So I partially agree with this theory, in the sense that I think as the Mantle Age fans exit the hobby, more Mantle's,from all years, both raw and graded, will become available.

As the name and Icon obviously imply, Mantle is my main collecting draw. He was my Dad's favorite player. We started collecting together. I'm 26, Mantle died before I was born, but he's the reason I collect. Sure I've branched out to other Area's of vintage, but The Mick, is the main focus.

As it for being a "Grail" I think among the Post War section of the Hobby it would probably be, "The" Card to own. I do think it's a beautiful card but I would also agree that his 51 Bowman Issue is better.

Also his 52 Bowman Issue gets neglected by the guys that are dropping millions on his 52 Topps. I love his Bowman Issue from that year, and I look forward to owning one eventually.

Um my dad is 74 and far from dead or in need of a nursing home. He was a Dodger fan so he hated Mantle, but he's definitely of an age to remember Mantle's prime as a kid.

The thing that never makes sense to me about this side of the board is that it can't imagine a version of the hobby where nobody cares about a 52 Mantle. And at the same time, it is baffled when someone spends millions on a Trout.

The hobby takes on a different passion for different people. If modern is the future and Trout is king, you have to consider that Mantle may not have as much cache among people who chase Trout, Jasson Dominguez, Fernando Tatis Jr. etc.

Point is people always say "when so and so's fans die off the market for them will correct"

Almost never happens. Especially with the all time greats. That's why they are all time greats.

Its harder than ever to get into the market for these cards.

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I'm just baffled at the market--- tons of money on unproven guys....that's crazy to me. 5k for some Dominguez? Ok but I'll go get an early Mantle or 2.

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Well, that's exactly my point. If the preference is to spend the money on Dominguez you have to consider that the money might not be there for Mantle in the future.

Card is a DP. There are lots of them out there.

Absolutely!

And guys, please, let's not start the "when the boomers die" debate because it makes no sense. Most people who buy Mantles now never saw him play. Furthermore, who watched Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth play? And yet everybody wants their cards! Legends live forever!

It's not so much about boomers dying as it is where the taste of collectors is heading. The prior generation had a huge appreciation for certain players and certain sets. You cannot say that those interests will hold when the modern market is evolving so quickly and steers collectors away from those interests.

For example, and as a microcosm of changing hobby appetites, the complete set has taken a back seat to the insert.

It wasn't in an auction. There was no "out-bidding." The card was not for active sale. It took a big number to pry it loose, and it will be a bigger number when it changes hands again, I'm sure.

Rob Gough? I had to look him up.

I'm all for it, if you have the money and it makes you happy, enjoy it.

This $5.2 million sale for 52 topps mantle PSA 9 is great for the vintage market. Mantle and Ruth and other baseball legends should see their rookies and key cards escalate in price now.

Goldin Auctions has a PSA 8 listed now that is already at $555,000 with 15 days to go

Same thing here, my dad is only 59 and remembers watching Mantle in the second half/ end of his career as kid in the NYC area.

Imagine how much attention this has brought to his clothing line/company name.
In very short order, if he hasn't already, he will make his money back in spades.

I also like what it has done for the hobby. Any exposure is good exposure, imo.

Dale, I thought of the same thing (regarding the exposure for his company), and wouldn't be surprised if he writes it off as a marketing/advertising/PR expense.

All around, smart move to acquire it.

52 Mantle
 

Would it be impolite to point out that the 52 Mantle is a double print?

like the 52 jackie robinson...like the 33 goudey ruth batting...like the red t206 cobb. It seems to help!!!!

So that Mantle was brokered by a company call PWCC Vault Marketplace, I looked up the company and that company would store cards for collectors in their vault?

..... What??? this is something I don't understand... Who would do that? I think I would worry the honesty of that company more than I would worry the safe deposit box of my bank go underwater.

PWCC? Never heard of em?

I heard of PWCC before and I know they accept consignments and all that. I am also aware of the pwcc/psa scandal. I just didn't know they do this kind of "vault storing" stuffs, so shady to me especially with that scandal in mind.

Yes, it is very impolite to say that the market will not skyrocket forever, that the Mantle was not a steal at that price, or in any other way question these investments. Perhaps after you gain some experience in this arena you will realize this.

Could not agree more! But this transaction will pump the value of 8s to one million$.

Yes, the card is a double print, but what is the total population of the card as compared to the current demand? I think there are something like 2000-3000 graded. Let's say the total population is 10000 cards and that may be a stretch. Obviously that is a very small amount of cards to supply such a huge demand and I don't see the demand going down. The 1952 Mantle is not just a baseball card. It is a piece of Americana and is pursued by both collectors and noncollectors alike.

