Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 2125278)

I disagree. Displayed art will evoke a reaction, even if you know nothing about the piece. Displayed art also tends to be large and can be seen just in passing. For 90% of the people the card would mean nothing other than the company spending lots of money, on a little piece of cardboard, that could have gone to increase wages or improve conditions.

Originally Posted by cardsagain74 (Post 2125650)

I hope the Wagner card outsells the Baltimore News Ruth (which, in addition to being a minor league card, is basically a team schedule made to look like a baseball card and isn't even part of a set).

The Babe should be on the most valuable card in the hobby, but not that way.

Why hasn't the M101 Ruth taken those reigns?

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2125447)

Hi All,

Great information and great thoughts and opinions from everyone.

Keep it going.

I think it has strong eye appeal and should challenge the $6 million dollar record of the 1914 Ruth Card.

I also think the T206 Wagner should have the record since as it was mentioned earlier it has been the Face of Baseball Cards for over 100 Years and will Continue to be the Face for a long time to come.

Originally Posted by mattsey9 (Post 2125532)

Does anyone know if REA is planning to display this card in their booth at the National?

Originally Posted by whiteymet (Post 2125026)

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!! :)

Fred

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2126451)

slow but steady it goes up.

$3.2 million dollars (before buyers premium) a little while ago

Interesting but does this or does this nor effect the rest of the market.

I mean we know the prices have spiked especially on high end items.

What happens to the rest of the market. Will it stay at these new prices or down tick.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2126541)

I don't think the price of an ultra elite card like this affects the overall market one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 2126547)

I think there is some effect. I think Honus Wagner cards in general have gone up bc of the popularity of this specific Wagner, especially ones with this pose- like tip top, e90-2, w600, e103, etc. I also think that t206 in general gets a bit of a bump. The card is a t206 Honus Wagner card - that rising tide should/could/is lift all Wagner items and t206 in general. As far as the market on-whole, anytime an elite card sells and gets press, it draws attention to cards, which ultimately impacts the entire hobby in general. I don’t know that it directly makes a 1983 Tony Gwynn more valuable, but it may cause a 40 something to pull out that shoebox and get back into collecting, etc….

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2126563)

Who knows of course, but my belief is that only a very tiny fraction of collectors are in a position to compete for this card, that it will sell for what it sells for reasons having little or nothing to do with the overall market, and that the rest of us aren't going to be influenced one way or the other by what it sells for. I don't buy the rising tide theory. Did the off the charts sale of the recent Jordan 10 affect anything? I doubt it. And this card of course is far far rarer. Just a sui generis sale to me.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2126895)

I don't think the final selling price will influence the average collector's spending habits. Will it move the needle on some Wagner issues...possible but I did not really see much ripple effect on the previous Wagner sales that took place earlier this year. I do think it gives elite collectors more confidence in the market but not sure the impact is the same on the rest.

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2126956)

Hi

I think all the big time purchases do have a trickle down effect. What happens is these big purchases

1. Creates excitement and buzz and creates News and publicity about the card collecting industry
2. Demand for cards increases at all price levels
3. As Supply declines because of both new collectors making purchases as well as when the high end supplies dry up the next level of cards becomes the supply that is available for purchase so people scramble for those thus increasing the value
4. More people are purchasing cards as long term investments so also taking cards off the market (just as collectors who had cards for a while are selling to make a profit) now these cards are bought and removed from the market place with new collectors/investors

Every Market Spike in Collections we have seen over the years had a market correction to a small degree but always higher then the start of the spike and then with time restarted to go up again.

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2126956)

Hi

I think all the big time purchases do have a trickle down effect. What happens is these big purchases

1. Creates excitement and buzz and creates News and publicity about the card collecting industry
2. Demand for cards increases at all price levels
3. As Supply declines because of both new collectors making purchases as well as when the high end supplies dry up the next level of cards becomes the supply that is available for purchase so people scramble for those thus increasing the value
4. More people are purchasing cards as long term investments so also taking cards off the market (just as collectors who had cards for a while are selling to make a profit) now these cards are bought and removed from the market place with new collectors/investors

Every Market Spike in Collections we have seen over the years had a market correction to a small degree but always higher then the start of the spike and then with time restarted to go up again.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2127054)

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and reasoning but, personally, I have not seen 2-4 on your list when a card like this Wagner is sold. Memory Lane just sold several elite cards that made headlines everywhere. I saw no jump in prices, etc as you have described. The excitement, imo, is limited to the excitement of collectors who can buy dozens of 50K plus cards or even as many 1 million dollar cards as they want. Prices and demand on those cards rise but not the rest of the market.

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2127062)

Perhaps you are right and I am not disputing that. However, every Ruth Card (even not his rarest or most famous) all seem to have jump in price during this spike in sales.
All the Joe Jacksons cards have also jumped dramatically.
Regardless of the grade of Ruth or Jackson and regardless of the Card they all are going for alot more then normal.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2127109)

Ruth cards have been very hot for over a year now...over and above their usual popularity. Honestly have not followed Jackson cards that closely. I was simply disputing that the market overall gets excited and prices rise over specific sales of elite cards. I think from the middle of last year until March sales of elite cards might have helped the market but the market was already flying. Since March prices overall have dropped on a huge portion of the market and elite sales have not impacted those drops from my pov.

Most people cannot afford to spend 100K on a card let alone spend 10K on a card more than once or twice . If those $100K+ cards are climbing so be it but it is not trickling down from what I am seeing. Not in the least.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2127110)

I think the most one could say is that sometimes there is some very temporary FOMO from seeing big sales, never across the board though or in most sectors of what people buy. And if Ruth prices are up, I think that's explained by a genuine increase in demand, not by seeing a spike in one or two sales and a trickle down effect. I would argue it's the other way around, that the high sales are the result of increased demand in the first place.

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2127146)

Hi Peter and Chase

Thanks for your thoughts on this. Some interesting and diverse ways of looking at the market.
This is one of the great things about these threads and these Forums

either way I enjoy my Collection and seeing others collections and the chase in trying to get the cards we all want

Originally Posted by cardsagain74 (Post 2127188)

What stands out to me is that it looks like this Wagner is crease (and maybe even wrinkle) free, and wondering just how much people will pay up for such a rare chance to get their hands on a clean one. Especially at this point in the marketplace.

I'll guess 7.5 million, but wouldn't be surprised if it pushes 10

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 2127215)

The card definitely has creasing to the right of Wagner's face. I agree with your pricing. I think it will break 7 million and I wouldn't be surprised if it breaks 10. This is the best card to hit the market since the 5MC Wagner. That card might break 20 million today.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2127165)

Just looked at your collection...very nice. Much to envy there.

Originally Posted by mrreality68 (Post 2127461)

WOW

For a Rare card there are alot of T206 Wagners coming up for auction

I just received an email from SCP Auctions that their next auction will include a T206 Wagner PSA Authentic

More To come

Originally Posted by ZenPop (Post 2127573)

lol... Time to break out a poster I created a few years back...

There wasn't a frenzy around bidding on this for some reason... and it has REALLY sharp corners!

https://moonaliceposters.com/wp-cont...nMavroudis.jpg