expectancy value to $1300. You will still pay up to $300 in grading fees (maybe somewhat less if you are risk averse, as most of us are) because your expectancy value will still be greater than the value of your ungraded card. I am sure there are collectors who have legitimate moral concerns about PSA but this is how many people, myself included (and probably PSA) view the situation. In sum, it's fine to complain about how PSA has "screwed" collectors, but that sentiment needs to be balanced against the value that PSA has created for collectors. And, no, I am not on PSA's "payroll." I have met Joe Orlando and David Hall but neither one ever offered me a dime. I do, however, have cards that are worth a lot more because they are in PSA holders. |
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My name is not "Mr. Chuckle." Please do not engage in ad hominem. It just makes you look bad. If you are not happy with PSA , I suggest that you use other grading services.
Edited to add: I think it's cool that you collect track and field cards. I love 20th century American ephemera from T206 to Warhol paintings. Good luck with your collecting pursuits. |
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They are still a small company $35m in a quarter is really peanuts for most businesses as is $10m operating income and the profit margin is nothing wild either. The premium the cards get over SGC which grades every bit as tough but has a much less checkered background is mind boggling to me.
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Again, I suggest that you do not use PSA if you think they do not provide a valuable service. I have personally stopped using them while this all sorts out. But I think the notion that they should not capitalize on the price premium that some collectors are willing to pay at the National for premium service is absurd.
You have a personal choice. It’s hot that hard. Do nothing. |
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you seem angry. is the value of your cards being jeopardized. |
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"I am sure there are collectors who have legitimate moral concerns about PSA but this is how many people, myself included (and probably PSA) view the situation." these aren't moral concerns. these are basic service concerns. bottom line you pay for a service they should attempt to deliver. when you say you are making a best effort and then you throw out a sidebar "to make a little extra cash" you are a jagoff in pittsburgh parlance. plain and simple. and if you defend the practice you are either benefitting from the nonsense or you are a nincompoop. |
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Don't let your anger towards the current environment cloud your love of collecting cards. Make your collection exactly what you want and nothing else.
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They are a small business that is experiencing severe growing pains and is struggling to scale up. This is a common theme in any number of industries. I feel slightly bad for those whose cards are stuck with them but they aren’t the only option. Their competition has mobilized and seems to be outflanking them these days but for many collectors it remains PSA or bust. It’s important to keep in mind that situation will evolve. They are going through an ownership change and are washing their hands of Orlando who will get a nice golden parachute. New ownership needs to be nimble and respond to the market or they risk falling behind. Despite all their missteps they still retain a good degree of brand equity in what still appears to be a growing market.
As for the original assertion that they have “some nerve” as my granny used to say doing quick grading in the National I think it’s debatable. Not sure if I’d say it’s flat out unethical but it’s hard to feel that bad for anyone whose cards are stuck with them month after month. This company has had issues for years now but their cards still get a premium. Whether that remains the case 5 years from now will be interesting to see. Those who submitted should have been well aware of the risks & upsides of their decision to patronize them. |
PSA is what it is because it brings the most money for their slab. That’s it. They could be the most unethical company in the world but it doesn’t matter when it comes down to what sells for the most, that’s why they make the most. Morals Ethics Ha it's all about profits.
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Ethics matter to a lot of people and if they don’t watch out their brand equity can further erode and their cards will lose value relative to other TPG’s. That’s how competition is supposed to work anyways and I think we could see that play out if PSG’s new ownership doesn’t play their cards right and get it together.
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Taking a slight tangent here, which seems to be a common occurrence in this thread so please bear with me :)
I want to primarily have my cards in SGC holders for consistency and I simply like the looks better. I am less concerned about the premium a PSA case carries with it since most of my cards are lower grade anyway. Anywho...to the question. Do you suggest I send my cards that are in non-SGC holders as is and cross-over, or break them out and send them over "raw" and take a bit of a risk? I just don't want to get into the game of having a PSA or other sent back to me again and then breaking out and resubmitting I'm less concerned with my PSA holdered cards, but more thinking of my GAI/BVG cards. I know a 1 or a 2 when I see it so it's not so much looking to try and get a upgrade from a different service and just have a consistent look to all of them. I like the protection the holders provide and they just show better. Thanks for any insight. It's been at least 15 years since I've sent cards in to TPG services so I know a lot has changed. Regards, Bill |
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There's nothing unethical about PSA offering onsite grading at National. The OP is comparing apples to oranges here. PSA is still offering walkthrough service online, so it's not as if they shut down everything. In addition, PSA and the other TPGs have always offered certain services and discounts at National that were not available to other customers. It's one of the perks of going to National. As others have said, if you don't like PSA, don't use them. You can use SGC or CGC. (Beckett's service delays are comparable to PSA, I believe.) No one's forcing anyone to use PSA. PSA's issues have been repeated ad nauseum on this board and other boards for YEARS. If folks are surprised by anything PSA does, they're living under a rock.
For myself, I still use PSA, and I'm happy with them. They've had one of my submissions since January. No biggie. I have patience. I still have my 15 card Collector's Club voucher that I need to use before it expires, so I'm planning another submission to them soon. As long as they don't lose my cards (sorry, Bobby and the other submitters there!), I'm good. I also use SGC and Beckett regularly. This thread obviously needs some PSA cards. Here are some of my favorites. |
Well damn, Gary, go ahead and drop that little bomb.
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ike%20drop.gif |
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