Just imagine what the card would be worth if it was of the greatest Yankee center fielder ever, instead of the second best.

This is exactly what I was thinking! Most rich guys buy these big cards and want things to be hush-hush. Not this dude. He knows that the market is on fire now and the media has been taking a lot of interest in these big sales, and so he used this as an opportunity to promote his clothing brand - very smart!

I agree that Mantle prices aren't going to tank just because his old fans won't be alive anymore, but once they're gone the relative prices will more closely reflect the assessment of impartial younger generations who will regard Mays as the better player.

Mind boggling - over 1400 graded by PSA (9 cards that are graded 9 or higher). That doesn't include the SGC graded cards.

Over $5M for that card? Where does that put the PSA 8 Wagner?

I think I could have found a better way to waste that much money. Perhaps a few million bucks to Jeff Bezo's GoFundMe page when he was getting divorced...

Could you imagine if someone like Bezo's got a bug up his ass to collect nothing but the most popular highest graded stuff. He'd beat down every bidder and then the prices would look even more inflated than they are now.

Respectfully diagree. The Yankees are the premiere franchise and he was the face of them for two decades. There is also the "what if" factor. What if he would not have been so injured and what if he would have taken better care of himself. There is some mystique around him that adds to the value of his stuff.
He was also 3x MVP in the golden era so many would argue about who is better between he and Mays.

Hee Hee, nice one, Jay. Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio...

Speaking of DiMaggio, I imagine most collectors who saw him in his peak years 80 years ago have gone to that REA auction in the sky. Yet we haven't seen a waning desire for his items. To assume this will happen with Mantle is probably wishful thinking at best.

I feel like there’s a bunch of salty hot takes in this thread.

Why? Shouldn’t we all be happy the industry is booming and buzzing like this.

I am.

Vintage Names
 

I'm not a Yankees fan, but Ruth and Mantle are household baseball names...known by name better than some U.S. Presidents. Heros of their times and on winning teams. We all know names like Wagner any Musial but the majority of Americans don't. This is why cards with household names may appeal to investors like this outside of the hobby. Safe.

My favorite part is it being called a "waste of money". Buying an extremely prized and established collectible that could easily keep gaining ground....that's just tossing your $ in the sewer :rolleyes:

Or the Babe

Agreed. How many board members remember watching Cobb play as a kid? Wagner? Gehrig?

I think Mantle collectors will be fine in the short and long term.

Yeah a bunch of salty dogs on the board. Many years ago when this was a hobby, it was nice to be able to obtain a card without having to get a second mortgage or feel bad for hiding it from the wife (ok, so we used to do it then, also).

With the evolution of card grading for the hobby came an escalation of prices because of the flip/label number game. Sure, the population is low at the upper ends of the scale but those prices also impact pricing at the lower end of the scale and thus there is an impact on a lot of collectors.

I still think of collecting as a hobby rather than an investment. I would hate to think that my pleasure in having/owning a card is diminished because it dropped in value. At that point, I'd just quit collecting this stuff.

For the investors in this hobby, enjoy the ride. If it all comes crashing down and you don't care about the reduced value, then you'll probably figure out that you're truly a collector a heart.

Prices like this scare me, as a collector, because I worry that I am going to be shut out of a whole range of additional cards due to price increases. I've wanted a 52 Mantle for a while and with this price on a 9, what's a 2 going to cost? Should I drop $20K-$30K for a beater now, just in case? Not just Mantle--look at the 1952 Topps Robinson lately. My beater is a four-figure card now. I questioned spending $700 on a PSA 3 1954 Aaron a few years ago but I did it; now a $3,500-$4,000 card. I got so frustrated with pricing in the late 2000s that I stopped collecting baseball cards almost entirely and shifted to the other sports and to baseball ephemera because they were cheaper. It feels like it is happening all over again. That's why I cannot applaud the latest, greatest sales.

Here's a thought -

To continue a hobby there has to be new "hobbyists" that also want to collect these cards that are now becoming less and less accessible to the average person because of price escalation.

Fans of the game will just say NO to collecting cards because how much fun is there trying to collect stuff that you can't afford and can only have a few examples.

At some point the only people that will be buying expensive cards are investors that usually have a short attention span. Then when those investors get bored or see the next investment opportunity they'll be off to investing in graded Pez dispensers. Someone is going to be left holding the bag because the smart investors will have already bailed out in time to ensure they're not left holding the $5M Mantle. Sadly the collector/hobbyists that "invested" in the cards will be crying about how much they lost when the card bubble burst.

Now it's time for someone else to write a quick paragraph on how these investors retired early because they invested wisely in cardboard images and how these values will continue to rise and entice more people into buying cardboard instead of using it as a shelter to sleep in.

Totally agree! I was perusing an old "traders speak" rag the other night from fall 1980. I was heavy into collecting at this time...but mainly 50's-present.
There were no fewer than 5-6 52 topps mantles available for sale or through auction...ex-mt copies advertised for around 3K...lesser ones in the 1K range. The prices were out of my reach then...just as now!!!

I've passed on so many cards the last 5-8 years that held in the maybe $1500 and less range...and were always available on ebay...ruth strips...goudey ruths...cobb dietsches...joe d's...gehrig/ruth exhibits...and t206 cobbs...they were everywhere all the time!!!!!!

Now they're hoarded in "portfolios!"

In the 40 years since the issue of that trader speaks issue...the hobby has changed, A LOT...40 years before the issue...there was no hobby! What will it be like in 40 more years? Will all t206 cobbs be over 100K??? Or will they all be worth landfill?

Babe Ruth is sitting on top of tinder right now....notice how scarce a supply for the plentiful 33 goudey at auction houses? Let alone his more rare issues. All you need is a record breaking Ruth sale from his rookie or pre rookie card, and the slope of his already rising issues will further steepen.

Very few can have a Van Gogh, so others look for alternatives like Banksy or Pollock. So you can be in a situation where you have a paradigm shift in how we view card prices, thanks to TINA asset price reflation. When Ruth’s get priced out, people will turn to Gehrig... or Mays/Aaron for Mantle. And trickle down.

One thing about price momentum... can go on for a very long time, especially if the fed makes it so there are no longer any economic cycles to create forced sales and temper pricing. Add in the fact that you see inflation expectations finally inflecting, and you know that nominal rates are capped (fed + you can’t raise rates at these debt levels else you bankrupt us), reflecting compression into negative real rates, and you get an explosion in the price of non yielding alternative stores of value, like art, cards, gold and Bitcoin.

I dunno what most of that means but Babe Ruth cards are fun!

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...th%20Candy.jpg

I'm on a fixed income, there's only so much I can spend to begin with. Collecting cards is a Hobby, not an investment opportunity for me. I don't plan on selling or flipping my cards to make more money off of them. Would I possibly consider selling some cards to finance the purchase of another? Maybe but I'd still be upset about doing so.

These sky rocketing prices make some of my collecting goals downright impossible. I cannot afford to drop 15K on a PSA 1 1952 Mantle. I do not have that type of money. I love the hobby becoming stronger, but when we start looking at cards as an investment opportunity rather than just something to collect and discuss, I feel like we start losing the soul of the Hobby.

Josh, great post.

Something else to consider here is that there is more cash on the "sidelines" now than at any other time.

Depending upon what source is used, there is approximately 50 cents on the sideline for every dollar in the market. Ok, that 50 cents includes many things that may not be so liquid but the point is that people are looking to buy something that they feel will appreciate (over time) more than the dollar will.

Just guessing, but the rate of rise/escalation for cards might depend on where in this cycle things are. Has the search for "investments" just started? If so, then who knows what the limit will be. If people have already devoted a good portion of sideline money to other investments then wouldn't that be a precursor to a stagnant investment opportunity? If so, would that be enough to spook "investors" out of card board?

Fun game trying to predict the economy.

Bottom line is that for most collectors, the cardboard is getting too far out of reach. Heck, it might even be an interesting consideration do dump all of the higher priced "cardboard commodities" (assuming you're in them cheap) and look at a different avenue to "invest".

For me, I don't buy for investment. I buy because I like looking a pictures of mostly dead guys on old cardboard. If things get even crazier, I might think of liquidating and hoping to purchase it all back cheaper than what I sold it for, but that's also a crap shoot.

I bought a raw, centered 58 Topps Mantle All Star in NM condition this morning for $124.

It was loads of fun.

I also bought a Unicorn T-206 card last week that set me back a substantial amount and made my you know what pucker. Even though I spent a lot of $$ I think I got a good deal for what the card is.

That was loads of fun too.

It's all relative. I'll never own a 52 Mantle nor would I really want to (I prefer the 51 Bowman) but I can still have a blast collecting cards.

Find me one and I will...

All of this Griffey talk is making me want to rip this box.

You must be new here

And I bought a box a couple years ago of 89 UD just to rip for fun. They were only 100 bucks at the time. I did not get a Griffey, but still had 100 bucks worth of fun bring back childhood memories.

I agree with an earlier sentiment that Mantle fever will continue. I started collecting in 1991. Mickey Mantle was still being covered by Beckett, even on the cover. I knew who Mantle was before I knew Ken Griffey Jr.

But I also agree aging collectors' collections will continue to enter the market. Some cards will cause demand to fall, but some will not. I foresee the supply of 52 Mantle always less than demand.

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